Orphan Coaches

Ok, there are some pretty good deals out there on coaches from some of the now shuttered convertors. Just curious for input from those of you who own one, have owned one, or worked on one about:

1. Country Coach
2. Royal
3. Vantare
4. Angola

My preference is to go with a Marathon or Liberty, but there are lots of nice looking examples of some of the above available. General comments about orphan coaches appreciated as well as specifics relative to:

• quality of conversion
• complication of systems
• service folks still around who know systems
• parts availability in future

Thanks!

1. Vantare - Featherlite Vantare' H345

• quality of conversion - each converter has put their "touch" on the process. They all do things to differentiate themselves. Some things work out well and others end up being changed in later years. I am satisfied with most things on my coach. I believe that the things I am not satisfied with are the result of deffered maintenance by previous owners and age of the coach.
• complication of systems - It takes time to understand what is there. It takes additional time to be able to understand what is there and to be able to dissect it into individual systems. Once you are to that point, things seem to get a bit easier. My opinion, they all do exactly the same thing but there are always a lot of right answers.
• service folks still around who know systems - if there is a resource out there, someone on POG will be able to point you in the direction you need to go.
• parts availability in future - My opinion is that the parts-for-systems issue is independent of the converters. The converters are just systems integrators. They get their systems from other manufacturers. The only thing that might be an issue is converter specific components availability. For most everything I have worked on, I have not purchased a single part from Featherlite/Vantare'.

The thing to make sure is that you get as much converter documentation as possible and, as is well stressed on POG, maintenance records.


I hope that helps a little. I'm sure you will get good answers shortly.

I can only comment on Royale

1. quality of conversion
Good wood work, pretty standard floor plans, not real fancy. Not very glitzy. I guess compared to Liberty, I would call it plain Jane, livable. Not meant to be a bad comment on a Liberty. Just a lot different "look" inside.

2. complication of systems,
On my 1999 all systems are very simple. Standard industry parts, no fancy computers, easy to change things around. I have not found anything that scares me.

3. service folks still around who know systems
Royale Phoneix http://www.royalephoenix.com/
All most any good Prevost / converter shop should be able to provide service. The systems are so simple.

4. parts availability in future
May be a issue for some things, but so far I do not see a problem. All parts seem to be normal industry things, nothing special.

Newer Royale's may not be as simple as my 1999. I have never really looked a newer one.

Gordon, you can take your bus to any number of places for service. Here's one example of a happy camper.

grantracy grantracy is online now
Senior Member

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Miami,fl
Posts: 103
Default Pleasant Experience at Millennium
I have generally had bad experiences at the various facilities I take my coach to for service. One of our members( can I mention your name here Jon?) recommended I give Millennium a try. In any event I made an appointment gave them a list that was prioritized by level of importance with the understanding we had to be out of the facility by the same day. Brian the svc.mgr ( I think) was personally involved ,got evrything done on my list except the flat screen and polishing the granite( dont ask, seriously he offered to have the vendor meet us at our next stop and do the polishing)and the bill was reasonable. I can recommend them.
__________________
Granvil Tracy
2000 Vantare XLV45, S-2
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When you think you've found the right bus, talk it over here or privately if your not sure.

JIM

I'm fairly new to these conversions (two years) but I've found that almost everything the converter does is "off the shelf" parts. The most significant differences are in the design of the systems, quality of assembly, choice of materials, layout, etc. I've seen coaches that are almost a direct copy of what another converter did the year before but just not quite as well done. A converter that makes 20 a year has a different set of standards than one than makes 5 or one that makes 70. I think the market is still a "you get what you pay for" market -- well I hope so anyway. I'm biased having never owned another Prevost conversion, but I sure like the things that Liberty does.

Since most POS motorhome company's have filed for chapter 11 or gone out of business and the conversion volume has been drastically reduced I wonder if the suppliers of various components will survive.If the volume stays at this level for another year or two I imagine many suppliers won't make it.It may not matter whether we own an orphan,we might be modifying our coaches when something breaks to fit the best available product on the market.

I have owned a 93 Marathon and now own 99 Vogue(prevost)
which was built by the Mitchell group who now have Parliment Coach Co.
I was, and am satisfied with both of my coaches. They have both been worked on at various places such as Marathon in Dallas, San Antonia Fl.
Prevost in Dallas , Jacksonville and Nashville, Parliment Coach in Clearwater, Fl.
I have been completely satisfied with the service I have received at all of the above places.
The bus I now have (99 vogue) is a tough well put together machine. I now have anything I need fixed done at Parliment Coach as I am completely satisfied with their service and the way they go one step beyond and support our group in POG
I believe that no matter what Bus you get, that there a lot of options on where to go for service. Best of luck in your search and don't pay an extra $100,00 for the name!

