What's the best toad?

I am thinking about giving my Honda Hybrid (current tow car) to my son, so I'm looking to pick up a toad for the bus.

I don't necessarily need anything new, and I don't want to spend a ton (I think hummers are definitely out of my price range!), but want to get something at least 2004 or newer.

I had been out at a Carmax lot, and found a nice BMW suv (X-3), which I later found is not towable. This started a bit of a search to find that many cars are not towable. Stopped at a Toyota lot yesterday, and salesman indicated Toyota doesn't recommend towing any of their cars.

In look at car websites, none of them seem to make it easy to find out what is and what is not 4-wheel towable.

So, I' thought I'd ask here. What is the best toad? What do you tow, and why do you like it?

I did find that Saturn indicates all of their cars (except the little sports car) is 4-wheel towable. The Vue kinda looks like an options. (By the way, there was a used H2 on the lot. 2005 with 10,000 miles for $45k. Now why would they get rid of a Hummer with only 10,000 miles?)


Ray

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ray Davis

(By the way, there was a used H2 on the lot. 2005 with 10,000 miles for $45k. Now why would they get rid of a Hummer with only 10,000 miles?) Ray

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The color of the Hummer didn't match their new Liberty Elegant Lady??: :eek: :confused:

Ray if you are an FMCA Member, go to their website, they have the last 6 years of Towables... http://www.fmca.com/fmcmag/towing/index.asp

Very Good Place to start. [COLOR="Red"]

I think I will start there for a Toad,.... when ever Peg lets me get a bus to pull it?[/COLOR] :( I know, ... don't even say IT !

Gary S

Ray,

The options available to you are almost endless. As Gary posted the FMCA magazine has all the vehicles that do not require modifications, but with the Remco kits almost any car made can be flat towed.

Since you will not customarily deal with snow I think any 4WD would be a waste of money, so if you want an unmodified towable vehicle you are looking at some manual transmission vehicles, or the rare few like some Hondas, the Saturns, and some Chevy models that can be towed with automatics without restrictions or modifications

Personally, regardless of whether I ever see another snow flake my personal preference would be the Grand Cherokee. Nice size, not too heavy and with the right transfer case you can easily tow it four wheels down forever without having any special limitations or restrictions on distance before starting it up. A smaller version such as the Liberty or the Wrangler would be another choice. They are bulletproof but don't tell Ken a Hummer guy is recommending a Jeep.

Ray,

That is a loaded question. FWIW, I have towed a Jeep Wrangler for many years without any problems. I believe all Jeep products are towable on all fours. As previously suggested, check with FMCA as they publish an annual report on all towable vehicles. In fact, two weeks ago I threw out a stack of FMCA magazines and that issue was one. Perhaps someone else has it and can send it to you.

Denny

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I didn't realize FMCA did publish that, and I'm in the process of printing right now from the web.

I had noticed in the two POG trips that jeeps seemed to be a vehicle of choice. In our group of 7 from CA and CO to POG3, I think 3 out of 6 towables were jeeps. I had really bad luck with a Jeep Cherokee in the 80's and had never purchased one like that since. A liberty is a nice size, and I know several of the group tow them.

Ray

1. We had good luck with a Saturn VUE, which we towed for five years, if you are looking for the budget end of things (more room on the inside than it appears.

2. Whatever towable you choose, make sure that when you tow it the wheels are actually turning. Can you imagine this: Some guy yanked a Hummer down the road without first checking the details to insure that the wheels were turning...and wound up with four tires with flat spots on them.

Imagine that.

I heard it was only two tires that were not turning. Rumor has it that with a Prevost it really doesn't matter if the wheels are turning or not. When you want to go, you just go and the toad tends to follow you.

There is less noise if the wheels turn however, a lot less smoke, and you don't get those pesky black rubber marks on the road.

Prior to POG2 I purchased an EvenBrake system from Roadmaster. This is one of those system which go in the toad, and push on the brake pedal. I got this because I wasn't sure I'd keep this toad, or want a more internal supplemental braking system.

With POG2 trip, I had no problem. But, going to POG3 it had been 6 months since using it, and I didn't quite read the directions. When stopping for fuel at a Flying J I took the opportunity to disengage the brake thingy, and run the Honda through it's gear pattern to be set for another 300 miles.

