I"ve seen something on e-bay...advice please..

Thanks for all the comments and insight on how to proceed.

There are several good lessons here for all of us, and especially for Viv.

I think based on what I have read, what I have seen for documents (Wire Transfer) that Viv has but one choice at this point.

I have suggested she send one more email and a registered demand letter specifically outlining her request for the return of her $5,000 deposit, her withdrawal to purchase, and a set time line for return of funds and finally a clear indication she will retain council, and file suit asking for the $5,000, interest, attorney's fees, court costs etc. Once this has been received and if nothing comes from it she will need to secure an attorney in Florida to address the suit.

I do feel that there is still something very wrong with the transaction. I have never offered to purchase a vehicle from anyone without knowing how to make contact with whomever is in control of the vehicle so that I can make arrangements to see it. The mere fact that Steve is unwilling to connect Viv with a name, provide a phone number or offer to allow her to inspect the bus makes me suspicious indeed. And if Will's post is referring to the same bus there might well be a good reason why Steve Katz has not been forth coming about the owners contact info.

Jon suggests that he was able to make contact with Steve and get info on the bus, Jon can you gain access to the owner through Steve so that Viv can see the bus. Maybe we can find a member near 139 Old Trail Rd in Duncannon Pa which is very near Harrisburg Pa about 10 miles north of rt. 81 who could Eyeball the bus and let Viv know the outcome.

Viv lives in Nj. which is not too far from this location. It might be worth a visit to see the bus and make sure it even exists. My guess if Will's info is correct that the bus is not in the same condition as the pictures represent it to be and maybe by taking a look see Viv can officially respond, there is some risk involved with this approach, but it will require that Steve at least give her a contact name, phone number so Viv can set a time and place for a meeting.

There is no language in the Wire Transfer document that sets a date for closing, for the remaining $125,000. there is no language that says she cannot not view the bus before completion of the sale, that Viv cannot withdraw from the purchase, that she is required to have insurance or that she must pay the remainder in full or over 20 years, or that it refers to any legal language to support his retention of her deposit. The laws of Florida provides a seller who does not want to complete the transaction some latitude. I think she could actually make a case that Steve is libel for damages for not providing her access to the seller at this point and should not be offering the bus for sale to others while there is cloud over the transaction.

If Steve does not do this then there is surely something wrong here, also Steve needs to supply Viv with a contract for sale between the parties, especially the party who is actually selling it, Steve is not the owner to the best of my knowledge and therefore cannot declare that she has made a purchase and if she asks for her money back declare her in default. I really think she has a case here but it will take time. The wire transfer does create some grey areas but the transaction as a whole looks fishy and the courts will be able to see through this, unfortunately Florida is a magnet for this type of stuff.

Wills info is on that 40ft XL CC that is listed for 49k down in Florida.

That vandelizm that was done was repaired to some degree cause the guy I know who looked at it would have for sure said something. I also noticed that bus is listed on heartland coach and the photos difference in condition looking at the photos on Prevo Trader is obvious.

I run to the computer every day now for my dose on this story. It just gets crazier by the day.

I guess every coach has a story or history.

Tully

************************************************** ******
[QUOTE=However, I sent him an email expressing interest in the Liberty and asking where and if I could see the bus. I got an instant response with no request for money. .[/QUOTE]
He's not going to try to cheat you Jon...You are a man of consequence...
************************************************** ****
Hi Jon,

Did Steve give you a place to go to see the bus..and the name of someone to meet you there..!!!!

If so why didn't he tell me to go see it..??..and meet someone there instead of demanding I get Ins. and Pay in full for the bus then "Drive it Home"...as his way of allowing me to see it...!!! Unbelievable...

If so and I find out where it is and who to see to gain entrance to the bus, drive it, and have it checked over I would still go immediately...!!!! and now also try to get Joe C. to meet me there...to check the things I don't understand but he would...I only want to make sure it's laid out the way he said it is, and the pictures show...drives right to me...and as he said is in good condition..."Perfect were his words to me"...

Mention was made of my communication with other dealers...I would like to know what was said about me so I would have the the opportunity to refute if untrue and defend myself...

I have been asked for deposits to see a Prevost before but never made any because I wanted to see a bus FIRST...I was so sure of this one I made the deposit...but 9 years ago I had legally signed papers and agreed to buy a bus in Houston Tx.. www.motorhomesusa.com I made a deposit of 30K on a 65K Diesel Bus..to pay cash for and flew out there to buy it..It was obvious the pictures on his website were taken when the bus was NEW...what I found was a pigsty...that was top heavy when it went around bends..I refused to buy it...and in the end was literally forced to lose 30K or buy a diff. bus from that dealer...Against my will I chose an 87 Fleetwood Limited...my deposit was full price for it and I drove it home..

I have missed one other Prevost bus I'm almost Positive I would have purchased if I had seen it...thru' chat with another dealer...One Rod Daniels of Heartland Coach in Fl. also...who also went way out of his way to get money from me before letting me see the busses in question...I never sent him any money...but I was ready to when my Bank first approved the Home Equity Loan I had been seeking but the morning I told Rod Daniels the loan had been approved he sent me a message back saying the bus had been sold thru' another dealer..!!! This is that bus...>>>and the the Letter I sent to my bank so they'd know why I wouldn't be wiring the deposit...>>>>>
************************************************** ***
{{{{{{{ Original Message -----
From: Vivian A. McGraw
To: Melissahill65@hotmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:19 AM
Subject: I lost the one in Al. Rod Daniels didn't have the heart to call me back.

Hello Melissa,
I just called Rod at Heartland about the below coach I've been negotiating to buy for months..
http://www.heartlandbus.com/VehicleD...m?StockNo=1470
He told me the other person got it and he didn't have the heart to call me and tell me...after I'd waited for his call back for over an hour this morning sitting on the edge of my chair...
So if I'm to realize my dream I must start all over again...I just can't give up...

