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Thats great advice.. I'll look to buy one from a POG'er who is looking to upgrade. I honestly don't know why I didn't realize this before. I assume the primary listing spot to find such a unit would be Prevost-stuff.com, correct? Obviously anyone reading this who has a 1995-2000 well maintained Prevost coach for sale can PM me as well. Thank you guys!
Shannon,
Definitely let aesthetics be a major decision maker. Remodeling and repainting costs can be extremely high. Sure, it’s not bad replacing furniture, but changing the basic floorplan should be avoided.
With that said, any older coach purchase should include three pre purchase inspections. One on the drivetrain, one on the chassis, and one on the conversion.
You picked the best converter for the coach years you are interested in when you selected CC. Of course, I'm partial to CC. Some coaches have needless (IMHO) automation, the need to always use a high pressure water pump, and the need to always have auxiliary air on. Where CC shines (IMHO) is that their electrical switching system is very robust and not reliant on any software or programmed logic.
The major differences between converters are air conditioning systems, electrical systems, and plumbing.
While driving you may want to stay cool. I believe all coaches were equipped with Prevost Dash Air which is identical to what you would find in most cars. To cool the rest of the coach you have engine driven systems or the use of the 120VAC systems used when parked. For engine driven systems, you will have the choice of Prevost Over the Road Air found in Liberties, and some other conversions. This, (IMHO) is overkill given it was designed for 55 passengers and full sided windows. This 35+HP engine driven compressor will certainly keep you cold, but it’s way more than needed. It also occupies the 2 half bays on either side of the fuel tank. CC installed their own version of OTR air that uses a much smaller compressor and doesn’t take any bay storage. I have never had a cooling problem with mine.
While parked, and in some cases while driving, you will have roof air, basement air, or split systems from Cruise-Air. Roof airs are the only choice with new coaches as Cruise-Air has exited the non-marine market. Roof airs are cheap, easily replaced, but noisier than the other options. Basement air is the quietest, but uses the most bay space. These are self-contained units like those that you would find in mobile homes. Cruise-Airs take up bay space, aren’t as easily maintained, and the most costly to repair or replace. Some complain the Cruise-Airs and basement models don’t provide enough cool air on hot days while on hot pavement based on where the equipment is located. If any other these are intended to cool the coach while driving you will likely have Trace 4KW inverters and your house battery system will likely be 24V. Trace made a very robust inverter, but over complex for most users. If you have Prevost or CC OTR air then your house battery bank is likely 12V and your inverters are likely 2.5KW.
Some coaches have Headhunter toilets that require high pressure. Because of this the coach must always use a high pressure water pump. Other coaches have toilets that rely of gravity to flush.
Some coaches have air-operated doors that require an auxiliary air compressor to always be on. To keep the air compressor noise down most use a very expensive medical compressor.
The Detroit Allison combination are near bullet-proof if given routine maintenance. I recommend a pre purchase inspection done by any certified Detroit/Allison shop. They are almost always one in the same.
Our coaches are heavy at around 50K pounds. Some coaches are too heavy. If you see a coach that has had the flooring changed out to all granite, make sure it is weighed. The IFS found in late 90’s coaches could handle more weight than the straight axle coaches that preceded them. So, straight axle coaches will almost always have carpeted forward flooring.
Let’s stop here and let you digest some of this.
Wow. Thanks for that info Gil! Ready for more when you are. I'm a data junkie right now.
Hi Shannon,
My search took about 5 years (on and off). I specifically wanted a 40' coach and I also wanted a couple bunk beds for kids/guests (turns out this is a fairly rare combination). I agree with the PPI on the engine / transmission, chassis and house is probably money well spent. Also, I think Joe Camper mentioned once - try to live in the coach for as long as the seller is willing to let you. These things are complex machines and you want to try every system to make sure you understand how things work (and if they don't) so you can make an informed purchase decision. I suspect even seasoned campers cannot fully comprehend the systems and how they work in a short period of time. A couple years into ownership - I'm still learning.......
Also, don't underestimate the cost of comsumables (tires, airbags, shocks, batteries, air dryer, brakes, etc....) Others have mentioned the time limits / costs above - use their age as chips during the negotiating process. You don't want to pay full asking price and then need to drop another (possibly large) pile of cash to get everything back to 100%. These are maintenance intensive machines.
Mine is probably the oldest (age wise) on this board but I enjoy the heck out of using it. The ride is fantastic and the control, especially in high cross winds, is second to none. They are simply a delight to drive and camp in.
Good luck!
