I always keep the grill clean and ready to go.
:D
Printable View
I always keep the grill clean and ready to go.
:D
As far as snow, we only got enough to barely cover the ground. Our daughter did manage to build this sad little 8 inch snowman on our grandson's kiddy pool on our back deck.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaeldterry/4257804460/" title="Snowman closeup by , on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4257804460_8093a6d77d.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Snowman closeup" /></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaeldterry/4257804514/" title="Our back deck by , on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2743/4257804514_82787332c6.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Our back deck" /></a>
Our back deck during yesterday's "blizzard"
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaeldterry/4257045267/" title="Our daughter catching snowflakes on her tongue by , on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2701/4257045267_8357d02f7d.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Our daughter catching snowflakes on her tongue" /></a>
Our daughter, Mary, trying to catch snowflakes on her tongue as the snow "event" started
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaeldterry/4257045083/" title="Snowflakes from our front porch by , on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2784/4257045083_d39a9f0174.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="Snowflakes from our front porch" /></a>
Vita tried to capture the snowflakes with the camera looking out our front door as the snow started... uuhhhh, not so much.
Obviously, we are easily entertained in Woodstock, GA! LOL! (It's funny because it's true...) Maybe it's because this extreme cold gives us southerners brain freeze!
Since we do not have electric available at our current storage location, Vita and I have left the main switches on in Evangeline and are running the basement heaters with the thermostats set at 55 degrees, the AquaHot unit, and the midship toe kick heaters upstairs on low to hopefully stave off a freeze event. I set the generator to auto-start on the inverter menu so it will crank up and recharge the batteries when they get low. I intend to check the bus daily until the temperatures here migrate back above freezing to stay for a while. We're going to be travelling in the bus for the next three weekends, so I don't want to go through a "winterization" process every week!
I just got back from checking on the bus today and the generator was running when I pulled up. So at least I know the auto-start works! What I don't know is if/when the generator will shut off! For safety sake, I shut it off manually while I was there and will go back tomorrow afternoon to check it again. Am I doing something stupid here? Any other/alternate suggestions/advice on what I should do to keep the plumbing from freezing given the limitation of no shore power available?
Someone please educate me before I ruin a beautiful bus! :eek:
Michael,
Make a note of the hours on the generator each time you go check on the bus. That way you can determine how much you are actually using the generator. Also make sure you are not trying to charge the batteries to 100%, that takes a long time. You may be able to set your autostart to run for X hours the shut down. I would recommend 1 to 2 hours each time.
Other then that maybe consider just using the aqua hot and not the electric toe kick heaters. The aqua hot will likely run much longer before the batteries run low then the time the toe kick heaters run. If you do not winterize, you have to keep some heat in the bus. Seems like you have to run the generator once in a while to get it done.
Thanks Andre! I'll start recording the genset hours tomorrow and turn off the toe kick heaters!Quote:
Originally Posted by ajducote
I don't remember,can you set the amount of current during charging to the batteries with the trace inverters?If you can,then set them at a high charging rate if you are only going to run the generator for a couple of hours.Also do the toe kick heaters run off the inverters?My heater only runs off shore or gen,if that is the case I would turn them on to come on with the gen,otherwise I would not run them on the inverters because they consume too much current.
Michael,
My generator will shut off after 4 hours of running when it starts by Auto Start. It will then start again when the batteries call for a charge. Yours may work the same way as many operate this way.
Michael,
Your kick heaters won't run off inverter. The only time they will come on is when your gen starts and runs. Since your using the aquahot, why not just set the cabin temperature down low to say 50, forget the kick heaters, make sure the bay heat portion of the aquahot is on and let the autostart maintain the batteries. I am assuming your bay heaters are aquahot heat exchangers and not electric. If they're electric, your in trouble because they will only work on shore or gen, just like the kick heaters.
PS - Make sure you enough fuel, lower than a 1/4 could/will kill the gen and aquahot.
