Locked Out/Twice/Still Locked Out

Pam and I have our Bus in Juno Beach Florida while we get ready to head out for the summer.

Today we were doing some chores around the Bus, including washing the Bus. We had the dog (Miniature Dachsund ) outside. She was unhappy so Pam put her inside and shut the door. She went back to the door to go in and it was locked. I tried everything but it was very locked. I concluded that the dog had jumped up on the passengers seat and placed her little foot on the SMX pad to the right of the seat and hit the Door Lock (Air Door). I pulled out the ladder and looked through the window and there she was sitting quietly in the passengers seat.

I therefore concluded after a few unpleasant words that I was screwed, and the only way was to remove the front windshield. I proceeded to do so, with more than a little discomfort and with a less than satisfactory result I removed it cracked in two places, but in one piece. I crawled in and opened the door Lock (Air Door) and opened the door.

I than went about the process of placing the window back in the rubber frame and secured it so that it was water tight and would allow me to go to Prevost Jacksonville for replacement on my way out of Florida, could be worse I guess.

Got everything cleaned up, closed the bays and checked on the inside. I walked out side and locked the doors to go home. Pam said you forgot to lock the bays, so I went to unlock the door and it would not unlock, it appears that the Air Door lock had activated again, how is this possible???

What could we have done to have the air door locks activate without
anyone from the inside pressing the button.

Needless to say that I am back where I started from and will have to attack this tomorrow morning, what can I do?

I have never used the FOB, black #1, #2 buttons for security, do these devices activate the Air Locks???? Or do they just set the alarm.

I am sitting in my office with a beer in hand considering using a 10# hammer tomorrow, I could use some advice, how stupid am I ?? What am I missing here? Could my dog have set the door lock at the SMX board to automatically lock when the door is shut??

This really sucks. My wife said that we could have been in Montana at night in the winter, and I should be happy. I am trying to be happy but it is not working.

I did the air lock caper in a SOB. I let all the air out of the coach using a fitting in the air quick disconnect and was able to get in.

Another guy, me, different coach was able to go up through the fuse panel, pushed the transmission shift assembly up and out, and a skinny armed lady was able to hit the switch with a cut off broom handle.

Been there

Cycle the 12 & 24 disconnect in the engine compartment and it will unlock.

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Originally Posted by truk4u

Cycle the 12 & 24 disconnect in the engine compartment and it will unlock.

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Thanks Tom and Jim.

I think that Pam is small enough to crawl though anything, but I do not have any access in the Marathon Fuse bay to the best of my knowledge.

I will try the 12/24 volt shut off to see if this opens the locks.

the bigger question here is how can this happen in the first place, after I already got into the coach and unlocked the dam thing once?? Is there some type of memory or something that needs to be reset.

Tomorrow the dog gets put to sleep or maybe Pam will have me put to sleep, either way we need to get to the root problem.

Thanks again, and i will report back.

I'm also very curious about this. Let me know if the 12/24 volt idea works. I locked myself out once. And my 4 year old, locked in, saved the day. I parked the coach, cut the 12V and 24V off for an extended parking, went back into the coach, closed the door, hit the air lock, and went to sleep. Next morning, I woke up, decided that I wanted to move the coach, opened the door (no I didn't disengage the air lock, so it never locked), went outside to turn 12V and 24V back on, did so, went back to the front door and it was locked. Rang the bell until I saw my 4 year old's little eyes peering out the window. She followed instructions very well. Got back in.

That could happen to anybody!

~Adam

The touch pad unlocks the door in my Coach. One of the very first things the Liberty folks told me when I walked with them on my new coach was to always have a set of keys with me outside of the coach. I try to remember that one point.

I have ty wrapped a set of keys outside of my coach just for this reason,I hope that I never need them.

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Originally Posted by jack14r

I have ty wrapped a set of keys outside of my coach just for this reason,I hope that I never need them.

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I had a set of keys in my hand and a set in the car. The keys were not the issue.

Are you suggesting that the keys will override the "Air Lock"??? Or should??

When I tried to unlock the door I was able to unlock the dead bolt but not the "Air Lock" that the dog set.

After I went in through the front windshield and opened the "Air Lock" I thought everything was fine.

Wrapped up my work for the day, cleaned up and went outside and locked the door again, and somehow the "Air Lock" reactivated again.

How can this happen when I did not reset it?????

Keys won't help with the air lock.

On ours, the main chassis battery disconnect will disable the air door lock in the off position.

I do not have a air lock,I now understand the problem.

I have had the same problem...mutt steps on the air locker and there is no way in. :mad::mad::mad: I put a safety cover on that switch, I also cover it with a pillow..just in case.....and I keep the entry door sliding window slightly ajar and unlocked when the mutt is in the bus.

