I sure didn't know this could happen!

I guess if you do anything long enough, you'll end up doing it all but I sure didn't know this could happen. A couple of Fridays ago I look out at the coach in the back and see a liquid stain on the ground. Now, "I wonder what that could be" I thought. Go outside and I could smell the diesel on the ground. After the required F-bomb I go to try and figure where it's coming from and when I opened my house battery bay, out pours fuel! I thought it must have been coming from the generator supply side but that's dry and tight. A quick call to Prevost and they reccomended Kingdom coach in Mobile, which is close enough. A call to them and they say bring it over on Monday AM. I collect fuel all weekend with drip pans (less than 2 gallons lost total) and head to Mobile early Monday and leave it with them.
Kingdom was smart enough to know what they didn't know and talked to Prevost and a converter or two and determined it was the supply line to the reserve tank coming off the main fuel tank. To make a long story short, they pulled drained the tanks (and saved the fuel!!!) replaced the line that had a split in it, and put the whole thing back together in a matter of a couple of days. On top of that I though they were very reasonable on the bill. I was expecting probably $2500 bucks but it was about half that.
The best part was that I found a local company that wants to work on Prevosts and is very familiar with them. They operate about 15 seated coaches and really seem to know what they're doing.
If you're in the area and need some help give them a call at 251-660-2923. Scott Grantham owns the company and Gary Wise is the service manager.
I suppose the moral of this story is never be surprised about anything on one of these machines. Murphy's Law obviously has an office at Prevost.

Thanks for the post Steve! You are the second to have this problem this year. I'm just a little nervous about having a 86 bus with a reserve tank.

Steve, Thanks for the post. I didn't know Kingdom Coach existed, but I may need them some day. I am in Molino.

Ouch, so what do I look for and where? Being mine is an '84 with a reserve tank, I'm probably next in line. :(

Geoff

Roadrunner: Good to know there are other Prevost folks so close. Kingdom Coach is off I-10 at exit 10 north near Theodore but are moving to a larger shop soon. I understand the new location will be on Hwy. 90 south off 10 in the same general vicinity. Watch this space for news. I had been having GT&T do some service and they were okay, but Kingdom is a Prevost house, where GT&T is mostly MCI. The Kingdom people are looking for more coach work and my luck, at least on this first go round, was positive. I imagine I'll have them look at a few other things after the first of the year and I'll let you know how it goes. You know how hard it is to get decent work done here in Pensacola so it's promising to have another source.
Yankee: I wish I could tell you what to look out for, other than "when the fuel is running on the ground, then you might want to start there first". Honestly, I don't know if there is an easy way because the fuel line connecting the two tanks runs down the central channel and in my case, was behind and between the house battery bay and the generator bay. Not the most accessible location. I don't really know what all went into getting to the hose but I'm sure it was quite a chore. The hose itself was about 1.25" or 1.5" in diameter and looked like a wire reinforced radiator hose. No real pressure but plenty of volume.
I hope you never have to find out.

Steve,

How much is Kingdom's hourly rate for service?

I believe it was $75.00 per hour.

The framing under the tanks is bolted in, at least on our XL it is.

You raise the bus up drain the tanks and take them out from the bottom, I think:o. I have looked at this many times and believe it to be the case.

I have a fuel level gauge that needs to be replaced and I either have to pull the holding tank out of the bay behind it to expose the access panel or drop the tank. If ya got the ability to elevate the bus high enough I think that is easier.

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Originally Posted by Steve Cooper

I believe it was $75.00 per hour.

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That is VERY reasonable. I think that my local Chevy dealer's hourly rate is $85/hour!:eek:

Looks like you stumbled onto a good service center.

It is unlikely a fuel leak will develop quickly or be a large flow immediately.

I suspect there was a minor wet or damp spot, and if the bus is driven a lot just the dust and dirt from the road attach to the damp spot making it less noticeable.

Regarding fuel tank leaks however any mechanic should be spring loaded to pay very close attention to any indications of a leak because there is nothing mechanical to create a damp or greasy appearing spot near the fuel tanks. Maybe that's the aviation influence where we are instantly tuned in to blue stains (from fuel leaks), oil spots, or red stains (hydraulic fluid).

Steve,
Thanks for the info. We're a little east of you in Niceville and had no idea where to go for service around here. We're in Mobile all the time because that's where our son and Donald's family live.

Bonnie

Bonhall: Glad to pass along the tip on Kingdom Coach. I'll post here when they get moved to the new location on Highway 90. According to Gary Wise, they would like to develope more business in the motorhome market but really didn't know how to go about it. I had told him the only thing that travels faster than good news about a service facility is bad news about a service facility. He was all over that!
Watch this space for updates.
Steve

Steve,

What year and Converter is your bus?

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Originally Posted by truk4u

Steve,

What year and Converter is your bus?

