Would those be manual valves around in the service areas, or solenoid controlled from the dash area? I suppose each converter treats it differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cannarozzi
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Would those be manual valves around in the service areas, or solenoid controlled from the dash area? I suppose each converter treats it differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cannarozzi
Jim,the converters do treat them differently.The marathon that I owned had a 12volt heat switch which turned on the webasto it could also be turned on with another switch to preheat the series 60,each switch also switched a solenoid open for water flow,both switches could be turned on at the same time.Also there was 2 hot water heaters that are 10.5 gallons each with a 110 volt circuit which will only allow one heater element on at a time,the water heaters also have a heat exchanger for the webasto and the DD.There is also a 110 volt heater for the DD.Liberty only has one switch which turns on the webasto and the water pump,it will heat the domestic hot water and the DD,to get heat in the coach there are thermostats that turn on the heat exchangers.There is a 20 gallon 110 volt water heater with heat exchanger and the DD also has a 110 volt heater as well.When traveling there is a webasto light on the dash that tells me the pump is running,it is never lit if the bus air is on.the two systems are totally different,I think that Liberty needs the 80,000 BTU system because they always heat the DD.There are ball valves in the system to turn off the heat to the DD,but I have not needed to yet.I hope this makes sense.Jack
Jim,
Jack outlined it pretty well. The Liberty had a plethora of manual valves to control Webasto heated coolant (Jon at one time diagramed them) but I never messed with them as I could never tell with any certainty which did what and as long as the system worked I was happy. I also wonder if Liberty didn't use the higher BTU as it was usually their way of doing things - bigger is better. No idea, just a guess.
The smaller Webasto has no problem keeping the H nice an toasty. We dry camped in the parking lot of Snowshoe ski area in WV last year for 4 days during a blizzard. Winds up to 45mph and 20 degrees outside at the top of the mountian, our camping spot, and we were snug as a diamond in a goats ass (oops wrong Texan analogy).
The Webasto in the H has all it's coolant plumbing controlled by solenoid valves, and there is a switch on the dash for block heat. At this point I don't know if that directs the Webasto coolant to the engine, separately or if it is part of the electric block heat. I know the switch doesn't control the 110v outlet that the block heat cable plugs into, as it always powered.
The webasto uses the same coolant as the engine, so if you're running down the road with the 12v heat on (secret Marathon code for Webasto heat) as long as the coolant temp is up, the Webasto doesn't need to fire, although now the circulation pump is running. Supplying heated coolant to the mini interior radiators and the jacket that surrounds both the 10 gallon water heaters.
Since I never know when the Webasto is firing, I'm going to install a pilot light and an hour meter on the fuel pump/fan blower motor of the Webasto to see it's actual run time.
Mike
Excellent idea about a pilot light and hour meter.
Since I come from the old school that likes steam gauges and system information I think any way to tell the system status is beneficial, and especially when there is a need for trouble shooting.
I know that with my valving arrangement I can heat the bus, the engine or both. Because on a bitter cold day the engine has tremendous heat loss, so I suspect the unit is oversized for that reason.
Like Mike we have run down the road with the Webasto engaged but likely not firing because the engine was at temp. It would be nice to have a set of small pilot lights to verify the Webasto pump has power to it, and to know when the burner is firing. Except for the blower motors inside the coach (which are louder than the engine) I have no indicator the Webasto is turned on.
Damn...another project. Thanks a lot Mike.
Well Jon, I was thanking you for the same thing. Another project.
Attachment 2034
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I found that in our 99 Marathon I never turned the 12V heat or 12V water heat on when driving and we had VERY hot water. When I was having fun trying to find out why when on 12V water heat the Webasco would start cycling after running only 5 minutes, Marathon recommended taking the return solenoid valves out of the system, mine had already been gutted so I removed them and installed ball valves in there place.
The water pump on the DD will push coolant past the webasco circulation pump as long as the valve to the water heater is open. It is my opinion that having the hot water always receiving coolant is a good thing. You just don't want the hot water going thru the base heaters due to increase temp in the coach when not needed.
Thanks all for a very thorough answer.
So Ken brought the burner unit to my house yesterday morning. Today we attacked the rebuild.
The Aqua Hot people indicated to me that their unit used exactly the same burner pieces as Webasto. In fact the new pump I received indicated Webasto on the pump.