I managed to get in with a "slim jim" through the bedroom opening window but it took two forevers to do that. Lesson learned....keep the window slightly ajar.

John

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Originally Posted by flyu2there

I have had the same problem...mutt steps on the air locker and there is no way in. :mad::mad::mad: I put a safety cover on that switch, I also cover it with a pillow..just in case.....and I keep the entry door sliding window slightly ajar and unlocked when the mutt is in the bus.

I managed to get in with a "slim jim" through the bedroom opening window but it took two forevers to do that. Lesson learned....keep the window slightly ajar.

John

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Here is what I have learned.

Today I called Both Prevost and Marathon to get a handle on my particular Prevost model year and Marathon production #0533.

Marathon said that all I had to do was turn off the Bus 12/24 volt disconnect. This did not work.

Prevost suggested that I bleed off all of the Accessory Air at the door under the toll window, bottom, which air's up the Door locks Pocket doors, Slide Room etc. I did this and it did not seem to work.

I then asked Prevost about the following: I said that I have a FOB remote Key lock device. I have not been using it, but what if it was accidently activated. Prevost said that it might cause this problem. He said he would get back with the exact breaker.

While he was researching it I found the breaker in the upper Toll window door, CB122. I tripped it and dumped the air and turned off the Bus 12/24 volt power and the door opened.

The problem here of course is that I did all three together.

I did isolate the problem down to the Remote Key Fob locking system. It appears that because I have not used it since I purchased the Bus in Nov. 2007 while it was at Marathon Coburg and it sat there for several months.

Prevost suggested that I cycle the key off and on several times to get it working again, I have and it seems OK.

I have like John kept the P/S door window Ajar, have an extra key to all bays in my Toad, and will keep the dog away from the Door locking pad next to the passengers door, or at least protect it from the dog.

I am still not absolutely certain that the dog activated the Air Door Locks, she won't talk, even after water boarding her. Pam made me stop after 2 hours.

Really though I have not gotten a good answer about the Remote Key FOB and the Air Locks working as one. I do not think they do, but am certain that the FOB does, or did not work correctly.

The bottomline here is: Never ever leave the dog in the bus when the door is shut and there is no key outside or access to the bays, you are really in trouble then.

It has cost me a windshield, good lesson and now I know how to take one out, the right tools would have helped a great deal.

End of story for now. Thanks for all of the help.

0533,

Have you ever considered putting the dog in a kennel while you're out of the bus? May solve a whole lot of problems: potential locked doors, dog hair on the furniture, etc. We kennel ours. They can't wait for the bribe!! Milk Bones upon entering the kennel. All we have to say is, "Kennel." And they're in. We tried to leave our oldest Schnauzer free in the coach. He insisted on going in one of the other two kennels.

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Originally Posted by Coloradobus

0533,

Have you ever considered putting the dog in a kennel while you're out of the bus? May solve a whole lot of problems: potential locked doors, dog hair on the furniture, etc. We kennel ours. They can't wait for the bribe!! Milk Bones upon entering the kennel. All we have to say is, "Kennel." And they're in. We tried to leave our oldest Schnauzer free in the coach. He insisted on going in one of the other two kennels.

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If I did that I would have to leave Pam with her, it will never happen in my life time. The dog is in the will, I am not.

In all of this discussion I am still not sure exactly which lock is the one in question.

The Prevost air lock or the dead bolt in the door?

If it is the air lock that is giving grief it will not be opened with a key as pointed out by Truk, but will require as has been suggested the air to be released.

If it is the dead bolt, that is likely to be actuated with a key fob and the coach door key will work. Does anybody have a key fob actuated air lock?

Before Bruce gets in the kennel with the dog and Pam is there an answer? If it was the air lock there would be the unmistakeable sound of the air cylinder being engaged instead of the metallic "clack" of the deadbolt.

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Originally Posted by Jon Wehrenberg

In all of this discussion I am still not sure exactly which lock is the one in question.

The Prevost air lock or the dead bolt in the door?

If it is the air lock that is giving grief it will not be opened with a key as pointed out by Truk, but will require as has been suggested the air to be released.

If it is the dead bolt, that is likely to be actuated with a key fob and the coach door key will work. Does anybody have a key fob actuated air lock?

Before Bruce gets in the kennel with the dog and Pam is there an answer? If it was the air lock there would be the unmistakeable sound of the air cylinder being engaged instead of the metallic "clack" of the deadbolt.

