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Ray,
A free call to these guys would be in order. This is their specialty and they will provide you with a printout per state as the legalities. Worth the call to Alain, you can use my name.
Bennett Law Office
135 W. Main St.
Missoula, MT 59802
866.543.5803
Alain B. Burrese
Mike
The methods the authorities use to catch cheaters goes beyond the local cop seeing the same out of state plate. The tow car plate should match the bus plate. The driver's license should match also.
A Montana LLC for example is a legal way to get around that because you can legally live in CA and drive a vehicle owned by a company you own in another state, but that begs the issue of if the coach is now a commercial vehicle such as the leased entertainer's coaches, thus requiring a commercial license and other things like a DOT inspection?
The whole topic is one of risk versus reward, and the biggest advantage comes in deciding before the coach is purchased what you will do so you not only get favorable licensing costs but sales tax treatment. If you get caught cheating however the consequences are daunting. We were at a PP rally in San Antonio about 15 years ago and an owner of a new bus just paid CA over $75000 in fines, plus the sales tax and registration that was due because he falsely registered the bus in Oregon (I think), registered his new (expensive) tow vehicle in Nevada, and had no residence or business in either. His driver license was CA. That was back when some converters helped buyers evade sales tax with PO Box addresses, which after a year or two would be dropped and the owner would re-register in their home state to beat the tax.
I've heard of some guys getting some stiff fines. I also understand that the majority of the people fined were the ones that parked their coach in plain view so the authorities could see it day after day at their residences.
I own a dude ranch in Montana, dude.
[SIZE="3"]Ray, Look through the adds in the rear of for example Motor Home Mag. There are several attorneys advertising to set up the LLC via. Fax and Mail. You are supposed to get the license and pay the tax to the entity where the bus or anything else will primarrily be used. If you maintain a residence in Ca. and park in a place where your plate can be seen from the road and you drive around town a lot you stand a chance of getting caught. If however you are fulltiming or part timing you would probably be OK as you are not in any one place too long, and that is the circumstance that brought this all about. You can own anything through the LLC but stationary machinery in a plant for example, to avoid the personal property tax would get you into trouble. JIM
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I use Bennett Law Office like Mike suggested and they are pro's at setting this type of thing up to be all legal. They got my existing business licenced to do business IN MONTANA so that it satisfies the letter of the law. I don't tow a vehicle so the aspect of the tow vehicle matching didn't come into play. I've been ID's by a half dozen police in the last 2.5 years since I did it and it has never even come up as a question as to why the tag differs from my California isssued drivers licence. Not so much as a mention.
My coach had Oregon plates on it when I bought it. I had a address available to me in Oregon. I bought plates in Oregon for the first six years. After considering the reasons stated above, and the nosey neighbors I finally changed to CA plates to match my place of residence. In getting my vin number certfied by a CHP to complete the license purchase, I was told; Even if I'm retired and not working in the state, if I claimed a property tax exemption on my place of residence, I must register my vehicles in CA. I have been told by other individuals, you can buy a vehicle in another State and keep it out of state for a prescribed period of time and put on 3,000 - 5,000 miles you can avoid sales tax. Check with CA DMV on that one for sure. However if you bring an expensive Prevost to be licensed here you will be charged large license fees acording to the vehicles current evaluation. My Oregon fees for two years were less than one year in CA and I have an old coach. If you work here, own property here I think you are required under law to buy the license here.
I did not do it out of the goodness of my heart, I did it to avoid penalty. In my opinion you cannot give the State of California enough money to piss away on useless endeavors. They get me for almost ten percent on my retirement income in state income taxes, not to mention sales and a laundry list of other taxes and fees. I owe them nothing, especially for the beat up deteriated roads we drive on.
I'm casting the first vote.
HARRY FOR GOVERNOR!
MM
Just a side note: In Northern Va. you pay a YEARLY personal property tax on all your vehicles to the tune of 4.2% of the appraised value.