Like Dan, I have owned 2 coaches. The first, an 85 American, and now own a 95 Vision (previously Pacific). I have had good service from both. I have had them both serviced at Prevost and with no complaints. I personally don't think prevost cares who the converter is, they can repair them all.

As most of the responders to this thread have said, the components, for the most part are not made by the converter, but by independent suppliers, and assembled by the converter.

Pay extra for the name if you feel more comfortable, but I think you can make better use of the money, like a storage building, like diesel to travel. ect. ect.

The key to buying an orphan is avoiding a coach with proprietary features and systems.

If your converter has specialized computer controls you need access to technicians familiar with those features and probably the manufacturer of the components in the system.

Coaches like Royale that are built using off the shelf components and which lack sophisticated high tech proprietary systems are actually very valuable in the sense they will be serviceable for years to come.

The only difficult part in maintaining an orphan apart from systems is being able to match interior finishes or fabrics or certain hardware.

Thanks for the input.

Jon, any of the orphan convertors use proprietery systems in particular that you are aware of? Country Coach?

One more questions - I can't stand rattles and noise - should one expect any convertor to do a better job of "solid durable" construction than the others? I realize that may be somewhat subjective...

Thats why I love my '01 Thompson, for the most part..Stevie Wonder can fix most of the stuff. I don't know about the later models..Sid can chime in on that, they may be a little more sophisticated but mine is pretty basic.

Hi Gordon. I have read where Country coach does have some real 'one of a kind hardware' so definatelly speak to some POG members who own Country Coach.

Gordon:

I am pleasantly surprised at just how quiet my coach rides. If there is a shake, rattle, or roll, it has always been something that we failed to secure or cushion. It has always been something we put into the coach and not a converter or Prevost item.


On the other side, you take this big beast and run it down the road. Vibration and jolting translates to everything. So, I have found that for my comfort, I do a very thorough inspection of everything in my mechanical bays either before, during or after each outing. I usually find something that needs a tweak. I do this also because I am still learning the coach. For me this is a repetative learning process. Many times I go through the manuals on the components in a bay the night before I go through the bay.

Gordon,

CC would concern me. The part of a CC that is proprietary is how they integrate their systems and Prevost systems. Nobody else that I know of has that kind of interface.

Rattles are a subjective thing. Some folks can tolerate them more than others. Like Ed's our coach is very quiet. My previous coach was not so quiet. That was more of a testament to how the construction process improved over the years. We drove another coach one time and Di was seated in the living room and I couldn't hear the noises in the rear because the wind noise in the front was so loud, but she heard noises from the LR all the way back to the bedroom. We have been in the same converter's other coaches and they were very quiet, so it was likely something on that particular coach needed to be adjusted or resecured.

The kinds of noises are what a buyer needs to be concerned about. Rattles from a loose cabinet door hinge are easily fixed and can affect every converter's coaches. Creaking sounds or rattles from cabinetry secured to the structure of the coach are less easily resolved. I have heard of some cabinetry coming loose because it was secured only to the inner wall lining and not coach structure. Those types of noises are unacceptable because the crashing down of your wall cabinets is very distracting when you are driving.

Hey Gordon,

Before you buy a bus, test drive it on any road in Louisiana. If it doesn't rattle buy it!:D

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Originally Posted by merle&louise

Hey Gordon,

Before you buy a bus, test drive it on any road in Louisiana. If it doesn't rattle buy it!:D

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Quit beating yourself up, Tuga. A lot of other states have caught up with La. and several have gone into the lead. Have you been through Jackson, Ms lately?? You would think the state capital would have decent roads, but Interstate 20 through Jackson is just stupid bad. I've started running I49 down to I10 just to avoid Jackson. Texas used to have some of the best highways anywhere but that has changed over the years as well.

Thanks Ted (I mean Mel), actually I-10 from Lafayette to Lake Charles has been re-surfaced and it is smooth (all but about 5 miles of it anyway).

Are you going to OKC rally! If so, hope we get to park next to you like in Sevierville. Thanks for the heads up on other state roads. We are used to being last in everything in Louisiana; except the bad things and then we are first!:D

But you know, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else:rolleyes:

I agree with Rick, if you do buy a bus that the converter has quit- make sure you have all the manuals and get some phone #s so you don't get ticked off when you do have a problem. I've owned my Thompson for 16 months and put on 40,000 miles and only had a few minor problems and none that left me stranded. The best thing about my Thompson is I can get Rick Thompson on the phone at any reasonable time. I'am sure there are others out there that have the same service. I would just get to know the people behind the scenes. Also try to get manuals with pictures it sure helps. I sure you will have a good time shopping!!

I've had a Marathon and now have a Country Coach. I bought very little from either converter, because I get most things from other manufacturers. I got a full set of manuals with the CC and the Marathon.

