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Well I`m new to POG , but have been searching the forum`s for info & what a great place. I`m in the market for a used 2000 to 2004 H3-45 DS and given the current economic climate I wonder how negotiable dealers really are. For example a 10 year old, average condition, low mileage with no records, $400K price tag. Could it be bought for $350K, $325K ? What are some good negotiating points, who pays for a pre-purchase inspection, etc ? thanks?
Z,
A couple of things to consider. First, most ten year old coaches will have 80 to 100k miles on them, so don't be affraid of that. Next, the price has a couple of variables; orphan coach or converter still in business one as well as overall condition. Deferred maintenance will hopefully show up at a PPI which you can pay for or you can negotiate the seller paying for given the right circumstance. If you buy from an individual or a dealer is also a fair price difference.
I would also consider the cost of new tires, batteries and some other misc rubber goods at this age. Lastly, if some of the systems are not working (tank monitors, AV equip, pocket door actuator, Webasto), don't assume they are an easy fix. I was told this about several items on my first coach and $5k later most of them were up and running.
Good luck and welcome.
Z, pay heed to Jerry's words of wisdom. Also try to understand where your head is in this process. If you are buying a coach you intend to keep a long time you have to focus on floor plan and systems because those are the things hardest to change so they have to be exactly what you prefer. If on the other hand you trade often your greatest area of concern is more likely going to be price because when you trade or sell it you want to take the least loss.
No matter what your focus however you need to get the coach that exhibits long term care. These are durable long lasting robust coaches, but like anything else they require maintenance. There has never been a coach put on the market in which the seller has listed as a feature "shitty maintenance". Every coach on the market is always listed as having excellent maintenance or buzz words like "Prevost Maintained". Unless you have the documentation for maintenance in the form of work orders, log books, invoices or the like that you can compare to the recommended maintenance schedule you have to assume you are going to be doing a lot of repairing or replacing and you need to factor that into your financial decisions.
As Jerry said the big ticket items such as tires and batteries are date coded so it is easy to factor the need or cost of them into your financial analysis, but there are many other costs hidden to those who have not done their homework on what constitutes routine maintenance or what the lack of maintenance can have on a coach.
You cannot buy a coach as you describe without doing a detailed inspection. You have to operate every switch, knob and control to make sure stuff works as intended. You need to listen to how often the auxiliary air compressor runs. You need to observe the coach over a couple of days to see if it has "the leans". If you are a gearhead and very comfortable working on things such as a Prevost some of the stuff I mentioned is relatively unimportant in terms of cost and the use of your time, but if you prefer to have others maintain the coach for you those things that are not quite right and in need of fixing can add significantly to your purchase price.
I am sure others on this forum will chime in with their viewpoints. The thing to remember is we are all different and what is very important to you or me in the purchase of a coach may be less important to others. Only you can make the final decision.
Welcome to the asylum. Ask a lot of questions. The odds are the more you ask, the more likely one of our answers will actually be correct.
Great words of wisdom as to condition and needs.
I would comment on the market place and believe it is still highly negotiable. If there is a $400M asking, there is nothing wrong with a $300M bid. Prevost motor coaches do not have blue book so it is very difficult to determine value. The beauty is truly in the eyes of the beholder. I would assume someone with a $400M offering is realistically looking for about $360M for their coach. I know that Tuga has some comments on this as well if memory serves me correctly.
Pres
Pres......check your PM's.
Z,
Welcome, glad to have you aboard. I think that the best method for determining fair market value is to chart recent sales. Where do you find recent sales: ask sellers and brokers. You would be surprised at how much info you can get just by asking.
Brokers (who want to stay in business) will tell you truthfully what a coach is worth. Remember they want to SELL; compare their quotes with their competition - this just keeps them honest. We have some great, knowledgeable brokers as sponsors on this POG site. Give them a call - they can help a lot.
Like Reagan said, don't be afraid to make a low offer - you may be pleasantly surprised. A seller who believes in his coach knows what it is worth and he shouldn't be offended when you make a low offer. He can politely decline the offer or make a counter-offer. If you love the coach and it has everything you like including colors it may be worth a little more than fair market value.
A few posts back, someone mentioned tire life and battery life. Rear tires should be replaced every 5 years and front tires should be replaced every 3 years, regardless of tread wear. Start batteries should be replaced every 3 years and house batteries every 5 years. These are averages, just a yardstick for you to have something to guage by.
One more thing: try not to let the seller see you grinning from ear to ear when you step inside the bus. It's a dead give-away!
Good Luck and happy bus hunting. Look forward to meeting you one day.
If you are asking if $400k is in the ball park for a 10 yr old or 2001 here are a few to evaluate:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmax73
No-slide
http://www.floridaluxurycoach.com/po...p?comments=295
Here is a d/s 2002 asking $299k
http://www.floridaluxurycoach.com/po...p?comments=258
Here is a d/s 2002 asking $329k
I'd think a 2001 d/s is going to be at $300k value w/ an offer 10%-20% below that. Of course depending on the other items mentioned above.
forgot to include the other 2002:Quote:
Originally Posted by gershwin
http://www.floridaluxurycoach.com/po...p?comments=260
Jerry, Appreciate the info. mileage w/ maintenance records doesn`t concern me as much as getting it to a reliable shop for a thorough PPI. Reading the archives here have certainly brought me up to speed considerably on many items, but I`ve still got a long way to go. I`m from a pilot background and am a perfectionist around system checks & maintenance,etc.
Big Thanks.
Excuse my ignorance Jon, what`s a PM ? Love your maintenance schedule check list. I plan on using a lot of it for the PPI along with a reputable shop nearby.
Thanks!
Tuga,
Glad to be associated with a great group of people who share such valuable info. Do u have a cost breakout for these items? Michelin website claims 10 year replacement for tires. What`s up with that?
Yeap, no grinning. Poker Face all the way!! These guys are not your friends!!
I have to also admit I don't know what a PM is either. I usually get confused with big words but I got shut down with two letters. I always take Jon at his word...now it is taking him at his letters.
Pres
PM is Private message. If you look at the top right of this page, you will see' Notification.' Someone is sending you a message.
Thanks Gary! I thought it was 2 Advail P M's for old poger's !!
Private Message = PMQuote:
Originally Posted by Zmax73
I thought because El Presidente's bus is always leaning over at the bus barn that Jon wanted him to do some Preventive Maintenance = PM.
PM in that context meant private message. The Pres did not have his email listed so I sent him a PM (private message) that he has thus far ignored. I can tell I am not wanted.
PM can be pre-menstrual, post meridian, prime minister, post mortem, or even Papa Murphy.
Post Menapausal?
take a look at Liberty Coaches stock # 693 D on their web site. Nice coach and will be delivered with our full PDI program
Apparrently our favorite government employee driving around on our tax payer's dollars thinks my coach leans over. What would any respectful coach do if faced with a vehicle parked next to it undercoated with cow poop. There are ways to save on undercoating maintenance but driving around the corral in a 45 foot Prevost is a little far out there.
Pres
You just can't hide money .........if you work at AIG!
Nice, but no slides. Tks.