Blessing's and Warm Hugs Always Viv...}}}}}
************************************************** ******
That should give you all a little idea of what's been happening with my search..
I feel like I've been on a roller coaster ride with these dealers trying to sell me a bus..making me all the more wary of any purchase from any dealer...They all know each other...and work together...and have mentioned each other in their e-mails to me...I have one e-mail that made me more afraid than any of all the others combined..and I have saved them all in a folder on my Outlook Express...Would you like to see them..??

I'm almost terrified to buy... That's why I brought so many question here to the list where I know you and many others really know Prevosts...I've purchased about 15 RV's in my lifetime and I tell you I have never had so much trouble finding the one I've been looking for for over 3 solid years..because of Prevost's huge cost...for a much older one I will surely have to pay more than twice what I've paid for any other coach...if indeed I can ever find one I can afford...at all...and if I could lease one I would do it..in a heartbeat...

I have no bills..!!! I own everything I have outright..and I would have to sell my house to get out from under this debt if I make it because I would have to use the Equity loan to produce more than 100K of my own money...and I'm trying to be all the more sure I get the right bus before I do that...especially after all the warnings I've received here on POG...
Everyone knows I'm all alone in making this final decision...

I despise this dealer Steve Katz for his trickery ...and I'm darned scared he might be hoodwinking me...by not allowing me to see it..prior to paying for it ...I'd much rather lose 5K than 135K...and I willl if I have to if I don't get to see the bus First...

I don't want to go to a lawyer but I may if everyone believes I could get the deposit back if I don't get to see the bus First...but I can't get an appt. for that even now...!!!!

I have too much stress I'm dealing with right this minute with out legal proceedings on top of it...This all started one week ago yesterday...I should have seen and made my decision about this bus last Saturday or Sunday at the latest..maybe Monday the 7th if there might have been no one available to show it to me on the weekend...I was available..

I can't believe what it's all turned into...but I know for sure I've made the last deposit on any bus without seeing it first that I will ever make...

Hugs Always Viv
************************************************** **

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jon Wehrenberg

I do not know Steve Katz. I do not know if he knows me or of me from reading these sites.

However, I sent him an email expressing interest in the Liberty and asking where and if I could see the bus. I got an instant response with no request for money.

My opinion on this right now is Viv wanted this bus. She has a down payment on this bus. If she wants to go look at it or inspect it, it is available. If she chooses to not look at it or does not want it the disposition of the $5,000 now seems to be an issue between Steve Katz and her. I don't sense that there is any resistance to seeing the bus, and in fact if the $5000 is not going to be returned and the bus really is what Viv wants it makes no sense to not go see the bus because this really may be the bus of her dreams. Otherwise there is a risk she truly is walking away from $5000.

---

;39423]Thanks for all the comments and insight on how to proceed.

[QUOTE=0533I have suggested she send one more email and a registered demand letter specifically outlining her request for the return of her $5,000 deposit, her withdrawal to purchase, and a set time line for return of funds and finally a clear indication she will retain council, .[/un-QUOTE] Bruce..
Hi Bruce, All,
I just read your entire post and I will consider it ...I dread involving an attorney...so before I even think about that I have just a new e-mail to Steve Katz of Prevost Trader about the Bus..
Below is a copy of the message:
I'm showing it to all here to prove my own good faith despite the treatment I've received from Steve Katz..>>> and my strong fear of trickery on his part...but if it IS all he has purported it to be on his Website and to me on the Phone I will buy the bus...!!!

http://www.prevosttrader.com/index.php?v=8&iview=27

I cannot thank all of you enough for your great concern and help...I hope I get to meet every one of you in person...I can't find words to express how grateful I am...
Maybe I won't be cheated this time...like so many times before since I've been alone...
The Very Warmest of Hugs Always Viv MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU ALL...
************************************************** *****
----- Original Message -----
From: Vivian A. McGraw
To: Steve Katz
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 10:37 AM
Subject: Making a last effort to get to...See, Drive, and Inspect..The Bus in Duncannon, Pa...

Dear Steve Katz,

This message is to inform you that I would still go to Duncannon,Pa. to see, drive and inspect the 1993 Prevost Elegant Liberty Lady that I have had my PNC Bank wire you $5,000.00 for that purpose, prior, to my purchasing this bus...

I still need the name and appointment with someone to meet me at the bus location and allow me to perform this process...See, Drive, and Inspect...

Thank you

Vivian A. McGraw

Hello Viv,

The text that I gave you earlier with a formal demand, time frame to act and a statement of what happens if he does not comply must be sent both via email and via "certified letter" do not add a bunch of additional language about the relationship just the the facts as i stated earlier:

I have suggested she send one more email and a registered demand letter specifically outlining your request for the return of your $5,000 deposit, your withdrawal to purchase, and a set time line for return of funds and finally a clear indication you will retain council if he does not comply, and file suit asking for the $5,000, interest, attorney's fees, court costs etc. Once this has been received and if nothing comes from it you will need to secure an attorney in Florida to address the suit.

Joe C,

You are correct sir. This post started with the eBay find. By the way it looks like someone has placed a bid of $40,400 on it. I posted what I found and should have been more specific as to it NOT being the coach this discussion thread has morphed into. I wanted Vivian to see what someone thats knows the coach has to say about it. A picture is sometimes worth a thousand words but it can also be worthless if the photo does not represent the current state of the subject.

Again, go forth and look at any prospective coach. It is the only way to assess its value to you and its real time condition.

Are we approaching the all time thread length record yet? If not we should try harded with this one we must be close.

I was a former RV dealer in Oregon and have sold motor vehicles in Oregon, Washington, California, and Nevada. In ALL these states, at the time I worked there, a deal was never consummated until the "Tail Lights were down the road".
We could not keep any part of a deposit or a trade until the customer signed all of the documentation and a 'DRS' (Dealer Report of Sale) along with a temporary license was issued. I have never seen a licensed dealer that would try to hold the customers feet to the fire if they did not accept delivery. Having explained the above this may not be the law in Pennsylvania or Florida or any other state where this may have occurred. My pal Fast Roger may be more familiar with the laws on the east coast and will help us out here.

