I"ve seen something on e-bay...advice please..

Thanks for all the comments and insight on how to proceed.

There are several good lessons here for all of us, and especially for Viv.

I think based on what I have read, what I have seen for documents (Wire Transfer) that Viv has but one choice at this point.

I have suggested she send one more email and a registered demand letter specifically outlining her request for the return of her $5,000 deposit, her withdrawal to purchase, and a set time line for return of funds and finally a clear indication she will retain council, and file suit asking for the $5,000, interest, attorney's fees, court costs etc. Once this has been received and if nothing comes from it she will need to secure an attorney in Florida to address the suit.

I do feel that there is still something very wrong with the transaction. I have never offered to purchase a vehicle from anyone without knowing how to make contact with whomever is in control of the vehicle so that I can make arrangements to see it. The mere fact that Steve is unwilling to connect Viv with a name, provide a phone number or offer to allow her to inspect the bus makes me suspicious indeed. And if Will's post is referring to the same bus there might well be a good reason why Steve Katz has not been forth coming about the owners contact info.

Jon suggests that he was able to make contact with Steve and get info on the bus, Jon can you gain access to the owner through Steve so that Viv can see the bus. Maybe we can find a member near 139 Old Trail Rd in Duncannon Pa which is very near Harrisburg Pa about 10 miles north of rt. 81 who could Eyeball the bus and let Viv know the outcome.

Viv lives in Nj. which is not too far from this location. It might be worth a visit to see the bus and make sure it even exists. My guess if Will's info is correct that the bus is not in the same condition as the pictures represent it to be and maybe by taking a look see Viv can officially respond, there is some risk involved with this approach, but it will require that Steve at least give her a contact name, phone number so Viv can set a time and place for a meeting.

There is no language in the Wire Transfer document that sets a date for closing, for the remaining $125,000. there is no language that says she cannot not view the bus before completion of the sale, that Viv cannot withdraw from the purchase, that she is required to have insurance or that she must pay the remainder in full or over 20 years, or that it refers to any legal language to support his retention of her deposit. The laws of Florida provides a seller who does not want to complete the transaction some latitude. I think she could actually make a case that Steve is libel for damages for not providing her access to the seller at this point and should not be offering the bus for sale to others while there is cloud over the transaction.

If Steve does not do this then there is surely something wrong here, also Steve needs to supply Viv with a contract for sale between the parties, especially the party who is actually selling it, Steve is not the owner to the best of my knowledge and therefore cannot declare that she has made a purchase and if she asks for her money back declare her in default. I really think she has a case here but it will take time. The wire transfer does create some grey areas but the transaction as a whole looks fishy and the courts will be able to see through this, unfortunately Florida is a magnet for this type of stuff.

Wills info is on that 40ft XL CC that is listed for 49k down in Florida.

That vandelizm that was done was repaired to some degree cause the guy I know who looked at it would have for sure said something. I also noticed that bus is listed on heartland coach and the photos difference in condition looking at the photos on Prevo Trader is obvious.

I run to the computer every day now for my dose on this story. It just gets crazier by the day.

I guess every coach has a story or history.

Tully

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[QUOTE=However, I sent him an email expressing interest in the Liberty and asking where and if I could see the bus. I got an instant response with no request for money. .[/QUOTE]
He's not going to try to cheat you Jon...You are a man of consequence...
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Hi Jon,

Did Steve give you a place to go to see the bus..and the name of someone to meet you there..!!!!

If so why didn't he tell me to go see it..??..and meet someone there instead of demanding I get Ins. and Pay in full for the bus then "Drive it Home"...as his way of allowing me to see it...!!! Unbelievable...

If so and I find out where it is and who to see to gain entrance to the bus, drive it, and have it checked over I would still go immediately...!!!! and now also try to get Joe C. to meet me there...to check the things I don't understand but he would...I only want to make sure it's laid out the way he said it is, and the pictures show...drives right to me...and as he said is in good condition..."Perfect were his words to me"...

Mention was made of my communication with other dealers...I would like to know what was said about me so I would have the the opportunity to refute if untrue and defend myself...

I have been asked for deposits to see a Prevost before but never made any because I wanted to see a bus FIRST...I was so sure of this one I made the deposit...but 9 years ago I had legally signed papers and agreed to buy a bus in Houston Tx.. www.motorhomesusa.com I made a deposit of 30K on a 65K Diesel Bus..to pay cash for and flew out there to buy it..It was obvious the pictures on his website were taken when the bus was NEW...what I found was a pigsty...that was top heavy when it went around bends..I refused to buy it...and in the end was literally forced to lose 30K or buy a diff. bus from that dealer...Against my will I chose an 87 Fleetwood Limited...my deposit was full price for it and I drove it home..