Dan
Shannon,America is a great country and we can disagree,I disagree with Gil,I would not recomend an orphan coach for your first coach,I believe that a current converter that is still in business would be a better choice.I have owned 3 coaches from Marathon and Liberty and all 3 had Prevost OTR air and cruise airs and I have found that these systems are very robost,I have also owned roof air on a Renegade conversion and yes they are cheap but they also have only lasted about 5 years per unit.When you really start looking you will get a feel for the differences in the systems as well as the interior looks.
Thank you for the info! Keep it coming.. I appreciate all of you guys for taking the time to guide me.
While we are in the "Disagree" mode, I disagree with Jack. I have owned 2 "Orphan" Prevost
coaches including the present one and have had no problems with either. In fact my present coach, a 1995 Vision, has 4 roof top airs, and dash air, and they are all original to the coach. I have found that most of the converters use the same or simular sub systems, ie pumps, toilets, microwaves, ect, so don't be afraid of an orphan coach. In fact take the money you save by buying an orphan and build yourself a building to put your new to you coach in. My first Prevost was a 1985 American conversion with Prevost bus air and heat, which was great, but another coach with roof airs will not be a deal breaker. Find yourself a Prevost coach you like and buy it! Enjoy the ride.
Shannon,
Welcome to POG. Well, we have a CC owner, a Liberty owner, and an Orphan owner all offering their blessings. I may as well chime in as a Vantare owner. LOL! :) I'm drawn to Vantare for their engineering. I know you're looking at 2000 model year and prior coaches. Vantare led the way in Prevost chassis slide development; much of what they accomplished was eventually adopted by Prevost in 2001 and beyond. The difference is the overbuilt methods Vantare used. Vantare slides are non-structural. They don't rely on the slide for structural support and there are no pricey pressurized pneumatic seals, only an automotive style D-profile rubber compression seal. Vantare eschewed pneumatic controls. You won't find air operated doors, dump valves, or windows on a Vantare. This adds up to rarely needing to run your 120VAC aux air compressor. The trouble with running your aux air compressor is that it can overwhelm your air systems with wet air. In the year ranges that your looking at Vantare's can be outfitted with RVAC basement air systems along with CruiseAir systems; sometimes, exclusively CruiseAirs. My coach has 4 CruiseAirs and I find them to be very functional and completely adequate. I'd venture to guess that Vantare built more coaches than the others in the time interval you're looking at. This economy of scale lent itself to a well thought out, executed, and reliable coach. I wouldn't pass on the chance to own a well cared for Vantare.
As you can see, all converters make great products with loyal followings.
Jack points to another difference. Some converters hold their data close to the vest. Some being so restrictive on what they supply owners that they don't even provide fuse and circuit breaker control information. Yes, it would be helpful if all converters were still in business. Even more beneficial would be that the suppliers provided support forever. The fact of the matter is that subsystem components will become obsolete.
Don't fear buying an orphaned coach. The orphaned coaches have a great network of support. In the model years you are looking at you don't have to be too concerned with much in the way of proprietary systems. If the coach has a lot of proprietary systems, then Jack has a great point. If you are looking at newer coaches, with many having a lot of proprietary software controlled systems, then it could be a real benefit to have direct support from the converter.
In the years you are looking all converters did a pretty good job.
Play nice LOL
I had a Hickox it was an 85 and a basket case and an orphan.
When I bought it it was a completly impulsive and ignorant purchase. It was love at first site.
I got lucky it had all its manuals and as mentioned all these conversions use very good components that still have parts available. Heart inverters raritan plumbing fixtures many dayton electrical components.
It had prevost over the road ac and I loved it . Gill is probably correct that may be overkill but so what the entire camper based on a prevo chassis is overkill.
I have had the privlage of working on a few let me pass on some things I have seen and learned.
First if u buy an orphan do not buy one unless it has its full set of manuals. If changes have been made for example with inverters or water heater or such be sure it is also explained and documented completly.
If u get a non prevo house air system look see what the components r used. I know many early 90s cc used a company that is no longer around.
In my humble opinion no converters paid more attention to detail than liberty and marathon and im refering to things that r behind walls and burried not just the things u can see. They r both still around. Hint hint. Did I mention their coustomer service is second to none.
Marathon used red dot ac components and they too r still around. I really like Vogue they r libertyesk in there attention to detail but use roof airs and also use them while driving so they have no ac equipment using bay space in my opinion best of both worlds be sure to look at some. I also love the simplicity of design and wood interiors of Royal conversions. 2 orphans I would not hesitate to buy either
Thats not to say u wont get a bad marathon or liberty i have seen a few got to be careful do your homework.