I think the lawyers out there will agree that there are 3 basic requirements for a legal contract. They are Offer, Acceptance, and Consideration. In all the cases reported by Viv did she accept the vehicle. She did make an offer, it was accepted and she provided Consideration (Money) but if they laws are the same in the east she never took delivery of the vehicle(s).

So, instead of getting involved with an expensive attorney simply report this to a governing authority of the state where this transaction occurred. If Steve Katz is a dealer then he is subject to a law requiring him to refund Viv's deposit. If he is not a dealer then he is doing business without a license and may be subject to civil and criminal charges. I think Viv stated her age at one time (over 60) which may make the offender(s) subject to double or triple penalties for a crime against the elderly. Again this depends on the state law. There is another factor here and that is this was done interstate and by phone/computer which could make it a federal crime.

I will be happy to research this and get the names and phone numbers of the appropriate regulators. In my current business (Finance and Mortgage) I have helped lots of clients solve similar problems. I think most of us want to get even and get an attorney to go after the scoundrels but this is much easier route and does not cost anything but a few phone calls. It is usually more successful.

Darl

I think there's a major difference here. If I read it right, Steve Katz is not a dealer. He's a guy with a website, that does advertising, a middle-man if you will.. Ultimately the sale is a private transaction between seller and buyer, in which Steve is paid some $5000 (or more?) for the advertising on his website, and handling inquiries.

I know in the sale of my first CC coach by Steve Bennett, Steve took several deposits, and several buyers put in a deposit, and some never even took the time to come down and see the bus. IN several cases, after a period of a couple of weeks, we'd refund the deposit, and start the whole sale process over again.

In no case, did we ever keep a deposit, and Steve told me that really he couldn't keep the deposit.

Ray

If Steve Katz does not have a license then he CANNOT take deposits or act in any part of the sale. Period. If you do consignments you must have a license. If you simply take someone on a tour of the bus you are probably safe but the 1st time you mention money or even act as an intermediary you are an unlicensed salesperson.

You can bet our pal Steve Bennett is fully licensed and complies with the law.

Advertising an item on the internet for someone does not require a license.

Some licensed dealers "curbstone" vehicles by selling them off-site as private parties. This is illegal in most states including Florida.

Simply, if Steve Katz or anyone is doing the things Viv describes and is not fully licensed in the states where they are selling they are violating the law and should be reported.

Evening All,

I have received a reply from Steve Katz of Prevost Trader, Fl..and am posting a copy of same and my reply...
Looks Like I'm at last going to get to See, Drive, and Inspect the 93 Prevost Elegant Liberty Lady Bus in Duncannon, Pa...on Monday the 15th of Dec. 08..

Many Thanks for all your troubles and help in my behalf...!~!!~!
Hugs Always Viv
************************************************** *****
----- Original Message -----
From: Vivian A. McGraw
To: PrevostTrader
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: Making a last effort to get to...See, Drive, and Inspect..The Bus in Duncannon, Pa...
PREVOST TRADER

Dear Steve Katz,

Monday will be fine...with my leaving NJ at 9: 00 A.M. the 15th of Dec. 08...
I am now waiting for your reply with the exact address of where the bus is located and the number you want me to call when I arrive there...so you can call..."MAX"... and inform this person of my arrival...wherever I find a phone to call you...
My own cell phone is out of order permanently and I doubt the new one being shipped to me from AT&T will have been delivered to me by then...but just in case it is ...my number on Cell is 732-779-1227...if need be...In any event I will have your office number with me...

Now I just need a proper address and correct zip code...the previous one you sent me was not valid according to Map Quest...Map Quest changed that zip code to an offer of 17020-7120 as being the closest they could use...

Maybe you should also have a look at where www.zillow.com using the zip code you gave me places the address you gave me previously...for
139 Old Trail Rd. Duncannon, Pa. 17069 ...where the zip code you gave me did give me an exact address in a very sparsely populated area...

I was very apprehensive of going there alone with No Name or Phone Number...another reason I was hesitant to go there last Saturday...if it had been more populated I would have felt better about it...and if the zip codes had agreed I would have trusted the directions more as well...

So please be very exact about the address...

Thank You
Vivian A. McGraw
************************************************** ******
----- Original Message -----
From: PrevostTrader
To: Vivian A. McGraw
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2008 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Request Return of 5,000.00 Wire from PNC Bank to Sun Trust Bank 12-5-08

You are scheduled to see the bus on Monday. Please let me know if that is ok, and I will get the exact address where the bus is located. You can get directions from Mapquest to avoid the possibility of getting lost. When you arrive please call me and I will let Max know you are there.
************************************************** *****

Darl et al, I am familiar with Tenn Law and that is enough for me to deal with, so I am no expert on Florida or New Jersey law. Sounds to me that this Katz guy has gotten his panties in a wad over this lady cause she has spun his wheels before. That is no excuse for this type of behavior. If he is a licensed dealer that is interested in a happy customer - a letter to the Better Business Bureau in his area should get his attention and the proper & correct response - a refund.

In Tenn and I would assume in Florida as Darl stated he would be required to have a "Salesman License".

But it sounds like he may be a consignment shop. No investment, no equity, no inventory, so nothing to loose and everything to gain. A letter to the department of License and Commerce in Florida should be in order. I am not familiar with Florida laws, but I do believe they are very much on the side of the consumer vs the reseller. I have seen 10 times a many Florida cars at auction due to Lemon buyback vs any other state here in the east and that tells me Florida law favors the consumer.

This is very disappointing that folks that should know how to conduct business get themselves in this kind of mess. It is as simple as proper communication between buyer and seller. I would avoid any middle men in the future and deal directly with the seller be it a properly licensed dealer or individual. No bucks up front and only after the deal has been struck and delivery is imminent.

