Cruisair Question

Printable View

09-06-2011, 09:31 AM
michaeldterry

Cruisair Question

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Wehrenberg

Jim,

The front Cruise Airs have intake air from behind the bumper and it is exhausted out the bottom.

Jon - this past weekend, we noticed that the Cruisairs in Evangeline were not cooling the bus sufficiently (for reasons beyond our understanding/knowledge - only two Cruisairs at a time will run - whether on generator of shore power). Anyway, we embarked on a mission to locate the filters and clean them to see if it would help. We found a filter in the third bay and cleaned that one. It was the only one we could locate/access. Is the large filter in the bay for both the mid and aft units? Also, how do we gain access to the filter for the front unit mounted behind the bumper?

Finally - does anyone know of and can recommend a qualified Cruisair specialist in the greater Atlanta/north Georgia area? I think we need our freon checked/tweaked.

The more I learn - the more I realize how little I know! :o
09-06-2011, 01:24 PM
Jon Wehrenberg

If only two will run at a time I suspect the issue is not with the Cruise Airs but with how Vantare is running their electrical system. Just a guess.

For the short term get two running and take the temps at the air return and at the air supply as close to the evaporator as you can get. I stick the IR thermometer in the duct where it blows into the coach.

My temps spread between return air and supply air is 18 degrees on the worst and 24 degrees on the best.
09-06-2011, 04:41 PM
BenC

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaeldterry

Jon - this past weekend, we noticed that the Cruisairs in Evangeline were not cooling the bus sufficiently (for reasons beyond our understanding/knowledge - only two Cruisairs at a time will run - whether on generator of shore power). Anyway, we embarked on a mission to locate the filters and clean them to see if it would help. We found a filter in the third bay and cleaned that one. It was the only one we could locate/access. Is the large filter in the bay for both the mid and aft units? Also, how do we gain access to the filter for the front unit mounted behind the bumper?

The more I learn - the more I realize how little I know! :o

I am intrigued as to what is going on that only 2 Cruisair units will operate. This is NOT an electrical system interlock in any way, at least by the original design per Vantare. You do have the SW4024 inverters (qty of 2) in your coach, correct? If this is the case, all the power for each leg runs through the inverters and there is no unloading to prevent ALL the loads on each leg from operating...UNLESS someone has added some interlock to prevent from overloading the inverters when shore or gen are not present ac sources.
When you say not more than 2 will operate, what is the remaining unit's status? Does the SMX control panel light up at all? How do you get the one that doesn't work to work? Do you have to turn off the breaker for the other unit on the same ac leg, or do you just turn it off on the control panel?
Thanks for the feedback.

Sincerely,
Ben Cummings
09-06-2011, 05:32 PM
Seabyrd

We have 2 Cruisairs (condensers) behind the front bumper and 4 units (evaporators) inside the coach... until we we replaced the refrigerator we didn't know one of the four was back there...we thought there was only three , we have a grill above the bar that never had air coming out of it but thought it was part of the OTR... when we changed that filter which was totally clogged the bus has been 10-15 degrees cooler.. and the air coming from that grill is wonderful. I am surprised that the others worked as well as they did with that one being totally clogged up.When we removed the clogged filter dirt and junk blew out everywhere !! Also there is a return air at the bottom of the bar where we can (with some difficulty) change the filter now that we know its there.
Your situation may be something like that Michael !
09-06-2011, 06:54 PM
michaeldterry

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenC

I am intrigued as to what is going on that only 2 Cruisair units will operate. This is NOT an electrical system interlock in any way, at least by the original design per Vantare. You do have the SW4024 inverters (qty of 2) in your coach, correct? If this is the case, all the power for each leg runs through the inverters and there is no unloading to prevent ALL the loads on each leg from operating...UNLESS someone has added some interlock to prevent from overloading the inverters when shore or gen are not present ac sources.
When you say not more than 2 will operate, what is the remaining unit's status? Does the SMX control panel light up at all? How do you get the one that doesn't work to work? Do you have to turn off the breaker for the other unit on the same ac leg, or do you just turn it off on the control panel?
Thanks for the feedback.