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I am like a witness on the stand trying to remember what he say 2 years ago, but I am reasonably certain (lots going on) that the only way I was able to open the door was to bleed off the accessory air and trip breaker CB122. I do not think that the 12/24 bus batteries made the difference. remember that this is a 1998 XL45 Marathon conversion with the Key FOB Remote entry lock (not the keyless entry) with a strobe light security add on (bizarre feature), yours might be different, but I think this worked for me. The prevost rep who called after it was all over said that some Prevost's have a red switch inside the Toll lower bay as a cut off switch for this purpose. I plan to look tomorrow and will report back.

I know mine is older than yours but 12/24 switches in the off position unlocks my door.

On my 97 Liberty the Air Lock could be defeated by shutting off the Chassis Batteries. 12V was used to keep solenoid energized and air lock active.

When I got locked out because of Keyless Entry being de-programmed, needed key to unlock door.

Air lock can only be activated from inside coach.

Lee

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Originally Posted by wrongagain

I know mine is older than yours but 12/24 switches in the off position unlocks my door.

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Good morning Ed,

Are you saying that if your air lock door is activated from the inside, that you can make it open by turning off the 12/24 volt chassis battery?

That simply did not work for me. It was offered a solution by Marathon though.

Prevost said that the 12/24 would not allow the Air Lock to release. I could not get mine to open with the 12/24 off and the Air Locks locked. Prevost also said that they placed a "RED SWITCH" in the lower Toll door that one could pull/switch??? that would override the Air Lock, I could not find this switch on mine.

I also noticed that even with the 12/24 off my Remote key FOB would still operate the door, and it would even chirp., Sounds of locking and unlocking etc, but it does not defeat the Air Lock. Only after I tripped the CB122 breaker and dumped the bleed air did it open.

I plan to replicate this again by engaging the Air Lock with a window open and try to repeat the process starting with the 12/24, to the bleed air to the CB122 breaker until the door opens. I'll report back.

Lots you folks park there Buses with the 12/24 in the off position, is this not so?? Would this not defeat the purpose of the locking system??

Bruce, apples and oranges are being mixed up here because it sounds like your responses and your posts are talking about different systems.

Apparently some alarm or locking systems which use the key fob engage the air lock because that seems to be what you are describing. If your key fob does engage the air lock as it sounds you need to get to the bottom of what it takes to disable the air lock.

You are also apparently mixing up house and chassis systems. The air lock is almost always a Prevost feature and it is powered by aux air and controlled by a chassis powered solenoid valve. Your description of the situation however leads me to believe your converter made that lock a part of the alarm/locking system so there is likely crossover between the house and chassis.

Generally, when we have a key fob type locking system or a key pad locking system or a combination of the two it is a house powered system, and it actuates the deadbolt. This system is unaffected by the removal of power to it and the only way to unlock the deadbolt is to use the key in the door, use the key fob, or to gain access to the coach and release the deadbolt from the inside by pushing a button or turning the small knob on the door.

If your air lock is part of the house and part of the chassis you need to understand clearly what you are dealing with because neither Prevost, POG members and possibly your converter are going to understand that you have something weird. The advice you have already been given in this thread by POG members and by Prevost have been correct relative to what is a normal locking arrangement.

Bruce, FWIW I have #417, and the keyfob driven locking mechanism has nothing to do with the air lock. It engages the deadbolt.

Nice touch on the waterboarding ;)

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Originally Posted by jello_jeep

Bruce, FWIW I have #417, and the keyfob driven locking mechanism has nothing to do with the air lock. It engages the deadbolt.

Nice touch on the waterboarding ;)

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Ok JJ, then if you were locked out of your bus with the Air Lock on, how would you regain entry if you had keys to all doors and bays???

Bruce.....

LISTEN UP! The air lock on just about every single coach I have ever heard of is disabled as has been described in this thread.

There is not a key in the world that will open the door if the air lock is engaged.

If the dead bolt is engaged messing with the air lock will not unlock the door. Two separate locking systems that you are making sound like they are somehow combined or intermixed on your coach. If they are mixed together you have a unique problem that is totally alien to anything ever previously discussed. You need to sort out exactly what you have.

That is what it does on mine.
I never tried them separately, but I posted the question here at one point,...
If I am in the coach and I drop dead in the bus with the air lock on, does my wife call an ambulance or does she call a wrecker to rip the door off the bus.
The answer was to shut off the 12/24 switches.
So I had her go in the coach and lock the air switch.
I then tried to open the door to be sure it was locked, it was.
Then I went back shut off the 2 switches and the air lock released by the time I walked the 40 ft back to the door and was able to open it normally.
thats my story.