I don't know this guy but it sounds to me as an outsider looking in that he has the potential to take the money and run. I hope not for this Ladys' sake, plus If you are going to rob somebody - Brinks or Congress would probably be the best bet for a big haul.

Bottom line I recommend doing business with a licensed dealer, at least in this state the dealer is required to post a $50,000 bond to the state prior to obtaining a license to help handle sour deals such as this. The state licensing Department under Commerce and Insurance handles it and God only knows how long it would take to resolve this thru a goverment official.

If these actions don't get results, and not knowing what else Darl may recommend, and all else fails I recommend you follow Bruces directions. Do it quick- no procrastination, no grace period.-

Sometimes Attorneys are necessary, but they are not cheap. That 5 grand will evaporate very quickly with an attorney involved.

I am very concerned that while Viv will be looking at the colors of the tile and the layout of the bus she will not be inspecting the very things that will turn her purchase into a nightmare.

Buying a bus is not about the colors or how much tread is on the tires, but is about how everything works, the quality of the past maintenance, the quality of the care it has received, and verifying nothing expensive needs to be repaired. What are the date codes on the tires and batteries?

Will she insure the generator works, the AC systems work, the Webasto works, the inverters are functioning as they are supposed to, there are no hub seal leaks, the bus doesn't have the leans, the engine starts properly and does not overheat, the transmission shifts properly, there are no DDEC or ATEC issues, etc, etc?

Within 5 minutes of looking at a coach we can tell just by date codes if the bus will need $7500 worth of batteries or tires right away.

With a little more time and effort we can verify the major systems function.

With a short look underneath we can verify if the brakes are OK, if the air bags have dry rot, or if any hub seals leak.

And all of that is before it is even started up or driven.

Now Viv is going alone into an area that is"sparsely populated" and not even on the map to meet a "Max" that does not have a phone number for her to call. Steve is going to call "Max" to tell him Viv is in the area. She is going with an inoperative cell phone. Does any of this sound logical? All of this is done at the direction of a guy that has supposedly ripped her off for 5 big, The great suggestions that Jon and Roger posted may be in vain if she encounters more than she has bargained for. At the very least she needs to be accompanied by someone that could protect her if trouble arose.

Roger, I forgot about the BBB in my previous post. You are right about them. I recovered almost 10k from the Yellow Pages for a mistake they made on my company advertising by using the local Bureau.

I found a bit more about Steve Katz. I appears that he was a dentist from New York and was also an RV Dealer. The folks on this website note that they help sell RVs in any state but their site does not have license numbers posted. As Roger and I wrote, these folks need to be licensed in any state where they conduct sales activity. This is also going to require a bond to protect folks like Viv. It looks like SK is just a salesperson for this company.

This is probably my final word on this subject. Viv, stay away from this deal until you can answer the questions poised by Jon, Roger, and the other good POG members. They is just too much hair on this piece of candy!

Darl

Sure wish Chris and I were visiting my mother in NE Ohio, we would head to Duncannon, Pa immediately. BUt we aren't in OHIO now. Both our mothers are over sixty. We wouldn't allow them to go into negotiations in a "sparsely populated" anything.

Viv, please do what everyone here has said, most recently Darl-Wilson. The candy is "hairy", it exceeds the 5 second rule.
don't pick it off the floor. If yo must, take a male friend or several lady friends with you. All the "hugs and Kisses" can't make a bad situation get better. This Steve Katz thing wreaks.!!! Please, come Monday, stay away from Pennsylvania.

Do we not have a member of POG in the general area that can help Viv look at this coach? If the bus is not satisfactory to one of our members, at least it may be reasonable for this guy to refund her $$$$$, and if not, we should all do the best we can to see that this guy NEVER sells a coach to any one within the reach of this group. There is no excuse for this kind of BS if this guy is even implying that he is reputable.

I have suggested to Viv to send along her Registered letter of withdrawal, she has the exact text via email now.

The bigger questions are 2 fold. Does Viv really want to purchase a bus, can she drive one can she afford the purchase price and the upgrade and service expense, not to speak of the expenses related to storage travel etc. This is not a purchase for the faint at heart.

2nd: If the answer to is that Viv still wants a bus she might be able to kill 2 birds with a visit to See the bus. Max is the owner of the home (i checked this out) and I suspect the bus. He may be completely unaware of Steve Katz's handling of Viv. If Viv can have someone on hand who knows buses and can give her the underneath, behind the floorboards perspective it might be possible to find out if this bus is right.

If it is not, my guess is that Max would not want to hold up Viv or place his bus in a legal battle. If she does not want the bus she should tell Max and ask Max to tell Steve Katz to refund her money.

This might be the fastest way to the end game.

On the other hand if Viv goes alone without any advice she might make a very bad (I really want a Bus decision) move and fall in love with the whole notion. Who knows maybe Max is single and Viv and he hit it off. Remember it is Christmas and miracles can happen.

Viv,

I PM'd you about this coach.http://staleycoach.com/48793%20-%2094%20MARATHON.htm

Oh My Gosh,

OOOhhhhh....I don't know what to say to such caring and concern !!!! It's never happened to me before...I'm overwhelmed !!!

Yes I do want to buy my own diesel bus with all my heart...It may have looked like I wasn't serious to dealers but that was only because I was being soooooooooo careful not to make a mistake...a bad buy...

I want to drive a real bus again...I do want to see the bus... and I do want to do everything right...and it is a huge move on my part, no one knows this better than me..

After reading these last few posts and the e-mail I woke up to from Jon this morning I won't go to Duncannon alone...

Steve Katz hasn't sent me the directions he said he would in his e-mail to me yesterday, Saturday and it is now after 1:00 PM Sunday...

Gosh...I'm packed for a few days stay in Pa...If Steve had sent the directions earlier I was going to go up there TODAY...so I could find a motel, and look for a mechanic, and I was considering going to the local police to see if an officer could be sent with me rather than go all alone to meet with "Max"...