Thank you for the responses and advice Jack, Denny, and Tom! It is really quite comforting to know that POG buddies have your back when you need advice, direction, or instruction regarding our magnificent machines! I am forwarding your advice to Vita via e-mail to insure that it is remembered and followed (I can't be trusted to remember things - if I remember my name in the morning when I wake, it's a good day! - thank God for GPS!) :eek:
I will try to re-check all of this, but here it is to the best of my knowledge.
You are doing the same thing that I am doing to ward off the cold. I suggest that you use the Aqua-Hot more than the toe kicks.
Michael has a Vantare'. Everything runs off the inverters. In my coach, 4 toe kicks in the cabin, 2 in the plumbing bay and one in the storage bay all will run off the inverter and will suck the batteries down in a matter of two to three minutes (if all are on). (Here's something I will check, maybe the fans power up but not the heating elements, although that doesn't make sense to me).
The Xantrex invereters can be reprogrammed to put a high charge rate onto the batteries, but I believe it should already be doing so with the bulk charge cycle. In bulk charge mode, it is typically set to do charging at 15 amps. If you are running toe kicks, the inverters will stay in bulk mode for a very long time as the charge is not making much head way against the consumption. This is observed even when on shore power.
Here is the routine I have found to be the most effective.
When I first land, hook up to shore power, and need heat,
1. Aquahot for heat and HW.
2. When Aquahot shuts off, power up stepwell and mid electric toe kicks and plumbing and storage heaters.
3. Fire up electric HW after inverters drop from Bulk Charging mode into Float Charging Mode.
I also leave the generator in auto start as I have learned not to trust power in campgrounds in the winter, especially from 4:00 to 7:30 pm. Cooking and too many others running space heaters.
In storage, I depend almost exclusively on the Aqua-Hot and the generator. Once a week, I pre-heat and run the engine up to normal for engine and tranny.
Whatever routine you use you need to manage to allow the bulk cycle to complete or you can reduce the rate of charging during the bulk cycle so more power is available for you to use. For short runs in storage, maximize bulk charging.
Also, I believe that the bulk cycle charging rate is programmed in the setup menu on the Xantex 4024 Inverters.
P.S. on edit:
Auto start shutdown trigger is based on the condition of the battery charge. It doesn't care how long it tkaes to get there. And "there" was determined to be what is best for your type and brand of batteries.
More results of global warming. For the first time in the recorded history of Pensacola, we have just completed 10 consecutive days of below freezing temperature.
The ice on top of the ground in my barnyard never melted today. That is very unusual for it to be that cold all day. It was 14 degrees this morning and will be about the same in the morning. Of course by the end of the week, it is supposed to be back in the 60's.
Dustbowl,
Why on earth would they wire in the amp hog kick heaters on either one of the inverter legs? This makes no sense at all!
I've had two coaches with Aguahot and when operated on electric (not the diesel) position, they would heat the coach, hot water and bay heaters through the heat exchangers and the amp usage was very low. If the electric portion of the Aquahot could not keep up with the heat demand, then I switched to diesel. These were late model units, 2003 and 2004.
So in theory, in Michaels situation with no electric, Aquahot should handle all his needs while unattended as long as the auto-start was active and there would be no need for any kick heaters.
We spent 10 winters with our first coach in Western NY with the bus stored in a barn. No insulation, no heat source, only a cover to keep the snow from it. The sides had cracks big enough to see through so the barn was essentially the same temps as the outside.
We went through sub zero temps every winter, and had at least one week each winter when temps never got above zero in the mornings. To protect against freezing I followed a very simple procedure. Make sure the water tank is full. Set a small cube heater in the water bay, leave it on the 500 watt setting and do not turn it off. The water temp will get up to a safe temp (around 50 for our weather conditions) and the mass of water acts as a heat sink to moderate the bay temps.
For the house I used a three position electric heater with a fan. The normal setting was 500, but if it was gong to get in single digits I used 1000 watts and 1500 wats if it was going to get sub zero. The fan was critical in keeping the air inside evenly heated.