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Originally Posted by wrongagain

That is what it does on mine.
I never tried them separately, but I posted the question here at one point,...
If I am in the coach and I drop dead in the bus with the air lock on, does my wife call an ambulance or does she call a wrecker to rip the door off the bus.
The answer was to shut off the 12/24 switches.
So I had her go in the coach and lock the air switch.
I then tried to open the door to be sure it was locked, it was.
Then I went back shut off the 2 switches and the air lock released by the time I walked the 40 ft back to the door and was able to open it normally.
thats my story.

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Hi Ed,

If I die in my coach, my wife will have the wrecker truck take the coach directly to the grave yard and have both of us buried without a stop at the funeral home.

I plan to try your test 12/24 again today, with the window open a crack as I will be alone on this test. Let you know how it turns out. I probably will forget the window part.

Bruce,
Quit trying to beat the funeral director out of his fair share!!

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Originally Posted by Denny

Bruce,
Quit trying to beat the funeral director out of his fair share!!

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Denny, Good one !

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Originally Posted by Denny

Bruce,
Quit trying to beat the funeral director out of his fair share!!

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Sorry Denny, Pam is always trying to save $. I will have her take the bus to your home, but she will expect the POG discount. Just tell her the whole things on you, she never know that you kept the bus.

Just to add my experience, I locked the front door air lock with the switch on the dash. Our bus has 2 switches, one on the dash as well as one on the panel of switches by the passenger seat, that turns the air lock on or off.

With the air lock in the "locked" position, I then shut off both the 12 and 24 volt switches in the engine compartment. The door unlocked.

I then went back to the 12 and 24 volt switches, placed them back in the "ON" position, and the front door re-locked!

This had absolutely nothing to do with either the dead bolt lock and/or the use of the key fob remote.

I'm guessing that my Liberty is set up in a pretty much standard way as far as this issue is concerned.

Just wanting to confirm that the air lock can be defeated by using the chassis battery disconnect switches.

I should have mentioned that mine does that also.
Power up the 12/24 switches and door relocks

LOL, hell, I am not even clear on how I could get locked out of mine with an air lock, I don't travel with critters, and my arms are not that long :)

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Originally Posted by 0533

Ok JJ, then if you were locked out of your bus with the Air Lock on, how would you regain entry if you had keys to all doors and bays???

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Try this on for size Warren.

You fire up your bus after it has been sitting for a while and you have no air pressure. Unknown to you somehow your air lock button is pushed in.
After starting you go back out and close the door behind you to do whatever and when the bus gets sufficiant air the darn thing locks.:eek:

Gremlins......... they are everywhere.

So the only real fix is to keep the pax slider slightly ajar until you are on the road.....don't forget to reverse the sequence when you stop. It's either that or a disconnect.

John

Two solutions for the two problems as seen from the outside, might be:

To prevent pets , and or accidentally activating the air lock; Change out the flip switch for a key type switch. It is unlikely that a dog would/could turn it. In case you had a monkey or child, you could remove the key. :D

If you don't like that, then you might wire in an external key switch in the exterior compartment below the toll window. This would work to over ride the switch in the driver position.

JIM
;):)

Actually Jim is on to something. An owner could install a pair of switches in any spot known to him to lock or unlock the dead bolt and/or the air lock.

It could be located in the steer compartment out of the weather, behind the bumper or anywhere accessible if the locks were accidently activated from the inside by a child or pet. In fact I think Jim's idea ought to be picked up by the converters and made standard.

Then Mango and JDUB could vandalize everybody's coach.

But Jon, you could even go further and install fake switches in somewhat obvious locations..... while the "real" ones remain hidden.

Pranksters would have to spend a lot of time trying to figure out why the "found" switches did nothing...... or better yet, the "found" switches activate a screaming siren! Just to let the world know that someone is searching for a way in:D

I am having the windshield replaced this coming Tuesday at Prevost Jacksonville. They have both the passengers side window and a the rubber frame on hand for the replacement.

Question: Do I need to replace the entire rubber frame. Is it not necessary or would it provide a better result overall.

PS> I went to the Bus yesterday to do some odds an ends. Went inside and heard a noise. Located it in the upper passengers side cabinet over the entry door. It was the security alarm making a continuous loud sound. I had not armed the system, but when I opened the door there it was. I simply armed the door with the FOB and waited a minute and then did it again and the noise went away. I am starting to think that my problem is with the remote locking and alarm system. It seems to have a mind of its own, Next project I guess.

Bruce,

Check your voltage of your chassis battery. If it is only about 24V the alarm will think that somebody is trying to disconnect the cables, and it will activate by him self. I had alarms wired that way in my previous buses, and also right now in my 2000 Royale.

Alek

Rereading this thread makes me wonder if the air lock is there for security or just to hold the door tightly shut during transist? I have turned my air lock on at night, but my son and law had no problem push open the door to go out, much to my surprise.
Greg