I have missed one other Prevost bus I'm almost Positive I would have purchased if I had seen it...thru' chat with another dealer...One Rod Daniels of Heartland Coach in Fl. also...who also went way out of his way to get money from me before letting me see the busses in question...I never sent him any money...but I was ready to when my Bank first approved the Home Equity Loan I had been seeking but the morning I told Rod Daniels the loan had been approved he sent me a message back saying the bus had been sold thru' another dealer..!!! This is that bus...>>>and the the Letter I sent to my bank so they'd know why I wouldn't be wiring the deposit...>>>>>
************************************************** ***
{{{{{{{ Original Message -----
From: Vivian A. McGraw
To: Melissahill65@hotmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:19 AM
Subject: I lost the one in Al. Rod Daniels didn't have the heart to call me back.

Hello Melissa,
I just called Rod at Heartland about the below coach I've been negotiating to buy for months..
http://www.heartlandbus.com/VehicleD...m?StockNo=1470
He told me the other person got it and he didn't have the heart to call me and tell me...after I'd waited for his call back for over an hour this morning sitting on the edge of my chair...
So if I'm to realize my dream I must start all over again...I just can't give up...

Blessing's and Warm Hugs Always Viv...}}}}}
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That should give you all a little idea of what's been happening with my search..
I feel like I've been on a roller coaster ride with these dealers trying to sell me a bus..making me all the more wary of any purchase from any dealer...They all know each other...and work together...and have mentioned each other in their e-mails to me...I have one e-mail that made me more afraid than any of all the others combined..and I have saved them all in a folder on my Outlook Express...Would you like to see them..??

I'm almost terrified to buy... That's why I brought so many question here to the list where I know you and many others really know Prevosts...I've purchased about 15 RV's in my lifetime and I tell you I have never had so much trouble finding the one I've been looking for for over 3 solid years..because of Prevost's huge cost...for a much older one I will surely have to pay more than twice what I've paid for any other coach...if indeed I can ever find one I can afford...at all...and if I could lease one I would do it..in a heartbeat...

I have no bills..!!! I own everything I have outright..and I would have to sell my house to get out from under this debt if I make it because I would have to use the Equity loan to produce more than 100K of my own money...and I'm trying to be all the more sure I get the right bus before I do that...especially after all the warnings I've received here on POG...
Everyone knows I'm all alone in making this final decision...

I despise this dealer Steve Katz for his trickery ...and I'm darned scared he might be hoodwinking me...by not allowing me to see it..prior to paying for it ...I'd much rather lose 5K than 135K...and I willl if I have to if I don't get to see the bus First...

I don't want to go to a lawyer but I may if everyone believes I could get the deposit back if I don't get to see the bus First...but I can't get an appt. for that even now...!!!!

I have too much stress I'm dealing with right this minute with out legal proceedings on top of it...This all started one week ago yesterday...I should have seen and made my decision about this bus last Saturday or Sunday at the latest..maybe Monday the 7th if there might have been no one available to show it to me on the weekend...I was available..

I can't believe what it's all turned into...but I know for sure I've made the last deposit on any bus without seeing it first that I will ever make...

Hugs Always Viv
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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jon Wehrenberg

I do not know Steve Katz. I do not know if he knows me or of me from reading these sites.

However, I sent him an email expressing interest in the Liberty and asking where and if I could see the bus. I got an instant response with no request for money.

My opinion on this right now is Viv wanted this bus. She has a down payment on this bus. If she wants to go look at it or inspect it, it is available. If she chooses to not look at it or does not want it the disposition of the $5,000 now seems to be an issue between Steve Katz and her. I don't sense that there is any resistance to seeing the bus, and in fact if the $5000 is not going to be returned and the bus really is what Viv wants it makes no sense to not go see the bus because this really may be the bus of her dreams. Otherwise there is a risk she truly is walking away from $5000.

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;39423]Thanks for all the comments and insight on how to proceed.

[QUOTE=0533I have suggested she send one more email and a registered demand letter specifically outlining her request for the return of her $5,000 deposit, her withdrawal to purchase, and a set time line for return of funds and finally a clear indication she will retain council, .[/un-QUOTE] Bruce..
Hi Bruce, All,
I just read your entire post and I will consider it ...I dread involving an attorney...so before I even think about that I have just a new e-mail to Steve Katz of Prevost Trader about the Bus..
Below is a copy of the message:
I'm showing it to all here to prove my own good faith despite the treatment I've received from Steve Katz..>>> and my strong fear of trickery on his part...but if it IS all he has purported it to be on his Website and to me on the Phone I will buy the bus...!!!

http://www.prevosttrader.com/index.php?v=8&iview=27

I cannot thank all of you enough for your great concern and help...I hope I get to meet every one of you in person...I can't find words to express how grateful I am...
Maybe I won't be cheated this time...like so many times before since I've been alone...
The Very Warmest of Hugs Always Viv MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU ALL...
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----- Original Message -----
From: Vivian A. McGraw
To: Steve Katz
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:37 AM
Subject: Making a last effort to get to...See, Drive, and Inspect..The Bus in Duncannon, Pa...