He could even be a real nice person who might be known in the area..I hate to think the worst of anyone or anything until I'm sure..That's why I would have gone the day early since I had the time...but it's obvious I can't depend on what Steve Katz has told me..

I'd have to see and drive the bus and have a mechanic check it over before I would ever buy it..!!!!!!!!

Oh ... Yes I can drive...drove for Greyhound...but it was a few years ago...

Money will be tight for me after paying 135K for a bus because 40K of it will have to come from my Approved Line of Credit on my house...but I will be putting my house on the market immediately after I buy the bus...I hate bills...Soon as it sells I would pay off my debt and I have plans to buy a mobile home in Fl. for my home base...I've always needed roots to come back to...

I don't need or want this 9 room house anymore...been here 40 plus years...It's worth 300K plus...and I'd maybe even look for a better bus then...but not if I loved the first one...I've only traded up to get more convenience and a little bigger...I have my Dolphin 7 yrs..and will keep it if I can't find the bus with my name on it...

Sure would be wonderful if you were right about Max...lol...

Quote>>> Remember it is Christmas and miracles can happen. Unquote..
Hugs Always Viv Smile...;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 0533

I have suggested to Viv to send along her Registered letter of withdrawal, she has the exact text via email now.

The bigger questions are 2 fold. Does Viv really want to purchase a bus, can she drive one can she afford the purchase price and the upgrade and service expense, not to speak of the expenses related to storage travel etc. This is not a purchase for the faint at heart.

2nd: If the answer to is that Viv still wants a bus she might be able to kill 2 birds with a visit to See the bus. Max is the owner of the home (i checked this out) and I suspect the bus. He may be completely unaware of Steve Katz's handling of Viv. If Viv can have someone on hand who knows buses and can give her the underneath, behind the floorboards perspective it might be possible to find out if this bus is right.

If it is not, my guess is that Max would not want to hold up Viv or place his bus in a legal battle. If she does not want the bus she should tell Max and ask Max to tell Steve Katz to refund her money.

This might be the fastest way to the end game.

On the other hand if Viv goes alone without any advice she might make a very bad (I really want a Bus decision) move and fall in love with the whole notion. Who knows maybe Max is single and Viv and he hit it off. Remember it is Christmas and miracles can happen.

---

Viv, please make contact with "Jim" Colorado Bus, Jim is in Ohio I believe right now and may be able to meet you at the bus??? Viv's # 732-779-1227

Viv give Jim "Colorado Bus your phone # so he can make contact. I would also call Steve Katz Cell # (239) 229-8207 and tell him you are bringing a POG friend along to see the bus and meet Max, inspect the bus before making your final decision to purchase, need directions phone # for Max.

Whew!!!!!!!

Thank you Jim,

I've tried to stay in the 100K area...but couldn't find what I wanted so I really stretched my budget to go the 135K...taking 50K from my local Bank to do that...meaning payments until I can sell my house and I'll tell you now the 100K is coming from my cashed IRA and savings...and I sure don't want to go bigger than 40'...I want to be comfortable behind that wheel...and I wouldn't be in a 45 footer towing my toad...can't back up...unh uh...lol...

Hugs Always Viv...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coloradobus

Viv,

I PM'd you about this coach.http://staleycoach.com/48793%20-%2094%20MARATHON.htm

---

Here is some feedback that I have been able to grab on to:

Max Naylor who is listed at the address Viv is supposed to go to below also is listed in New Buffalo Pa. max appears to be in the racing business, builds race cars races etc. his pictures and background all look good, especially if he really owns a 1993 Prevost H340. I bet it is his race Bus, could be good could be bad., but the man is for real, I do not seem to be able to get a number on him.

Max R Naylor
139 Old Trail Rd
Duncannon Pa 17020

48 Mill St
New Buffalo Pa 17069

NHRA Driver Mailbox: Pro Stock
Max Naylor 48 Mill Street New Buffalo, PA 17069. Website: www.naylorracing.com. David Nickens Nickens Brothers Racing Engines 200 Beach Aitport Road ...
www.nhra.com/drivers/mailbox/prostock.html - 8k - Cached - Similar pages -

http://blogs.nhra.com/nhrablogs.asp?blog=naylor

2008, JARMAX, LLC ...
File Format: Shockwave Flash
... A N O M O P Naylor is FUELED and Ready Max Naylor Powered by a New Fuel, VegasFuel. ... LLC JARMAX, LLC 48 Mill Street New Buffalo, Pennsylvania 17069 .

If any members are involved in the race business you might have heard of Max Naylor, any clues would be nice.

OOOHHHH !!!!

This is my Cell Phone Number...and I don't have the new one yet...but my house number is... 732-458-3480...I gave POG my Cell number because I expected to be on the road and in Fl...for the winter...but I'm still home in NJ..

I hope he see's this because I don't have a phone number I could call him at...

Well...my Jack in the Box is still working...I'm up again....and it's only been minutes since I thought I wouldn't be going to Pa.....LOL...I'm sure glad I didn't touch my overnighter case...

Maybe some one can give Jim my house number...Please...

Hugs Always Viv...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 0533

Viv, please make contact with "Jim" Colorado Bus, Jim is in Ohio I believe right now and may be able to meet you at the bus??? Viv's # 732-779-1227

Viv give Jim "Colorado Bus your phone # so he can make contact. I would also call Steve Katz Cell # (239) 229-8207 and tell him you are bringing a POG friend along to see the bus and meet Max, inspect the bus before making your final decision to purchase, need directions phone # for Max.

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I have exhausted my leads at this point and have given you some incorrect advice as well Viv.

here we go:

Max R Naylor who was listed as the owner of 139 Old Trail rd Duncannon Pa where Steve Katz wanted you to go is also listed at Rd #4 Duncannon Pa Ph# 717-839- 4318 no answer.