Evidently somewhere in the past there were 7 or 8 bar pumps (101 or 116 psi) pumps, which used a .60 nozzle. They've upgrade the pumpbs to 10 bar (145 psi) and reduced the nozzles to .35.
As it turned out, mine was either already upgrade, or was originally manufactured that way.
In taking the unit apart, we couldn't find an obvious source of the leak, although it seemed it was coming from the inlet pipe, perhaps around the inner washer. The washers were much bigger than received in the new kit.
Rather than just remove the pipe and replace, we went ahead with the pump replacement. So, all in all we replaced, pump, hi-pressure line to manifold, fuel inlet/outlet lines and grommits, banjo bolts and washers.
Repair went pretty much without hitch. Had to purchase a split ring pliers to remove a snap ring on the back of the pump, but the washer broke when we tried to remove it. Luckily was able to find a suitable replacement at Pep Boys.
Put the unit in the bus, and fired it up and it worked, with no leaks. Some white smoke for just a couple of minutes, and some residual due to leaked fuel down in the exhaust area. All that cleared up after about 10 minutes of running. Water in coach was hot, and heaters blew hot as well.
All in all, total success!
Here's a few pictures from the event:
This is Ken, before we got to work this morning!
Attachment 2036
Most of the hardware removed:
Attachment 2035
Ain't nothing smoking now, 'cept maybe Ray
Attachment 2037
Nice job Webasto Kings.
mm
The west coast Webasto experts.
With Mango covering the east, JDUB in south central all we need is upper midwest representation, Dale J.
Mango, you remain the king! We are but your humble students! :DQuote:
Nice job Webasto Kings
As a final check before we were going to leave town to ski in West Virginia, dry camping, I decided to check the Webasto.
Of course it wouldn't fire.
Naturally my wife chimes in with "so what's the problem, you're the Webasto king". Yes dear.
Fuel was flowing, the blower motor was working, the nozzle was new so the only thing missing was the starting spark.
I decided to remove the coil (Webasto calls it the Electronic Ignition Unit) to apply power directly to see if I could get a spark.
Attachment 2309
Electronic Ignition Unit
This is what I discovered on the bottom side, hid from view.
Attachment 2310
Somehow it self destructed from the inside out. No workie here.
From the manual:
Attachment 2311
I'm going to call Webasto to see if they have any idea what caused the failure. And I wish I had tested the unit a day earlier, I could have had the part before I left town.
The Webasto is a pretty basic unit, so don't be shy in doing some basic examination work if it doesn't fire.
... and the camping. We had to rely on the electric baseboard heat. Thank you Prevo for multiple systems.
Mike
Kevin Erion's webasto had a bad coil. Kevin spoke with a repairman who indicated to put 12(24) volts directly across the wires of the coil, and to do this 200 times. IF it failed even once, to replace the unit.
The unit was replaced, and last report from Kevin was that it's working great. Good news is that it's trivial to replace.
No clue as to why it would self destruct like your picture!
Ray
I talked with Webasto headquarters (1-800-555-4518, 1 - tech help/ Tracy) in Michigan today and here's their response.
Tracy, the longtime tech, has never seen a coil failure like this (I sent him the email photo).
We suspect that since webasto was never used by the previous California owner that one of the three mini relays inside of the "brain" controller unit was sticking from lack of use. I had a problem previously with the fan blower inside the unit not shutting down after it's cool down period and had to depower the Webasto to get it shut down. One of the those three relays control that blower the other one controls the ignition coil (which only works for a few seconds while the unit is starting) and the third controls the coolant pump.
If this relay to the coil did stick it wouldn't take long to fry the inside of that coil according to the tech.
I've already ordered a new coil, ($228 part # 101 846 for the 24v version) but now will order the brain as I don't want to take chance of that relay (if that's the problem) sticking again and burning up another coil.
Mike
Ray,
I can't image Kevin taking the time to test that coil 200 times. Although he is an anal detail guy, he would just write the check and replace it.
I don't think he had to test even a dozen times. His Webasto would fail to fire 24 out of 25 tries! I believe his test immediately showed the unit to be bad.Quote:
I can't image Kevin taking the time to test that coil 200 times. Although he is an anal detail guy, he would just write the check and replace it.
Ray
Between the new coil and a new brain you better sell some more jerked chicken this week. I think the brain is the most expensive part on the whole unit. Or at least of the parts I have bought. So far.
201 times tested before I cut loose with the cash! We get back to the run at least once a month rule, Mr Webasco King!