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'97 Royale

Possible the new "cleaner" Diesel fuel contains a new additive that eats rubber. When they changed the gasolene in CA to a "cleaner" fuel in one week it ate the gasket on top of the tank in our BMW, ate the fuel line in our jeep and started a leak in the fuel filler hose in my Ranchero. Probably not related to your problem, but worth checking out. It turned the rubber to jelly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hhoppe

Possible the new "cleaner" Diesel fuel contains a new additive that eats rubber. When they changed the gasolene in CA to a "cleaner" fuel in one week it ate the gasket on top of the tank in our BMW, ate the fuel line in our jeep and started a leak in the fuel filler hose in my Ranchero. Probably not related to your problem, but worth checking out. It turned the rubber to jelly.

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Good thought but I really suspect a slightly less than perfect alignment in the hose and father time were more of a factor. The split was where there had been a slight bend in the hose and over time it simply failed.

I suppose we will all start to leak at some point as we get old.

When we were on our way to the rally in Pahrump I noticed the climb up from Baker was really getting labored. Usually a 6% grade is 35 mph even after a long pull-all of a sudden I'm going 20 mph and its down into 1st gear. You'd think fuel starvation with that problem and while at the rally and with a little help and advice I changed the fuel filter since it showed in the window it was time anyway. After completing the job and starting the engine literally no fuel showed in the glass-just a little bit and "bubbled" when running. Got advise from more than a few sources that even though it didn't look right everything ran so all must be OK. I was a little concerned but started for home anyway. Once I started climbing even the slightest grade there was a big drop in power-but simply keeping it around 55 mph on level ground I made it home without further incident.

Next comes the diagnosis. The window still showed literally no fuel. By now it would accelerate and then just go to idle rpm if you were making even the slightest turn. Again a sign of fuel starvation.

Step #1 was to insert a clear fuel test line into the system at the engine. Result-bubbles in the fuel like crazy! I knew something was wrong right then.

Step #2 would be to try a second clear fuel test line at the gas tank. Not so simple now. If you follow the fuel filler tube it goes through a small hole in a plate screwed into the bulkhead. After removing the plate and filler tube there is no way to get to the fuel line to test for bubbles. A larger portion of the bulkhead cover has to be air hammered out just to get to the fuel line. Now at this point all the advice gathered from my sources say the fuel pickup tube has fallen into the tank or rusted away at some point inside the tank. If the Step #2 test shows bubbles ahead of the test line my problem is in the tank- If the fuel is clear the problem is between the two test lines.
The test revealed clear fuel in the front test line and bubbled fuel at the engine-I've got some problem between the two lines.

Step #3 Well this isn't so easy. There's already about 15 hours into it by now and my only shot is to expose the fuel line inside the center of the bus. Its copper line at the engine end and rubber line at the gas tank. There has to be sucking air big time somewhere in between. You can't see anything so now its decision time. Do I run a separate new fuel line-thats a lot of work and where do you run it-going under the bus with new rubber line would be really playing with fire. The decision is made to remove a holding tank just to be able to see where the fuel lines run (remember there is also a return line). That takes lots of time and when the tanks are pulled everything has been covered with insulation foam at some time in the production cycle. At least some of it can now be seen.

Step #4 Do I then tear out all the foam and try to find the source of the problem or do I run new rubber fuel line inside the center of the bus next to the existing copper line. I decide to run new rubber line front to rear. Part of the copper line was removed by cutting it and part was kept to support the new fuel line. About 15" of copper and the the rubber line to the gas tank was removed. With the piece sitting on a bench you could unscrew the rubber hose from the copper line with you fingers. About 50 hours of labor for a loose connection. At least it wasn't at Prevost although the shop that did the work wasn't cheap-but the diagnosis and the procedure to find the problem were right on the money (mine).

I've probably had the problem for some time because now it pulls the hills like never before. Never did have any fuel leaking that I could find.

And like many other projects I also found a leaking rear wheel seal (my first by the way) so I decided to replace the brakes as well. Also changed all the rear shocks and air bags since the wheels were off anyway. From prior posts I knew the shocks were surprisingly cheap. They also discounted the air bag purchase because of the quantity.

And remembering the recent tragic experience of one of our own with a blown front tire I also replaced all 8 tires with new Goodyears (I was a Goodyear retailer for 30 years so no Michelin stories please). It rides and stops better than it ever has.

In keeping with the fine tradition of my fellow POGer's two months later I came across what I considered a killer deal on a 45' Vogue series 60 and ended up buying it. So now I'm out big bucks on the 87 Marathon and the proud owner of a 96 Vogue-I now proudly have two of them to take all my free time and money.

Steve.....Hint, hint. When the guys ask you a question on what year your coach is, creat a signature with that and there will be no questions when you tell of your sojourns. Check out some of the signatures.

That's a great post Norm, until the part where ya sold it.

Sucking air is not a frequent problem but it does happen and it can be a pickle.
I had an engine blowing out the fuel filter gaskets and finally found the return line plugged.

Congrats Norm on the Two Bus Club. Good Post on the trouble and diagnosis.

The thread police are off for Christmas so I will ask -- When is the next Oyster-Fest in Mobile?? Anybody got dates down for April?? I am hongry -- about it?

Steve, we had the same problem with our 97 Royale. Look at our post under Busted Knuckles Category on 9-15-07. Ed and I were really stunned with this problem and had no idea where it came from when we found it. So, we know how you felt.
Sandy