I was idling for the last couple of minutes, and put the brake system back, and ran the test which it pumped the brakes three times. All is good, right? Not!

I got out towards the freeway, had to hit my brakes a bit, and next thing I here is tires screeching, smoke coming from the toad, and the brakes didn't release for probably 10-15 feet.

Ultimately I had two flat spots on my fronts. Jim and Chris reported on the CB that my Honda had been enveloped in smoke! The bus had zero problem dragging my poor little Honda, who was kicking and screaming behind me!

It's then I remember that the brake test is supposed to be done when the engine is off, to bleed off all extra vacuum. I had tried to save time, and ran the test while idling. So, I had a fully charged vacuum when the brakes engaged.

That's one I'll remember to do in the right order!!!

Ray

Ray, I hear ya.

The devil is in the details. Not being, well a very detailed oriented kinda guy, we always ran illegal; that is, without a brake dealie on the toad. I figured that if there were problems with the toad stopping, I had bigger problems to handle.

That may not make a lot of sense, but usually the little bugger followed along behind the bus.

Ol' Bob, whom some of you met at POG II, lost a Grand Waggoneer in TX when his hitch failed. It was his claim that the guy who put the hitch on forgot to put in The Pin. The guy said it was Ol' Bob's fault.

Anyway, his comment was memorable: "I was a lookin' and a Jeep just like ours passed us on the freeway."

And then it crossed the median, across a field and negotiated a hard stop against a cement wall.

Details, details.

Ray,

I tow a Honda Pilot; it has automatic 4WD. It would be the same set up as your previous Honda, put in neutral and go (be sure to make Drive the last gear selection before putting it in neutral).

I like it because it is small and can seat 7 with the fold down seats up, or seat 5 people with enough room for 4 golf bags in the back. I like the SUV fold down seats; it lends itself to all kinds of carrying cargo ability, and it gets 21 mpg.

Hint: after connecting the toad for the first time, put the bus in D and pull forward without giving it any gas pedal, after rolling a few feet, put it in neutral and see if you can still roll forward. If you can, the toad is free wheeling and the brakes aren't on. It's a good little test.:D

Good luck

Ray,

When I started to find something to tow last year, I went to the Honda dealer to look for an SUV. I was surprised to learn that all Hondas made before 2006 are towable. As it ended up, I just bought a tow bar for my 2002 Accord, and it works great. If I had to purvchase another tow vehicle, it would probably be an SUV just because of their flexibility.

Ray, I thought your Toad was the hot set-up. Why not keep it ( being all set -up and ready to go), and get something else to give to your son?

If your a truck kinda guy. I like the Chevy Avalanche. Ready to tow, rugged, converts to haul like a truck and drives like a car.

Jim,

The current toad works great, but my son's car is a 90 Accord. Although it runs fine, it has no air bags, AND he drives 50 miles each way to college, and also works late shifts (until midnight) at a coffee store. I work out of my home, and put on less than 5k per year on my personal vehicle.

In CA, those of us with hybrids, AND who got the early stickers, we can drive in the carpool lane, with only a single person.

So, I'm tranferring the Hybrid over to my son's use, so he can use the carpool lane, AND get airbags (front and side) in the Hybrid.

My wife's car is a 2003 Pilot, and I've considered making that our toad, although it is quite a bit heavier than some small SUV's. I'm leaning toward a small SUV, as it is very flexible in it's use, and it's nice to be able to seat at least 5 when you get to a remote park (especially during a POG rally!)

Thanks for the comments everyone, I appreciate them!

Ray

Tuge,

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give that a try next time. I usually try to check when making the corner out of a gas station etc, that the wheels are turning. I have to make enough of a turn to see the toad with the mirrors.

In the case I mentioned, previously, everything was rolling fine. The issue was that when the brake system put on the brakes the first time, there was still vacuum in the system. The EvenBrake system is designed to work on a dead pedal, and being there was still vacuum it stepped on the brake WAY TOO hard, locking up the wheels.

The manual says to kill the engine, and depress the brake several times to clear the vacuum. Also the test procedue that the unit runs through does the same thing. I just ran it with the engine running, and that was the wrong thing to do. Luckily Honda Civic tires are MUCH cheaper than Prevost tires. $105 and I had two new tires in Kerrville!