Will you please pay my taxes out of the goodness of your heart (or better yet the payments on a 2007 Prevost)? For me, it's a matter of law and if there is a way to legally avoid the tax. In some states you can and in others you can't. There are a few law firms in Montana that will give you a summary of the law based on your state of residence. I wouldn't trust their interpretation (since they do not practice law in your state)... so hire a tax attorney in your state (like I did) to analyze the laws and give you advice to see if it's possible to LEGALLY avoid paying the tax. If you haven't checked the facts, then I would not suggest a Montana Limited Liability Corporation (LLC) since it might not be compatible with the laws in your state of residence.
When you buy a bus using an LLC, the LLC is the legal owner of the bus and it assumes the tax obligations of that purchase. Since the LLC is based in Montana, and Montana doesn't have sales tax, then no tax is owed on the purchase. The key then is to make sure that the laws in your state of residence will not assume you are the owner (instead of the LLC) or have other restrictions that will require you to register the vehicle in your state of residence (like not being able to park an out of state vehicle on your property for more than 30 days, etc.).
I'm a resident of Texas (although I own no land there and have only been there for three days this year) because they have no state income taxes and their laws make it possible to drive a bus that is owned by a Montana LLC. Texas law would require me to register my bus there if I were to have it in the state for more than 30 consecutive days (although even that is not 100% certain since the bus is not owned by me directly... it's owned by the LLC). I have no plans to be there that long, and if I did, I'd just drive over the border and pay to park at an RV park for a night before returning to the state. Other states have different laws that might not be compatible with having a vehicle being registered in a different state, so please get legal advice from a lawyer before making any decision and make sure that info is from someone who practices law in your state. If you're fulltime like me, then you can choose which state is considered your residence and therefor choose a state that is compatible with the Montana thing to avoid paying sales tax.
I could not remain a Colorado resident because their law states something to the effect of: If I'm in control of the vehicle for more than 30 days (regardless if my name is on the title or not, and regardless if I ever take the bus to Colorado or not), then I will be considered the owner and must register the vehicle in Colorado. The key here is that I'd be considered the owner.
I carry a document in the bus that is from the Montana LLC (which legally is the owner of the bus) that states that I have the right to drive the bus (the Montana law firm I used to setup the LLC created this for me). That document can be presented to the highway patrol if you're pulled over to give them an explanation as to why my toad has different plates than the bus (since I own the toad and the LLC owns the bus).
If you were to actually review the laws in most states, you'd find that many of us should have registered our vehicles in states that we have visited (if you were there for more than 30 days). But it's not realistic to change the registration for such visits and I don't know that anyone is checking up on that kind of stuff on a regular basis.
So, if you are at all interested in doing the Montana LLC thing to avoid paying sales tax, you really need to talk to a tax attorney to see if it makes since in your specific situation. It won't work for everyone since you might be a resident of a state that would require you to register the vehicle there (even though your name is not on the vehicle's title).
I will be able to permanently register my Prevost in Montana next year... that means no more yearly registration fees! (that's for coaches that are 10 years old or older).
Please don't try to make people feel guilty for working around the law without violating it. I will not pay taxes out of the goodness of my heart... I'll only do it when it is legally required and I am not able to change my situation in such a way that would allow me to legally avoid the tax. If you have a problem with that, then please try to get the laws changed to make what I'm doing illegal and then I'll stop doing it.
Just drive through any RV park... Jeez, people who live in Montana must make a lot of dough since they seem to own half the rigs in the park and are on vacation all the time. I have yet to meet anyone who has a Montana plate who is actually a resident of Montana. I'm sure they're out there, but I think the majority own an Montana LLC instead.
Nice informative post Ben.
"I carry a document in the bus that is from the Montana LLC (which legally is the owner of the bus) that states that I have the right to drive the bus. That document can be presented to the highway patrol if you're pulled over to give them an explanation as to why my toad has different plates than the bus (since I own the toad and the LLC owns the bus)."
Who produced this document for you. Can you email me a copy?
Mike@mangomikes.com
Thanks
MM
I,m registering mine in Zimbabwae! Who,s gona question that!