Max Naylors rd#4 address cross references to the following:

Naylor Automotive
maps.google.com

10349 Winterstown Rd
Red Lion, PA 17356
(717) 246-1183
Get directions

I believe this Naylor to be the same and it does tie into the racing car theme etc.

here is the bottom line Viv, I was mistaken about Colorado Bus he is not in the area, and as such I strongly do not recommend that you drive to either location until we can determine where the bus is and if we can get someone who is qualified to meet you at the location, enough said. On Monday I will call the dealership and track down Max and his bus if there is one.

Lets put all on hold until we can source out Max, the bus and the deal speak with Max and see who is on first with the bus.

What was that huge WHEW for Darl... I guess I'm naieve...
Hugs Viv...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darl-Wilson

Whew!!!!!!!

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0533,

Bruce, we AREN"T in Ohio now. My mother flew into Denver last night and she is here. Sorry for the misunderstanding. If we were there, then we could have helped.

Hi Bruce,

No Problem whatever.!!!..I now see a Name and Phone number for the first time...You're amazing..~!!!. Pilot at 18 too...My goodness.!!.

Now you know what I saw on www.zillow.com when I put Max's house address...and now I can understand the address but I'd probably have a hard time finding it...if I had to go to the house..but it the business was on Rt. 11 & 15 which I think it might be...It might have been okay to find..

I'll wait and watch the List/Group...for Posts...or anyone can call me...
732-458-3480 I'll be right here...

Hugs Viv..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 0533

I have exhausted my leads at this point and have given you some incorrect advice as well Viv.

here we go:

Max R Naylor who was listed as the owner of 139 Old Trail rd Duncannon Pa where Steve Katz wanted you to go is also listed at Rd #4 Duncannon Pa Ph# 717-839- 4318 no answer.

Max Naylors rd#4 address cross references to the following:

Naylor Automotive
maps.google.com

10349 Winterstown Rd
Red Lion, PA 17356
(717) 246-1183
Get directions

I believe this Naylor to be the same and it does tie into the racing car theme etc.

here is the bottom line Viv, I was mistaken about Colorado Bus he is not in the area, and as such I strongly do not recommend that you drive to either location until we can determine where the bus is and if we can get someone who is qualified to meet you at the location, enough said. On Monday I will call the dealership and track down Max and his bus if there is one.

Lets put all on hold until we can source out Max, the bus and the deal speak with Max and see who is on first with the bus.

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Viv,

You said earlier you wanted to stay with a certain budget, This a good thinking. Remember, an asking price for a bus is the owner's "Wish Pice", and not the negotiated price that you might pay for the bus. Ex. Your prospective bus lists at $150,000. You may be able to get that price lower with some negotitation. Just a thought. If possible, try to never pay the owner's "Wish Price" advertized selling price.

I sent Viv a copy of the ad for my bus and she said she wasnt interested because she wanted a walk thru bath and a side mounted bed.
Maybe if I break out the chainsaw and crow bar I could make that happen for her, and still be, at or below the $100,000.00 she wanted to spend.

P.S. hi Viv, glad to see you didnt give up on buying a bus after all.
Good luck, and if you find one in the massachusetts area I know a good mechanic to check things out for you if you need one.

Viv, if you get your money back,here are two more to look at.

http://www.heartlandbus.com/VehicleD...m?StockNo=1439

http://www.heartlandbus.com/VehicleD...m?StockNo=1533

If I remember correctly they meet your criteria everywhere except they do not have two couches.

Not sure if either has cruise control, so ask.

Make a substantially lower offers if you like them. In 18 days they will be one calendar year older.



Good luck, JIM:)

Hi Ed and Nancy,

I won't ever give up..I've been down about it quite a few times with disappointments but in a day or so I've put it behind me and start looking again...

Years ago I believed it could never happen for me because I'd never have enough money but the last 3 yrs...I knew it was possible..and the hunt really began.. but I also still know ...What Will Be Will Be...

I print out any posts that might help down the road...and this is one of them Ed and Nancy...I'll remember the mechanic mention...but you just forget about that Chain Saw and Crow Bar...LOL..

Hugs Always Viv...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wrongagain

I sent Viv a copy of the ad for my bus and she said she wasnt interested because she wanted a walk thru bath and a side mounted bed.
Maybe if I break out the chainsaw and crow bar I could make that happen for her, and still be, at or below the $100,000.00 she wanted to spend.

P.S. hi Viv, glad to see you didnt give up on buying a bus after all.
Good luck, and if you find one in the massachusetts area I know a good mechanic to check things out for you if you need one.

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Hi Jim,

I have no idea what's happening with the Duncannon Lady...Steve Katz never sent me the e-mail with the address to go to..like the first time and it's again 9:00 at night...another all day wait for him...

Thank you for the URL's...
The One #1533 at Heartland has the floor plan...so if the Duncannon Lady doesn't pan out I could start a new hunt with that...but I'd wait until after Christmas before I start looking again...

Hugs Always Viv...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JIM CHALOUPKA

Viv, if you get your money back,here are two more to look at.


http://www.heartlandbus.com/VehicleD...m?StockNo=1533

If I remember correctly they meet your criteria everywhere except they do not have two couches.

Not sure if either has cruise control, so ask.

Make a substantially lower offers if you like them. In 18 days they will be one calendar year older.



Good luck, JIM:)

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Viv,

I am reluctant to step in to this do-do but I guess I can find a brush to clean up with.

First of all, if you are at the extent of your ready cash at $100,000, you would be FOOLISH to get a loan on your present home. I don't care if it is a castle, with the way prices are, someone will screw you to the wall knowing that you have promised some of it to purchase the "expensive " bus. The prices of property are down, or don't you know that? You will not get near what you want. Knowing you, no one will be without the knowledge you have a big-ass bus and how much you owe on it, etc., etc.

As for Duncannon, I thought it was familiar. I travel thru there twice a year and it is in the sticks of Pa north of Harrisburg.