I opened all cabinet doors so the plumbing also got heat. I placed the unit in the kitchen.
The key to freeze protection is to maintain safe temps, not to try to bring them up to safe temps. The interior of the coach hovered around 45 degrees when I did what I described above. The key is to keep the wind off the bus. The windows will wick away the heat if it is windy outside. If you cannot keep the bus out of the wind, plan on using a lot more heat.
Ed and Tom - all good "educational" stuff for a neophyte (dummy) like me. I can verify that my toe kick heaters will, in fact, run off the inverter, but yesterday while out at the bus, I turned them off and am now just depending on the AquaHot and the basement heaters to keep Evangeline from freezing. Both days that I've checked so far, the generator was running when I pulled up to the bus and since I just recorded the genset hours for the first time yesterday, I don't know how long it had been running, so I turned it off manually (but left the auto-start set to "On"). I did go into the inverter menus yesterday and set the "Maximum Gen Run Time" to 3 hours to avoid the possibility of 18-24 hour runs in between me checking the bus and the associated fuel consumption. Hopefully this will be a moot point soon when this cold snap abates and I can safely turn off the generator auto-start and the main power switches!
As an aside, we are in negotiations with a father/son team who have opened a secure storage lot near our home recently called ParkMSellM RV Storage to put in a 50 amp service for us if we'll park Evangeline there. They are just getting started and are motivated to have some high end bus/RV units onsite to attract additional business. We hope to have an agreement hammered out this week. The initial offer is that if we'll store Evangeline there, they'll give us the first year free! On the power situation, we're talking about me contributing up to $200 to have the service installed and separately metered (I would pay for exact usage off "my" meter). There is an existing power pole/breaker box just a bit too far from where we'll park the bus under a large metal "shed" (used to be a lumber yard and the shed was lumber storage), so they'll have to run a line under the concrete tarmac. That's another thing I like about the possibility of keeping Evangeline there - it's reinforced concrete instead of the nasty gravel she's currently parked on!
In any case, it will be at least several days before we have a deal and get power installed, so it's no help to my current crisis. That makes your advice all the more important to us! Thanks again! :D
I've also told them that, if they would invest in a few (several) RV park style electrical hook-ups in the parking/storage area, it would be a huge differentiator to attract RV/bus storage clients and they were intrigued. I need to get contact and product info from Jon to pass on to them (or someone at Jon's daughter's company to pass on their contact info for Jamestown to call on them). I'll PM Jon with details, I guess. :o
It's amazing how the mass of water can keep things warm. I have the 20 gallon hot water heater on to protect the plumbing bay. Even though the water heater is on the starboard side, the inside temp of the bay on the port side is above 50 degree's. Bus barn has been down to 25 degree's on a couple mornings. The floor heat on a low setting of 70 is keeping the inside temp at 50.
Dumptruck: I have no idea.
However, as I said, I checked and yes indeedy they do come up on inverter and watch the batteries go bye bye. I have not checked to see if the situation is the same with the electric heaters in the bays.
I agree, Aqua-Hot is more than sufficient to keep the cabin and plumbing bay at safe temps. However, there is no aqua-hot for the storage bay. If heat is needed for important things (those 48 cases of Bear Pee Beer) then you need something else.
I believe that Vantare has the Xantrex's programmed to fire the gen-set either on battery condition or on high load detection.
ON EDIT: Thinking about this some more, I do seem to remember that the load was measured-battery-voltage-based. If draw-down was severe, there was a voltage that triggered the genset at 15, 10 and 5 minutes after monitoring three different low voltage readings. There may also be an load amps observation in the mix as well. I'll try to check these.
Michael,
1. make sure that you go to the "Meters" menu on the inverters. There you will be able to check the actual and the temp adjusted voltage state of the house batteries. I usually leave one inverter at this position so I can always get a quick look at the state of the batteries. If you are shutting off the generator before full charge and doing this every time, you may end up discharging the batteries to a detrimental point.
