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I just learned somthing a short time ago....I had called Country coach and inquired about my coach. The guy on the other end said that my coach was a 1986 chassis, like I call it on the signiture. But he said it had 40K miles on it when it was sold to the first owner, it was a show coach that year. He said it was sold in 1988. Question.....does that make my antique coach a newer coach? do I need to quit looking at the newer bus's?
Hi Dale. As you know, the chasis date preceeds the converter date, usually by one year. However, I have heard some converters will change dates on Conversions to a later date. Beats me how that works.
The Converter has the authority to issue a MSO (manufacturers statement of origin)therefore the year can be adjusted by the converter.The Prevost serial # has a date in it and that is the important date.
Prevost Car stamps the month and year on the chassis in which the engine is installed in the shell.
From this moment, the shell is completed and either shipped to a converter or may be in inventory at Prevost until it is allocated to a converter. From that time, the conversion may take anywhere from six months to a year before it is actually completed and ready for the road.
It is the converter's responsibility to title a coach in a given year. Generally speaking, it's about a year's difference between the chassis date and the titled date.
If the dates are a lot more than that, buyers should be able to get a good explanation from the converter as to the reason for the discrepancy. If you are not satisfied with the explanation, keep walking.
Show coaches often have more miles on them than those which have just been converted. They may have been used to promote the converter's work at a number of locations. This isn't an altogether bad thing. Any new kinks may have been worked out and most converters are going to put their best work in a show coach.
Dale - Yippie, you just moved up 2 years (in your own mind).:p
This conversion vs Prevost chassis year can be a real problem. My 97 Marathon had a 96 chassis and when the serial number was run through the DMV in Montana, they insisted it had to be titled a 96, regardless of any prior state title. It took an Attorney and a Police inspection to solve the problem, but the officer really didn't know what he was looking for, so he verified the VIN to the previous state title and wrote it up as a 97. If he was to look at the Prevost label in the engine compartment, it clearly said 1996 and then I really would have be up s--- creek. They didn't care about the MSO and Marathon couldn't provide a copy.
Had the same issue here in GA with the CC, they couldn't provide a copy of the MSO, but after 4 weeks of arguing and a trip to the Department of Revenue, they agreed to mirror the previous state title. They wanted to title my 2000 as a 1999.
I understand all states are different, but this could be a major financial hit for someone by losing a model year.
In the very early 90's this topic came up at one of the seminars at a Prevost Proud rally.
Converters would title the coach based on their interpretation of the model year with no regard to the coach serial number. Apparently this would have never become a problem or issue until somebody started questioning what is actually the model year of the coach. Bill Campbell who at the time was a part owner addressed the issue from the Prevost perspective.
Bill stood in front of the assembled masses and stated that it did not matter what model year the coach was titled because all Prevost was interested in was the Prevost model year based on the serial number. He then passed out the Prevost model year serial number codes. He went on to state that when parts were being ordered, or when Prevost was writing a work order they would use their build date to list model year. To say that created a fire storm would be an understatement. Guys with titles that said 1991 were irate if their coach serial number was for a 1990 shell.
As JPJ explained the converter makes the decision, but it sure took a lot of talking back then to get everybody calmed down and to stop feeling they had gotten screwed.
So, this brings up a question. I assume that you register with DMV using the chassis VIN number, as that's the only real ID number I've got?
Interesting that this happened, as National Interstate sent me a notice that they were going to cancel the insurance I purchased because of an "issue" with the VIN number.
It matches exactly the Prevost chassis number, but perhaps they don't like the 2002 Marathon as the title on the coach? The chassis is 2001. I've tried calling National Interstate 3 times so far, with no answer, and no returned call.
Ray
I'm insured with National Interstate and my coach is registered as a 97, but with a 96 Prevost VIN number.
No issues with either DMV or the insurance company. There must be another problem.
Finally got through today. Turns out National Interstate tried to submit to the CA DMV a proof of insurance. However, at this point my coach is not yet registered in CA, and it was rejected.
I was asked to call them when the bus is registered, and they will then re-send the proof of insurance to the DMV.