You would be a lot better off getting a bus closer to $100,000. But don't listen to me. I just happen to have a 90 for sale, but it has a private toilet. I guess you would rather sit out in the open than have privacy. Hell, who am I trying to convince? You haven't convinced us that this story is real.

Oh, by the way.....I will need only $4900.00 deposit for you to see my coach in sunny Florida.

I'm tired out from reading the saga and writing this. Good nite Viv, sleep tight, don't let the bedbugs bite.

OOOHHH Bless You Lew...

For the first time in days I feel like I can really laugh ...

You sure read my floor plan likes and dislikes closely didn't you...When I was a kid I developed that phobia..in the outhouse...!!!!

Forget your 4900 deposit too Lew...Not ever again ...lol..

I know you're trying to talk sense to me...but you're not wearing my shoes...Yours fit good but I still feel the pinch of the ones I got from the Children't Home Free once a month when I was a Dirt Poor Kid...and I can still rough it today...and be glad to to realize My Dream...

I hope more here can understand that...you have to have roughed it to be able to...

I slept half the day away today from pure stress...but my daughter was here last night and she's been kind of against my buying the bus, heck it's her inheritance I'll be squandering in her eyes right...but she's realized her dreams already...and admitted she's spent way too many years just working...

Gave me a big hug when she left and said ...Go for it Mom...I know how much it means to you...!!!! and incidently...She has 18 acres of land in Bayville, NJ..and I can park free there...Forever...That's a big help, isn't it...and of course I have half an acre here...

I needed that more than all of you guys approving...As long as I can make ends meet...I'd love to have that bus...and I don't see why I can't take the chance as long as it doesn't doesn't need major repairs...

That's my only worry...Maybe I can make the seller wait until I can get a mechanic to at least go over it before I buy...if all else looks okay to me...What do you think of that...???

Also Max is in the Racing business...he knows the bus...and maybe he'll tell me the truth...I am trusting to a fault I know...I wonder if I should try to call him.....Nooo....of course I haven't...but I did want to...

I don't want anything else in life and I sure can't take the money with me in a hearse...besides maybe Hospitals and Doctors would wind up getting it if I don't use it while I can ... Smile... I don't really expect that tho'...so do I go to Pa. tomorrow or not...??????

The Good Lord's had my angel on my shoulder for over a million miles in my life and I sure trust Him...

All I've ever wanted was to drive...It's the joy of my life..unusual for a woman I know...but I'm my fathers' daughter..he built his own first car...

Just say a prayer for me and I'll go for broke...as long as no one comes back and still thinks it's unsafe for me to go tomorrow...I'd be happy just to be in it for awhile...I'm not afraid now...Bruce took care of that...I have much better feelings about it...
************************************************** ***
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and to top it all off....I just got this e-mail from Steve Katz...He's been cagey about everything...such a liar...I don't trust him..one iota...

I don't know how he managed to get that time on his e-mail...'cause I just got it a minute ago...and came back to POG to Post it...

Hugs and Always Love for all of you people...Viv...
************************************************** ****
----- Original Message -----
From: PrevostTrader
To: Vivian A. McGraw
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: Making a last effort to get to...See, Drive, and Inspect..The Bus in Duncannon, Pa...

The bus is located at 12 High St, New Buffalo,Pa 17069. This is very close to the address I originally gave you. It is where it is stored indoors(a very good thing). When you get there look for a sign that says Reaction Graphics and call me at (239)229-8207. I will let Max know you are there.
Remember Max has hired PrevostTrader to handle any business. He is there to show you the coach only.
Here are the directions from Mapquest:
************************************************** ******

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lewpopp

Viv,

I am reluctant to step in to this do-do but I guess I can find a brush to clean up with.

First of all, if you are at the extent of your ready cash at $100,000, you would be FOOLISH to get a loan on your present home. I don't care if it is a castle, with the way prices are, someone will screw you to the wall knowing that you have promised some of it to purchase the "expensive " bus. The prices of property are down, or don't you know that? You will not get near what you want. Knowing you, no one will be without the knowledge you have a big-ass bus and how much you owe on it, etc., etc.

As for Duncannon, I thought it was familiar. I travel thru there twice a year and it is in the sticks of Pa north of Harrisburg.

You would be a lot better off getting a bus closer to $100,000. But don't listen to me. I just happen to have a 90 for sale, but it has a private toilet. I guess you would rather sit out in the open than have privacy. Hell, who am I trying to convince? You haven't convinced us that this story is real.

Oh, by the way.....I will need only $4900.00 deposit for you to see my coach in sunny Florida.

I'm tired out from reading the saga and writing this. Good nite Viv, sleep tight, don't let the bedbugs bite.

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Hi Viv,

Why don't you just get hooked up with a outfit like California Coach Sales?? That way you will be able to have the piece of mind that someone is not trying to take advantage of you!! I'am not pushing this outfit but I'am sure he will help ya. My friend bought one from him last week and was very pleased. That other outfit has nothing to offer but head aches!!

Hi Viv,

Its thirteen below here in the Mile High City. Good luck tomorrow, and Chris and I will raise a frosty glass of OJ to you in the morning.:D

Nooooo Jim & Chris,

I sure hope it's not like that where I'm going...Thanks for the Toast...
I'll toast You all tonight in the motel, with a shot of Chambord...Found a Red Carpet one min. away from Max's Place..!! Smile..

Hugs Always Viv...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coloradobus

Hi Viv,

Its thirteen below here in the Mile High City. Good luck tomorrow, and Chris and I will raise a frosty glass of OJ to you in the morning.:D

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Morning Dear Friends, Get ready for another but last BOOK...

Hopefully this will be the last Post about the Lady In Duncannon or Buffalo, Pa.

Thanks to you Bruce and my printing out this Post of yours...I was able to find Max..