Dear Steve Katz,

This message is to inform you that I would still go to Duncannon,Pa. to see, drive and inspect the 1993 Prevost Elegant Liberty Lady that I have had my PNC Bank wire you $5,000.00 for that purpose, prior, to my purchasing this bus...

I still need the name and appointment with someone to meet me at the bus location and allow me to perform this process...See, Drive, and Inspect...

Thank you

Vivian A. McGraw

Hello Viv,

The text that I gave you earlier with a formal demand, time frame to act and a statement of what happens if he does not comply must be sent both via email and via "certified letter" do not add a bunch of additional language about the relationship just the the facts as i stated earlier:

I have suggested she send one more email and a registered demand letter specifically outlining your request for the return of your $5,000 deposit, your withdrawal to purchase, and a set time line for return of funds and finally a clear indication you will retain council if he does not comply, and file suit asking for the $5,000, interest, attorney's fees, court costs etc. Once this has been received and if nothing comes from it you will need to secure an attorney in Florida to address the suit.

Joe C,

You are correct sir. This post started with the eBay find. By the way it looks like someone has placed a bid of $40,400 on it. I posted what I found and should have been more specific as to it NOT being the coach this discussion thread has morphed into. I wanted Vivian to see what someone thats knows the coach has to say about it. A picture is sometimes worth a thousand words but it can also be worthless if the photo does not represent the current state of the subject.

Again, go forth and look at any prospective coach. It is the only way to assess its value to you and its real time condition.

Are we approaching the all time thread length record yet? If not we should try harded with this one we must be close.

I was a former RV dealer in Oregon and have sold motor vehicles in Oregon, Washington, California, and Nevada. In ALL these states, at the time I worked there, a deal was never consummated until the "Tail Lights were down the road".
We could not keep any part of a deposit or a trade until the customer signed all of the documentation and a 'DRS' (Dealer Report of Sale) along with a temporary license was issued. I have never seen a licensed dealer that would try to hold the customers feet to the fire if they did not accept delivery. Having explained the above this may not be the law in Pennsylvania or Florida or any other state where this may have occurred. My pal Fast Roger may be more familiar with the laws on the east coast and will help us out here.

I think the lawyers out there will agree that there are 3 basic requirements for a legal contract. They are Offer, Acceptance, and Consideration. In all the cases reported by Viv did she accept the vehicle. She did make an offer, it was accepted and she provided Consideration (Money) but if they laws are the same in the east she never took delivery of the vehicle(s).

So, instead of getting involved with an expensive attorney simply report this to a governing authority of the state where this transaction occurred. If Steve Katz is a dealer then he is subject to a law requiring him to refund Viv's deposit. If he is not a dealer then he is doing business without a license and may be subject to civil and criminal charges. I think Viv stated her age at one time (over 60) which may make the offender(s) subject to double or triple penalties for a crime against the elderly. Again this depends on the state law. There is another factor here and that is this was done interstate and by phone/computer which could make it a federal crime.

I will be happy to research this and get the names and phone numbers of the appropriate regulators. In my current business (Finance and Mortgage) I have helped lots of clients solve similar problems. I think most of us want to get even and get an attorney to go after the scoundrels but this is much easier route and does not cost anything but a few phone calls. It is usually more successful.

Darl

I think there's a major difference here. If I read it right, Steve Katz is not a dealer. He's a guy with a website, that does advertising, a middle-man if you will.. Ultimately the sale is a private transaction between seller and buyer, in which Steve is paid some $5000 (or more?) for the advertising on his website, and handling inquiries.

I know in the sale of my first CC coach by Steve Bennett, Steve took several deposits, and several buyers put in a deposit, and some never even took the time to come down and see the bus. IN several cases, after a period of a couple of weeks, we'd refund the deposit, and start the whole sale process over again.

In no case, did we ever keep a deposit, and Steve told me that really he couldn't keep the deposit.

Ray

If Steve Katz does not have a license then he CANNOT take deposits or act in any part of the sale. Period. If you do consignments you must have a license. If you simply take someone on a tour of the bus you are probably safe but the 1st time you mention money or even act as an intermediary you are an unlicensed salesperson.

You can bet our pal Steve Bennett is fully licensed and complies with the law.

Advertising an item on the internet for someone does not require a license.

Some licensed dealers "curbstone" vehicles by selling them off-site as private parties. This is illegal in most states including Florida.

Simply, if Steve Katz or anyone is doing the things Viv describes and is not fully licensed in the states where they are selling they are violating the law and should be reported.