Coolant/Antifreeze

I agree with that drain procedure etc, the end result will be worth it.

JIM

Dale,

You don't have to go to Cat for the EC-1, there are other sources less expensive as long as it complies with EC-1. Brian put Texaco in mine.

The coolant that I found locally that meets the EC-1 specs is the red Zerex HD Extended. NAPA has the full strength for $15.02 a gallon. If that is what I use I will mix with distilled water.

While I am changing my coolant, I want to change all/most of my hoses. I figure 10 years is getting pretty close to the end of their life although I don't see any that are swollen, etc.

Has anyone changed all the coolant hoses around the Series 60 engine before, and will I need to get all of them from Prevost or can I just buy hose and make some/all of them?

According to the manual, the system (including dash heater lines) holds 24 gallons. Does anyone know if this is close to reality for our applications? I know when I changed the coolant a couple years ago, I was able to drain our about 16 /17 gallons. I didn't drain the heater lines.

I've heard some say don't use distilled water to mix with EC-1 when filling the system. Why is distilled water a problem? Peak recommends using it when mixing with antifreeze. The definition for purified water is water such as distilled or deionized that has had the minerals removed.

I changed my system coolant with power cool 3000 and new filters before OKC. I thought I had done a good job deairing the system, but had one morning where the engine would not stay running. Problem low coolant. Got home from OKC and low coolant, and no leaks. Needed heat in the bus for winter, two register would not put out warm air, need deairing again.

In the future I am going to only change the coolant and filters in the engine loop at the two year mark, let it mix with the heating system coolant and monitor with test strip when I check oil for long trips and then do the same at two years again. I am threw trying to burp these babies.

May not be AR (anal retentive) but I think it will out last me, and after that it's someone else problem. I know the last coolant change before the one this year was in 2000 and the coolant looked good and tested good. I really never put much thought into it until these coolant threads. So I think my future protocol will be 200% better that the last 9 years.

GregM

My coolant changing technique to burp the system is to run the Webasto pump to circulate coolant. I also get the engine up to temperature by doing a quick run around the block (8 miles). I then refill and circulate the coolant again using the Webasto. So far that has worked. I think getting the engine hot and having the engine thremostat open is central to purging air.

My last coolant change involved changing Webasto system external hoses so if I was going to have air entrapment that would have been the time, but it still worked OK. This coming August I think I will change to EC-1, and I am considering changing the interior Webasto hoses so I know the system will have been fully drained. I assume the technique will still work. Then with EC-1I hope I can avoid having to go through the process for a long time. It's a PITA.

Jon, when you changed out your Webasto hoses did you find any old hose that you thought you caught in the nick of time?

Do you think any might have leaked at any moment or were the hoses you removed actually in good condition and just old?

Did you use new hose clamps across the board or reuse the old ones?


JIM

It was about 18 months ago that I changed the Webasto hoses and a couple of the elbows were bulged out and beginning to show signs of impending failure. Externally they lookd OK, but were clearly bulging.

I used all new clamps and I doubled them. When my EC-1 has come to the end of its life, it will also be when I will replace the Webasto hoses plus some others in the cooling system. The job wasn't that bad, so I'd rather do it prematurely than experience a failure while on the road.

I allowed some hoses on the first bus to go about 13 years and when I changed them I realized how close I was to having them fail. It doesn't seem like they should fail, but when you consider they see 14 PSI plus some very hot temps its a wonder they last as well as they do.

I would really be a pis*** to drain, flush, drain, flush and drain for EC-1 and then have a bad hose blow and loose all that EC-1.

Jon even deairing each register I still had an air lock in one register that I could only remove by turning off all the other register valves. I have not been impressed with that little pump in the Webasto for circulation.

GregM

Greg Could it be that the pump is weak? Rick

I had to drain about 2 gallon last month when I did my Webasto circulation pump change. I saved most of the coolant and only had to add a couple quarts. I then ran the Webasto full tilt for about 3 hours with heat, water heater and engine heater getting to 170 degree's and had no air lock issues. Drove 1200 miles after and didn't have to add anything.

Not having done mine yet, I don't know if it is possible in a practical way?

Couldn't one keep tract of how much antifreeze came out so if the same quantity did not go back, you know you have an air pocket.

JIM:confused:

If you do not make the switch from the DD type coolant to EC-1, and you change coolant on schedule I doubt if it is a big deal to leave some of the old coolant in the system.

But if you switch to EC-1 it is important that the system have as much of the old coolant as possible removed. I believe in Spearfish the fellow leading the EC-1 seminar said 20% was OK, but I think with a little effort we can get almost all the old coolant out with a couple of water flushes.

When I do put the EC-1 in the coach it is going to be a major project making sure every hose in the system is new or nearly new, but I think it will be worth the effort since the hoses need to be in great shape anyway and EC-1 is a good way to force myself to go to the effort.

I received a copy of this message to/from Bill Jensen from Prevost. Probably worth the read!

"My question to Mr. Jensen
We need to add coolant, once or twice each season. The coolant gets
low enough that the "stop engine" light comes on. After adding about 1/2 to 3/4 gallon, the light goes out and stays out until it gets low again. The engine doesn't seem to run hot by the gauge and no evidence of leaks is shown. Could a malfunctioning surge tank pressure cap be allowing the coolant to escape. I looked in the manual and Drwg. 0510-00 shows a cap @ 7 psi. Drwg. 0510-01 shows a cap of "over 14 psi". There is a reference on each of the above sheets that says "Prior to J-622" and "Eff. J-622". I wasn't sure how to interpret the "J-622" so I decided to ask you. Our VIN is 2PM33405S1001470, can you advise which pressure caps we should be using?

Response from Bill Jensen, Prevost Service Manager, Shell Division
The designator J-622 is the shortened form we use to make it simple to find the unit break for parts and anything else on the coach. For your VIN 2PM33405S1001470 this shortened form would be S-470. The 8th digit in the VIN number is the year. It started with the letter B in 1981 and continued up each year, skipping letters that looked like numbers. E = 1984, F – 1985, etc. The "470 is the sequence number. Prior to 1996 (T) there was no separation of the VIN numbers for XL and H series coaches. Starting in 1996 we started using the last "four" digits of the VIN instead of the last three. Plus we designated that the H series vehicles would be from 0001 through 4999 and XL series vehicle would be from 5000-9999. Thus from 1996 on we could tell what type of vehicle we were talking about from the VIN number.
That all being said we use two caps on the surge tanks. The top one where you would add fluid is strictly a cap. The lower one on the overflow line is the pressure cap and it is a 14lb cap. This was done so that venting of the hot coolant would be done through a proper tube to prevent spraying you with hot coolant. This might happen if you tried to take the upper cap off.

I hope that this somewhat explains the system and the vin number designation. I have added a sheet that explains this also."

Rick
you maybe right, I don't know how to check this. I have the little pump in the Webasto unit and another one (part of the bus heating system in the roof of bay 1. Both seem to work or can at least feel them turning.
GregM