When I got To Buffalo I had just passed a Sign for Duncannon...so I went into a Restaurant near Market St. as the MapQuest Directions Said and called Steve Katz...His phone did not answer at all...after several tries...
It was a very small town so I rode up and down and around town looking for Max Naylor's business...It was nowhere...Then I stopped in a Bar and sure enough the younger people in there knew of him and his Racing with NASCAR...but not until I showed them the picture I'd printed out of Max's Racing Website...They had seen the Tractor Trailers parked on a hill in town..with his advertisement on them..

They gave me directions right straight to Max Naylor...and I never would have found it without their directions...

As I pulled up the steep hill to the Trucks I now saw parked up there too...I also saw a man walking in the yard...He came closer as he saw my car approaching..and then I recognized it was Max himself, from the pictures I'd seen last night on the Net...Bruce...

I told him who I was and asked him if I could see the Lady...He was very pleaant and told me it was right there in a huge warehouse he pointed to...
.Best thing I ever did was go yesterday and see the Lady in Buffalo, Pa..
It was the biggest eyeopener I ever got in my life...You know I'd never been inside a Liberty Elegant Lady...only seen pictures...thought they were all about the same size except for more luxury and some being longer....I drove several of the lower end Prevosts like the 92 Country Coach that I could, would and should have owned 2 whole years by now ...
What I saw yesterday blew my mind..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.It was ten times more beautiful than the pictures...it was PERFECT in every way that I could see and tell...the inside was FABULOUS...!!!! I'll say no more because many of you have seen and lived in one...I hadn't even been in one like this..was always going by pictures...I had no problem at all with the several Pre's I've driven ...but none were this height...12" 8" not counting the Satellite on the Roof...!!!!
Jon, Joe, The engine kicked right over...there is a short intended delay before the Generator kicks over...There was a little oil on a post like part in the Generator..Both ran smoothly...I could see no oil on any tires or hub caps...No scratches or mars anywhere on the Coach...Front tires are new... and bigger rear view mirrors Max had improved for 6K ...he told me... set lower for his preference, and rightly soo..smile...
But it was sooooo high ceilinged I was actually afraid to drive it...Max did offer to let me...He was a wonderful gentleman...It was beyond my wildest Dream...and if I wasn't alone I'd have given everything I have to get it...but I am alone...and I can't do it...
I was in 7th Heaven sitting in that drivers seat but when I looked up I actually felt nauseaus..The ceiling is sooo high..I can't say that enough times..That and the bay doors...keep me from being able to have it...
.Max said don't look up...but I couldn't help it...lol...
What I can't do at all is lift the huge bay doors up and then I can't reach them to pull them back down...So I'd have to have help anytime I wanted to get into a bay...Not good...I've done everything possible to make my Dolphin so I could be independent...
Yesterday I drove my tow car from 9:30 AM..stopping only to spend an hour with Max in and around his Liberty...after two hours ot trying to find his place...eat feed & walk my Maltese Saffy..Arrived home at 11:30 PM...I guess I spent 10 full hours driving...got gas twice...a hot 8 dollars it took the first time to refill and. 9 dollars the second time..tah dahhhh....but I got myself good and lost trying to read the MapQuest Directions backwards to return home...Forget it..Impossible..took 4 hours up to Buffalo, Pa..and 6 or more back to NJ...lol...The tank still reads full...but I think it lies a little..I think I covered at least 600 miles..

That proves I have the stamina to do what I set out to do...

I could transfer my automatic cord winders for the elec.and water from my Dolphin to a bus...but not a 50amp...mine are 30 amp.winders.. I could never pull that 50 amp elec. cord out by myself..much less wind it up again...
The Country Coach I bought in Fl...and never got to bring home...I could open and close the bay doors..they were no where near as big as the Lady's...the ceiling wasn't near as high as the Lady's is...

These are the reasons I can't buy the Lady in Buffalo, Pa...so I'll look for a County Coach like the 92 I missed...at Eagles Pride in Fl...

If anyone here is in the market for a Lady...It's my belief ...you could have a Palace on Wheels...if you looked at Max's...

Someone buy it and take me for a ride in it...Please...

Ever since I waked up this morning I keep wondering if it might not have looked so big outside that warehouse hanger Max keeps it in...the thing looked big enough to hold a jet plane...It was a good walk to the bus parked up in front...

I will find the bus for me...Count on it...I promise...

Merry Christmas...

Hugs Always Love Viv..
PS: Incidently the only thing I didn't like about it was that green stripe that runs around the middle of the Coach...and I told Max...he countered with look what you're wearing ...a green suit...lol...but it's different when the green is in clothes...lol...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 0533

Here is some feedback that I have been able to grab on to:

Max Naylor who is listed at the address Viv is supposed to go to below also is listed in New Buffalo Pa. max appears to be in the racing business, builds race cars races etc. his pictures and background all look good, especially if he really owns a 1993 Prevost H340. I bet it is his race Bus, could be good could be bad., but the man is for real, I do not seem to be able to get a number on him.

Max R Naylor
139 Old Trail Rd
Duncannon Pa 17020

48 Mill St
New Buffalo Pa 17069

NHRA Driver Mailbox: Pro Stock
Max Naylor 48 Mill Street New Buffalo, PA 17069. Website: www.naylorracing.com. David Nickens Nickens Brothers Racing Engines 200 Beach Aitport Road ...
www.nhra.com/drivers/mailbox/prostock.html - 8k - Cached - Similar pages -

http://blogs.nhra.com/nhrablogs.asp?blog=naylor

2008, JARMAX, LLC ...
File Format: Shockwave Flash
... A N O M O P Naylor is FUELED and Ready Max Naylor Powered by a New Fuel, VegasFuel. ... LLC JARMAX, LLC 48 Mill Street New Buffalo, Pennsylvania 17069 .

If any members are involved in the race business you might have heard of Max Naylor, any clues would be nice.

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While you are still thinking clearly about the purchase it might be a good idea to draft and send the letter of withdrawal to Steve Katz. Did you tell Max you were not going to purchase the bus?? Was he aware you were coming?? Did you or will you call Max and ask him to ask Steve to return the deposit. Get the due diligence stuff done now.