Turns out it had nothing to do with the title/year stuff.
ray
We ran into the same problem with the Florida DMV X3. They claimed that no VIN existed (I guess in the entire world). National Interstate was very helpful. They got a copy of the original invoice from the converter which included the chassis # and the VIN and finally got the state to accept it.
Since 30% of the people in Florida don't have any vehicle insurance and a sizeable portion of the other people shouldn't be driving any more, it's a good thing to have insurance in the state. :D (This comment is NOT directed at Jim Keller).
I just checked our new "used" coach that is still listed on Featherlite's website as a 2006. On the actual vehicle title the "year" is listed as 2006 but the date issued is 4/27/05 and i have found some documentation from the original owner that looks like he took delivery in May of 2005. The Prevost manufacture date on the chassis plaque in the engine bay says July 2004.
I hope that some day when we go to trade this coach in or sell it they are still so liberal on their model year dates. 2006 seems like a stretch to me. I guess buyer beware.
Richard,A July 2004 manufacturing date would most likely be a 2005 model.Go to the Prevost serial number and the eighth number from the end is the Prevost model year.I think that your serial number is 2pcv3349x51010067 the 5 between the x and the 1 tells us that this is a 2005 shell.Jack
That doesn't sound out of the realm of possibility.
Most likely your chassis is a 2005 model, and being converted/delivered in May of 2005, they've titled it a 2006 model year? I think mine was very similar, although a bit older.
ray
Thanks guys i just wanted to make sure the salesman wasn't completely selling me a line. He was telling me this shell has the new heaver suspension but not the newer emission requirements that make the 04 to 06 shells the most desirable. I will double check the VIN tomorrow but what they have in the website should be accurate.
My Prevost shell is a 97 but was titled 1st time in 99. What is it?
That depends, Dan.
If you are ordering parts from Prevost they determine the model year from their serial number. They will refer to your coach as a 97 shell for example.
But your title is the model year of the coach because it is the converter that makes the determination based on its completion or when it was put in service. I have a 96 shell (serial Txxxx) but it is titled and registered as a 97 and it is insured as a 97, and if I sell it I will sell it as a 97.
Well Dan, I guess the age all depends who you are talking to at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by DANSS
In some states if the vehicle is ten years old or older the licensing is cheaper, there you have a 1997.
If you are talking to Prevost about parts and or their chassis information then its 1997.
If your talking to a bystander, all he sees is the 1999 stuff, so in your case (tell him it's brand new);)
If you are talking to a campground with a ten year rule you have a 1999 until
2009, at which time it becomes a 2000.
I think you new all along and just wanted to talk about it:).
I know it seems a stretch but I think that this is pretty much an industry wide tactic. Usually anything from April till the end of the year is a next year's model. Look at the converters now. They are selling units as 2008 when the shell was built maybe the end of 2006. We are in 2007 but it will be titled 2008. The same thing applies to your bus. Built in 2004. Delivery taken April 2005. Titled as 2006. Done everyday in the bus and RV world. I would not worry one bit when it comes to selling it. Anyone who knows anything knows how the game is played. When I sell mine I am selling a 2008 but everyone knows I bought it probably in 2007 and the shell could be as old as late 2006 or early 2007. When you sell yours you will be selling a 2006 regardless of everything else. You will be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by rff105
April does indeed seem to be an acceptable "change-over" month. With my recent 2002 Marathon, the delivery sticker inside from Marathon indicated May of 2001. And it's a 2002 ...
Ray
Millenium has a 2005 XLII for sale on their website and also on Prevost-stuff that has a 2002 Prevost shell serial number.This is the first one I have seen that is more than 2 years difference.The serial # is 2PCW3349621027951.Has anyone else seen serial numbers with more than 2 years difference?
Yes. In Kerrville there was a coach for sale listed as the current model year and the Prevost serial number and the engine build date were three years prior. There were three of us making note of the difference at the same time and were surprised at the spread in years.
Remember, the converter can call the model year what ever he wants until it is titled to the first owner.
That is out of hand and should be illegal.
I agree with you Joe,but as Jon said the converter has the power to title it when he sells it the first time.The converter can issue the MSO with any year on it as long as the DMV will accept it.The opposite of this coach is a Royale XLII on ebay that has a 2000 shell and is described as a 2000 Royal,and it doesn't have rivets,why would Royale not title it as a 2001?