My Country Coach was always serviced at Marathon and Prevost in Texas before I bought it. Marathon even did a major redo of the bedroom which involved matching the interior materials, and they did a great job. I think in most cases the "What Ifs" are worse than reality. Ya'll quit picking on the CC crowd!

Thanks Dale. I am very happy with my Country Coach and it has outperformed my expectations. With a little common sense and POG support most "what if;s " will be overcome.

Jim, I am convinced that reagardless who the converter is, the most important aspect of support for our coaches is the knowledge we gain from this forum. I can't imagine owning a Prevost by any converter and not having the support of the POG.

We've had our CC conversion for almost five years and have yet to purchase any parts from CC and tried once, 4 years ago for tech support (when they were still going strong) and said "*&%^ this!" They had little interest in out of warranty customers

If another POGGER cant help you fix it another converter most likely can. CC does a fine job with their conversions, not perfect, but what is. I have yet to see two coaches from the same converter that were identical. They are constantly changing vendors on products they use inside and frequently changing the wiring harnesses, so get a coach with a manual and a wiring diagram and its repairable!

I too am pleased with the Country Coach, for the most part. The weak link in the system, I believe, is the mother and daughter boards (13-18 daughter boards in total) that occupy that dark area ahead of the plexi-glass in the forward belly. Everything, and I mean everything for the house side of the bus run through one or more sections of that monster. Fortunately the boards were out-sourced and replacement components are available, worst case is to have the thing reverse engineered in case of real trouble. Also, whoever designed these things, was smart enough to fuse everywhere which, in case of an unknown fault, a fuse is usually the cause albeit they are sometimes difficult to locate and even more difficult to change.

What saddens me is that Mills Manufacturing Company of Junction City has ceased to exist....actually for several years. They were the manufacturer of the premier plexi glass shield ;) The shield that so many of you dream about...gone! Oh well, so are the famous clear plastic seat covers manufactured by Fingerhut in the 60's.....common now you all remember those! I do have a good source for curb feelers if anyone is interested!

John

I certainly agree with the general sentiment here that most things that need fixin' can be fixed with off the shelf items, converter non-specific. HOWEVER, I will say that I really enjoy the fact that I can call Marathon 24/7, get live help, and be talking to somebody on the other end of the phone that not only built my coach, but also has my specific coach information, down to the last wire and bolt, all up on their computer screen.

Having said that, and keeping in mind my well documented love for Marathon, I would not hesitate to buy a coach by a different converter if I really liked it. I think POG will help keep you on the road.

Good luck,

Adam

John,

Unfortunately, there will be outsourced replacements for the plastic shields as well, so we were not so lucky to see them go away with the demise of Country Coach.

Dang.

Jerry, You want one dont you. Go ahead, get one. No one will make fun of you. Your coach will thank you and the reduction of dents on the front will increase your " TRADE IN VALUE. "

I too am a happy CC owner. I would of course be happier if they weren't victim of the recessionary times and poor management.

Having said that here is my take on the Orphan thing. I would not be as imtimidated to purchase an orphan coach (as a newbee would be) knowing the knowledge and experience base that POG offers, and the best part-- its fun, and only cost 100 lew bucks annually. They are all on Prevost chassis so the house issues are the only concerns, they all have water pumps, water heaters, and refirgerators etc so the majority of the componets are not dependent on the converter. Outside of the mother boards on a CC why fear, POG is here.

With very knowledgeable folks in the business like Rick May at Parliament, or Troy at Liberty and I am sure many others-like Miles, A1, or Nick, we should be able to come up with Presidential solutions for any problem given enough time..

AMEN, Roger!

Give me my Orphan Royale any day,

Alek

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Originally Posted by Alek&Lucia

Give me my Orphan Royale any day,

Alek

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Talk to me Alek - there are a couple of very interesting Royales out there...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GDeen

Talk to me Alek - there are a couple of very interesting Royales out there...

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Which ones ? Perhaps I know them,

Alek

Alek,

I think that dog hair has you clogged. We need to quit jerking each other off here. Orphan coach is okay; supported coach is way better.

Having owned both, there is nother better than this;

JDUB - "Hello tech services, there is a clicking noise in the closet near relay #22"

Tech - "Go look under the passenger's seat and unplug the power wire labled 22"

JDUB - "Hey the clicking quit and I noticed the wire was bare and rubbing against the seat rail"

Tech - "Just tape or heat shrink it and that should fix it"

JDUB - "Great and would you send some sheep to the Krakman...."

However, this works too;

Truk4U - "Hello JDUB, there is a sheep sound in my (Marathon, Country Coach, Liberty) and my flashlight keeps shocking me."

JDUB - "WTF are you calling me while I am asleep in Libya?"

Truk4U - "I can't sleep cuz everytime I turn the lights off a mosquito starts buzzing."