Ray

My coach idling in drive probably has enough torque to drag the HUmmer with the brakes on. I am not positive, but when the brake incident occurred I was pulling out of my driveway, and because of how it lays with relation to the road I tend to not use the accelerator pedal until I am completely out of the driveway and straightened out on the road.

I now check in my mirrors and make a turn as soon as possible so I can get a visual on the wheels of the Hummer to make sure the wheels are turning.

Ray....I like the suggestion to use the Pilot. Your coach will not be able to tell the difference between the Civic and the Pilot.

Ray,

Dale is right both the Element and the CRV, which were ok to tow in 2006 and previous but since 2007 now on the no-tow list, which is too bad as the Toaster is a great toad. Good mileage, doubles as a trailer and will haul five (although in full disclosure there are only 4 seatbelts).

Attachment 1375
plus it's a real chick magnet.

mm

We tow an H-3 Hummer, kind of goes with my 40' coach. It scales at 5000 lb and is very easy to disengage the drive line, just hold two buttons for 10 seconds.

I installed Blue Ox tow plates, took about 3 hours and fit the Hummer perfect. The cost of the Hummer was $30,000.00 with 2,000 miles. (repo). We have drove it 30,000 miles and pulled it 25,000 more.

Ray,

We have a Jeep Wrangler and a 4WD Chevy Tahoe. For the last two years, we have towed the Tahoe exclusively. The Jeep is now a trailer queen. The Tahoe is a great tow vehilce. You simply put the transfer case in neutral by pushing two buttons for 10 seconds, take the key out and go (there is no steering wheel lock to remember about). For braking, we put an M&G brake system on which is activated by air from the bus and is permanently attached to the master cylinder of the Tahoe. That hookup is a simple air line from the bus to the front of the Tahoe that takes less than 20 seconds. When you unhook, you put the transfer case back in gear and go. The Tahoe has seating for six, seven if you get the middle bench seat instead of buckets. The rear seat folds down in a minute to make room to haul junk. The Tahoe actually tows much better than the Wrangler did even though it is heavier. I think it is the wheel base that provides more stability. The only issue with a Tahoe is that if you have a 45 foot bus you will be approximately 68 feet long when towing and that may be an issue in California. If we ever get a 45 foot bus, I will think about the Honda Element, Saturn Vue, or Chevy HHR.

Loc

Apart from the fact that Di wanted a big vehicle to protect her when driving on the highways, we settled on the H2 Hummer because it puts us at 65 feet. We were also OK with the Grand Cherokee, but my Dodge Ram 1500 puts me at 68 feet.

good point about the size constraints. I hadn't really thought about that much. currently I drive a 40ft, so it's not an issue, but someday I may upgrdade! :)

We are going to tow our 2006 3/4 ton Suburban. I bought this jeep new in November, it's a 2006, 6 cyl, 6 speed, w/ AC. It has 4,000 + miles. I'd like to get close to $18,000. for it.

I have a wish for and have hot pants for a new Buick Enclave which I understand is towable.

I presently have a 2006 Saturn Vue with about 7800 driven miles. I love it but the Enclave has got me breathing hard. Not one thing wrong with the Vue and if my wife see this post she will castrate me. I would like $21,000. I paid about $26,000. Front wheel drive and a V6. Lots of pep and a dream to drive and hook up.

Lew

That Saturn Vue is all wired to tow with the tow plate and all ready to go.

The wiring and tow plate alone is over a1000 bucks.

Lew

Mango,

It's too bad. I did go to a Honda dealer yesterday, and indeed the Element is no longer on the tow list. In fact the salesman indicated ONLY the CR-V qualifies for 4-wheel towing. That's really a shame. I have 3 Honda's and wouldn't have minded purchasing another.

The new Element really looks nice. But, ....


Ray

Ray,


I am going to go out on a limb here, but here goes. I think that the transmissions in the 2006 and 2007 are the same ones that are in previous models (2005 and earlier). I have heard that Honda had some "issues" regarding towing BECAUSE the people using them didn't follow the directions carefully. Lew pointed this out to me on this forum a few months back. The last gear that is selected should be D before the car is put in neutral. If you select R and then neutral you can damage the transmission by towing it. IMO Honda is just doing this to cover their butts.

