Jdub: Since its your bus, I would have thought that the unusual tire wear would be on the drivers' side.
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Jdub: Since its your bus, I would have thought that the unusual tire wear would be on the drivers' side.
King,
There has been a serious taco drought along the Texas gulf coast, so the only folks living large around here are the government employees (see Loc McNew). I'm probably going to have to sell some aluminum cans to pay for this bushing job.
JDUB
I was amazed at how much the new sway bar bushings tightened up the ride on mine when I had them replaced. One of the few times I had work done on a vehicle where you can actually feel a difference.
We arrived last night at Prevost Nashville. This new Prevost facility is the nicest I've seen anywhere in the nation. The floors are spotless, the mechanics are great and it doesn't get much better than being able to free walk under your bus for extended inspections. I knew coming in that I needed front link (dogbone) busings but to my surprise the rears were bad too.
http://swaimquest.com/images/frt%20p...0tore%20up.JPG
all bushings that were removed were poly and had wore crumbled and sin some cases fell out in three years and 20K miles. For that reason, I decided to go back to rubber bushings.
http://swaimquest.com/images/new%20rubber%20bushing.JPG
I've heard that trucks enjoy extended life from poly but since we squat our bus when leveling it, I feel it destorts the poly bushings beyond their capability making them prematurely fall apart. When the dogbones were all back in place squating the bus put a bind on the rubber but didn'tt permanently distort the bushing when back up to ride height. Only time will tell if it oulasts the poly.
:confused:
Our suspension travel does not cause the problems. Rob Russell's entertainer coaches all have leveling systems and they are leveled every night when on the road. Since his are averaging over 400,000 miles before replacement he does not think it is a leveling or number of cycles issue, but of the material aging out.
Roger and I had a lengthy discussion with Rob about this issue and the only conclusion that we could come up with regarding the ridiculously short miles on our coaches to failure of the bushings may be age.
Here is a picture of one of the lower front sway bar link bushings removed from my bus, all of the link bushings top and bottom were completely intact no cracks, torn or missing sections. The bushing bores were elliptical from center to one side and the bushing on the other side of the link was also elliptical from center but indexed 180 degrees, similar to the top right and bottom left of an hour glass.
I'll leave it to the mob to decide what caused this.
Note: this bus it was driven only 900 miles in 5 years prior to our purchase, we fixed that we are at 20K in about a year and a half.
Gary,
From your pictures it looks like a two piece bushing was installed and you replaced them with a different style, possibly a one piece bushing - is that correct? Had they been replaced before or were they original to your coach?
Could weight be an issue here, causing torque on the bolts going through the bushings. What is the difference in an entertainers coaches weight and a MH coach?
Another thing, these product could be like tires in that if they are not flexing causing the oils to redistribute from use they dry out and crack.
I learned from Prevost Parts there are two types of bushings available. The poly ones which are two peice for ease of installation & are red in color. The other type are rubber and are one peice, these are black. Although oils and such can cause rubber to prematurely breakdown in commercial duty service, I chose to go with rubber. The reason being, I suspect lowering our bus at weird angles during leveling puts a lot of stress on the bushings. I suspect rubber will flex better and allow the bushings to accept this stress better. I've just completed a full independent wheel weighing of my bus, so weight was not the culprit. I am however surprised that the right side of my non-slide bus is heavier by 700 pounds than the left. My generator is on one side and the batteries are directly across from them so that isn't the culprit. My front storage bay is practically empty so that has no affect either. I'm at a loss why the weight differencial. My tire wear is perfectly even and the handling is great so I'm not all that worried about this.
The failed poly busings in my bus were only 3 years old with 30K miles on them. I didn't put these miles on them so I can't tell you what they were like. I can tell you it was a professional truck driver that did put those miles on and he parked where the incline wasn't all that severe but lowered the bus to the ground during stops. In any case, I've replaced all of my bushings with the one peice rubber front and rear, so I will see what happens and report to all my findings.
With all the reports of issues with bushings and the number of owners that have experienced problems I truly believe Prevost has a design issue. IFS was all the rage when it first came out, but with the history of service problems something is wrong.
Greg asks about the weight which is a valid question. I know from Rob Russell that he loads to the axle limit, but tries very hard to get his drivers to not exceed those limits. I also know his coaches are dropped and raised as necessary to keep them level, just like our coaches. I know he gets over 400,000 miles out of his bushings.
Until Gary just posted his bushings were only 3 years old I was leaning towards age, but apparently that is not the issue.
I remember when Prevost made an excellent product and then stood behind it.
I see this ALL the time! I have a coach at Josams as we speak with 40k miles getting new sway bar and upper control arm bushings. The upper sway bar bushings are completely gone...as in not there. Both front and rear sway bars look like this. This coach is an 05. The bushings on the lower are rubber and split real bad. The common thing I see with all of them is the threaded pin the bushings ride on are ALWAYS rusty and galled. It's just like the 365 tires. If the coach sets, the tire has a greater chance of coming apart in 15-20k miles versus one that gets drove like passenger buses and get 100k out of them. You guys should look at those upper control arm bushings really close on the IFS coaches.
I wonder if there is a pattern to the bushing issue? I am not affected, but if I were I would gather information from companies running Prevost seated coaches and gather information from motorhome owners. I think this problem is serious enough that there should be a recall and a permanent fix.
Our cars have had similar front end designs and you almost never hear anyone replacing A arm bushings.
Okay, here is the report from my trip to Prevost.
We got the coach up on the lift and the sway bar bushings were indeed in a bad way. Then the technician says, "If the front ones are this bad, I'll bet the back ones are in the same shape". So we go to the rear (I didn't seem to remember there was a sway bar in the back) and sure enough, they are worse.
So we go back to the front and he says, "These control arm bushings are okay." So we go look at the driver side and notice that the tire on that side has some abnormal wear on the inside of the tire. Remember, the first sign was the abnormal wear on the outside of the pass. side tire. Upon further inspection, he notices that the lower control arm is slightly bent. Looks kinda like someone put a jack under it to try and lift the coach.
Okay, then I say, "Well why would the right tire be worn if the left lower control arm is bent?" We get to looking at the upper control arm on the right hand side and it has, as the technician says, "A whole bunch of shims" on it or at least more than he typically is used to seeing.
Anyway, he replaces all the sway bar bushings, the lower control arm on the left side, both front tires and then they align it. And while it didn't drive badly before (other than the sway bar banging around), it really drove well on the way home. Very smooth. And I don't know if the sway bar bushing wear might manifest itself as a bump steer problem, but given the crappy state of the roads in and around Dallas, I would say that having all the suspension components working properly made the trip home much more enjoyable.
Attachment 6744
This might(?) be a case of a bad batch/manufacturer rather than the proper material's normal performance. And it may happen occasionally with 'rubber'/neoprene as well. Quality control (or shelf life?) may be the culprit as well. I don't know but I will try and find out. I haven't looked at mine yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by GSwaim
I have about 60k on my 02 the front sway bar bushings were replaced last year and the rears this year. They certinally do not stand the test of time on our coaches. Apparantly the miles do not appear to matter either. The local charter company with 50 plus prevost stock them so that leads me to think it's not designed for the use it is getting. They are not listed on the lubrication and service schedule from prevost either. An annual check on them appears to be in order.