JDUB - "It sucks to be you. Drink some more beer and call Jon."

Truk4U - "He won't take my calls anymore."

JDUB - "Call Sticky, his wife does the work on their bus, she'll help."

Truk4U - "JDUB, YOU DA MAN"

I have been very satisfied with my CC. All of the problems I have had, and there have not been many, are either Prevost or other vendors' products. As seen in the above posts, most CC owners are very happy with their buses while the non CC owners are the ones complaining about them.

I feel that with the large quantity of orphans in all brands and models of RVs, that there will be many small specialty service facilities opening in the future to provide service. The quality and ambitious techs will start their own shops to provide a living for themselves in the field they are most qualified in. We have seen a decline in manufacturers but not in total number of RVs. Those out there will still need service whether it be a pull behind or a Prevost.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GDeen

Talk to me Alek - there are a couple of very interesting Royales out there...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jerry Winchester

Alek,

I think that dog hair has you clogged. We need to quit jerking each other off here. Orphan coach is okay; supported coach is way better.

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Jerry,

Royales have better support now than before thanks to Glen and Dan from www.RoyalePhoenix.com


Alek

Gordon,

Don't forget the Vogue built by Mitchell in Pryor,Oklahoma. These are a superbly built bus with any service you need able to be done with complete satisfaction at Parliament. Rick May knows these inside and out including all of the wiring.

You can also have the Vogue serviced by Tulsa RV if you are out west. Both Carl West and Jerry Nadine worked at the plant and know these coaches inside and out as well.

Richard Beecher
2002 Marathon XLII 45
1996 Vogue XL 40

"I have been very satisfied with my CC. All of the problems I have had, and there have not been many, are either Prevost or other vendors' products. As seen in the above posts, most CC owners are very happy with their buses while the non CC owners are the ones complaining about them."

I have not been complaining about them, but I have been pointing out, and using CC as an example that there can be serious problems relating to the failure of some proprietary features. My only public comment about CC related to when they were in business and treated their customers like dirt. That was precipitated by the shabby treatment of Ray Davis but from the time we bought our first coach we saw first hand seriously pissed off CC owners who lacked support for their coaches. Insulting the company is not the same as insulting the product.

We can all acknowledge the chassis is well supported. The conversion however is another story. It cannot be supported by the converter if the converter does not exist or chooses to not be responsive. It is easy for me to target CC as the poster child for not supporting their product. I know CC owners do not like to hear that because it diminishes their value, but facts are facts. Ray Davis went through hell trying to get issues sorted out on his CC and that was when they were still operating. His final solution was to fly an expert to him, and compbined with two other CC owning POG members get a variety of issues on their coaches corrected.

Almost all of our coach conversions are 99% off the shelf components installed in the converter's cabinetry and interior decor. We don't need a converter to help us find a WW Grainger item. But for those of us that have as a central part of our coach operating system some proprietary devices or software we need a game plan in case that system has a glitch. My coach has proprietary programming for the PLCs that make all my internal switches function. If my converter goes away I have exactly the same problem CC owners have right now with the proprietary control boards.

Recognizing that potential problem is not damning the converter or the product, but is creating an awareness that in the future, if not now, someone, somewhere is going to have a failure, and when that occurs it has to be fixed. Getting it fixed may be as simple as finding the original vendor, locating a former converter tech, or reverse engineering the component. But acting like a coach working well today will continue to work well and ignoring the potential is dangerous. This group does have a high degree of expertise and those with CC conversions can form a coalition and gather what they need for the day when a problem occurs.

Those with coaches that do not use any proprietary devices or components only need to learn who made their widget and how to be able to buy that widget.

Good stuff here fellas...

Good stuff from the CC owners on your coaches. Good to hear how satisfied you are - some very good looking CC's out there.

Jerry, excellent perspective on the difference in being able to call the builder and get a quick turnaround vs. spending time chasing a solution.

Jon, the proprietary interfaces is what concerns me most. Perhaps that is because I am intimidated by circuit boards etc (hard to fix properly with an 8 lb hammer).

Personally I would feel much more secure in having a coach I could call the convertor hotline 24/7 for troubleshooting. However, great looking highly featured "orphan" examples for real dollars less are what causes one to incur this type of review. Sometimes the best opportunities incur some risk eh?

Alek, check out this 40' footer...

http://http://www.rvonline.com/single-ad.asp?Recnumber=43627&SearchMethod=1

And this XLII bunk coach...

http://www.prevost-stuff.com/2001_pr...terra_Bunk.htm

Gordon, You will know which bus is best only after you buy one;)

JIM

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Originally Posted by JIM CHALOUPKA

Gordon, You will know which bus is best only after you buy one;)

JIM

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Jim - so true! I am getting that distinct feeling.:)