Maybe some Honda techs could tell you "off the record" if the transmissions are the same on the 2006 & 2007 units as the prior ones. If the transmissions are the same, I'll bet you can tow them with no damage.

I realize that it is a big chance to take, but I'll bet there is no difference in the transmissions!:D

Ray,

What Tuga tells you is correct. The transmissions are the same. This is also true of the Acura line. America Honda got hit by a number of owner fault warranty claims with regard to towing and decided to end support. I know several people that tow new MDX's and various new Honda models with no problems. They also realize that they do so at risk should there be an actual problem there will be no factory support during warranty.

Realize once you are outside the warranty is all falls on you anyway.

Michael

Quote:

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Originally Posted by merle&louise

Ray,


I am going to go out on a limb here, but here goes. I think that the transmissions in the 2006 and 2007 are the same ones that are in previous models (2005 and earlier). I have heard that Honda had some "issues" regarding towing BECAUSE the people using them didn't follow the directions carefully. Lew pointed this out to me on this forum a few months back. The last gear that is selected should be D before the car is put in neutral. If you select R and then neutral you can damage the transmission by towing it. IMO Honda is just doing this to cover their butts.

Maybe some Honda techs could tell you "off the record" if the transmissions are the same on the 2006 & 2007 units as the prior ones. If the transmissions are the same, I'll bet you can tow them with no damage.

I realize that it is a big chance to take, but I'll bet there is no difference in the transmissions!:D

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To back up what I reported prior to this, I now have the Saturn Vue which has a Honda engine and transmission. Now what do you think?

Lew

I guess in all fairness, it appears my Hybrid was never on "the list", as reported from FMCA. But, I tow it, and it indicated in the owners manually, that they *thought* it would be OK, but no significant testing had been done.

I would understand if they cancelled all cars, but the CR-V remains on the list.

Ray

Good point Ray.

Ray,
You could duplicate the Hybrid you now have in a used model. You already have all the tow equipment that fits the new acquisition. You wouldn't need the fast lane sticker and you would have the set-up you like and are used to!;)

Lew - When did you grow another pair for her to cut off? Anyway, I like your toad. Plenty of stickers so we know it is you from a distance.

jim

Hybrids are commanding a serious premium these days. I don't really need to spend the extra bucks for another one

Ray

Here is another NEW Entry to consider for towing. I called them and they are towable all 4 down, with apparently no problems, except the mileage keeps ticking on the car. But this is sure a neat contender for just two people. Hence the name 2008 smartfortwo

http://www.smartusa.com/index.aspx The only forseeable problem with this vehicle, is no towbars available yet? They are coming to the US the first of next year, and owned by Daimler/Chrysler.

1 Liter Engine 3cyl 71hp

I am considering a mini-cooper. I know that there's a couple of people towing them in the group. I assume I need to purchase a stick shift tranny for that. Is that correct (Mini-owners??)

Ray

Ray: As with all BMW vehicles, Mini does not recommend towing. However I have towed an "S" six speed for over 10K miles with no problem. I consulted with an expert before towing it - Steve with California Coach towed his 20 K miles before someone bought it from him in a collision at a red light. The trick is to start it up every 3 or so hours of towing or when you wet your whistle, so you can strectch you legs and allow the oil to lubricate inside the Gertrag Tranny. I am not sure that the tailshaft is lubricating the tranny adequately or not, so let it idle for 3 or 4 minutes at each stop. I have left it running by accident, but fortunately they are very fuel efficient - especially when towing.:cool:

Roger... You have all the time in the world when traveling with Jon. As most everyone knows, he stops every hour to check the air in the tires. Good time to start the baby pooper, I mean Cooper.

Personaly I like the Mercedes Convertible:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3...stol/toad3.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3...stol/toad1.jpg

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g3...istol/toad.jpg

Roger,

Thanks for the info. It sounds very similar to the Honda routine. Do you run it through the gears while it's running at the stops?

ray

As a manual you only idle it in neutral. If you run it through the gears nothing is turning until you let out the clutch and I'll bet Roger's mini will stall as long as it is hooked to the bus.

Ouch! That's a real "DUH" moment on my part! :eek:

Been awhile since I've owned a manual transmission. The Honda automatic has a very specific pattern for shifting before towing. Don't quite make sense with the manual tranny!