2. Also, if you have a Guest (or other brand) battery tender for your chassis batteries running off of the engine heater circuit, shut that circuit off in the panel. First your chassis bateries should be charged (check the 12 and 24 VAC dash guages). Second, you don't need to be using your house batteries to keep the chassis topped up.
3. If you have time, you should ride out a auto-start through auto-shut-down cycle. You can watch the process as the inverter
a. Verifies the AC-2 (generator) input as good,
b. Goes through the bulk charging mode to float charging mode (different on the two inverters)
c. finishes float and proceeds to shutdown.
Depending on battery condition when you start, it should take about 3 hours.
You will feel much more comfortable using and depending on this feature once you actually see with your own eyes that it works. I was very skeptical until I went through this exercise.
Somewhere in your docs you might find a sheet for your inverter with the voltages and programming parameters which control the auto-run features. Armed with these, the execise becomes very valuable. If you don't have it, I will talk you through what they should be reading off what I have in my manuals. I believe we previously established that we have the same inverter compliment.
Cheers and I hope this helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadrunner
This one's for you!!
Attachment 5965
Thanks, Ed! I'll print your post and try to follow your directions at the bus tomorrow!
I don't know what brand/model of chassis battery charger is in the bus, but I have the battery charger switch off on the electric panel anyway.
:D Don't worry about heating the storage bay, all good beer should be stored refrigerated.
.
Jim - point well taken! The heat is not on in the storage bay (gotta keep the beer at optimal temp). :pQuote:
Originally Posted by JIM CHALOUPKA
I will emphasize for those experiencing the dangers of prolonged freeze periods for the first time....KEEP THE WATER TANK FULL!
Now is not the time to take chances. Overheat the coach if you have to because if you break a single water pipe and it is hidden from view a lot of damage could take place, not only immediately, but later if the leak is not detected, and nothing will destroy a coach's value quicker than the smell of mold and mildew.
The cost of diesel fuel to run the generator or Webasto continuously is chump change compared to repair costs. I urge you consider back up also. I used electric heaters strategically placed as my primary heat source but backed them up with other heaters (our propane furnaces on the first coach for example) in the event of a failure. This week we used the toe space heaters as prime, but the Webasto as back up.
As I said I would, I checked and the electric heaters in the storage and the plumbing bays operate off the inverters as well.
As a heads up to all interested, Jon and I are having a running discoourse off-line which I hope will result in a description of how the vantare' school of electrical system engineering is different from the liberty/marathon school approach.
That would certainly be a most welcome and much appreciated educational read for me! Go for it, gentlemen!Quote:
Originally Posted by sawdust_128
It is not easy for Ed and I to understand. He undoubtedly has a firm grasp on how his coach is set up, but we both have some serious unaswered questions that we need to sort out before either of us can get this nailed down.
Is there a Vantare owner that knows how his coach 120V AC system is set up? My biggest struggle is if everything runs through the inverters, which have 33 amp continuous load capacity or 4000 watts, with 2 inverters having a 8000 watt 66 amp capacity. Why then would Vantare install a 17,000 watt generator? I see no provision for generator power to bypass the inverters when the loads exceed inverter capacity so the inverters become a choke point.
Is there anyone out there that can explain the logic or clear up this mystery. Other than that I think Ed and I do understand the Vantare system, but like Columbo we need to tie up this loose end.
Does perhaps the 33A capacity you mention not include the battery charging circuit?
I know on my coach that the battery charging amps are generally clamped to the input cord size, so perhaps the inverters can provide up to 33A load and 15A battery charging?
Just a guess.
Ray,
The 33 amp is the continuous output listed in the specs for the inverter.
Charging current is 120 amps 24VDC, or about 24 amps AC current draw.
The AC transfer switch is listed as 60 amps but I do not know if that includes the charging current. Your question prompted me to re-read the specs off the PDF file for the owners manual (about 150 or 160 pages so there is a lot of data) and after re-reading it I think I have now answered a question that has been nagging me in part.