Sincerely,
Ben Cummings

Ben - I'll get out to the bus in the next couple of evenings and check the status of the SMX panels and mid unit thermostat when I try to run all three units. I'll also heed Jon's suggestion to shoot the temps at the air supplies and the air returns with an IR thermometer to measure the temp delta between the two. I'll try to remember to take a few pictures of my set up to post here for more information, too. That brings up another idiosyncracy of my bus though - I have an SMX panel inconveniently mounted directly behind the driver's seat that controls the FWD CruisAir, an SMX panel mounted on the outside wall of the A/V cabinet in the rear salon (next to the curside window) that controls the AFT CruisAir unit, but there is no SMX panel for the MID unit - it is controlled by a more traditional lokking thermostat panel mounted on the wall behind the dinette table (just forward of the refrigerator). Normally, I turn on all the A/C breakers at the MDP and control the individual CruisAir units with the FWD, MID, & AFT A/C switches on the front dash panel. To get the one that is not working to work, I have to switch off one of the running units and then switch on the previously not working one, as only two at a time will run.

Referring back to my original posting - can you tell me 1) are the filters one the one accessible unit in the third bay for both the mid and aft units?, and 2) how do I access the filter for the forward unit that apparently mounted behind the front bumper?

Thanks for your help and guidance!
09-06-2011, 06:58 PM
michaeldterry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seabyrd

We have 2 Cruisairs (condensers) behind the front bumper and 4 units (evaporators) inside the coach... until we we replaced the refrigerator we didn't know one of the four was back there...we thought there was only three , we have a grill above the bar that never had air coming out of it but thought it was part of the OTR... when we changed that filter which was totally clogged the bus has been 10-15 degrees cooler.. and the air coming from that grill is wonderful. I am surprised that the others worked as well as they did with that one being totally clogged up.When we removed the clogged filter dirt and junk blew out everywhere !! Also there is a return air at the bottom of the bar where we can (with some difficulty) change the filter now that we know its there.
Your situation may be something like that Michael !

Larry - thanks for sharing your experience! I'll definitely look for a similar situation when I head back out to the bus in the next couple of days!
09-06-2011, 10:02 PM
Seabyrd

Michael & Vita,

I have an SMX behind the driver's seat also and right below that you will have a vent which will be your return air.. take the screws out and your filter should be on the front of your Evaporator... most of them can just be washed and put back in place.. I do ours every 90 days and also vacuum out the cabinet that it's in.. It's very awkward to work on but the results are worth it. I also have another evaporator right behind the passengers seat (without an SMX control).. it also has a return air grill down near the floor that needs to have the filter cleaned or replaced. Then we have a third evaporator behind the refrigerator as I mentioned earlier... with access to filter below at the return air vent. These three evaporators are contolled by that one SMX unit behind the driver's seat!

If you turn your units on one at a time and see where the air is coming into the rooms then wherever the vent is you should have a return air vent nearby (you should feel it sucking air or use a piece of paper) and that's where the filter will be. It's so important that they be kept clean.... like I said I do mine every 90 days.
Our bedroom is where my other SMX is located and this Cruisair only has one huge duct and one return air vent and again the filter is right inside that return. ( I have to take my shelves out of my cabinet and the wall panel out to get to this filter but again it's worth the effort).
Then I have a huge house air (as they call it) that has 2 breakers one for Primary AC and the other is called Secondary AC one on each power leg (Inverter) The Primary must be running in order for the Secondary unit to come on. These are controlled in my galley by a wall switch like you described. These are vented throughout the entire bus and there is one 12"X12" square filter in my third bay on the passengers side.
Try turning your units on one at a time to see if you can identify where your vents are and your return air vents.. your filters will be easy to find then.
Our temps here have been in excess of 100 everyday for weeks and not dropping much below mid 90s at night and our bus has been staying cold with 2 slides out and lots of air space being an H3-45... we have managed to have the units tweaked to perfection and of course we run the OTR underway as well.. I have to have a blanket when we're under way but it pays off when we get where we're going. Can't wait for some cooler days!!
The OTR brings the coach down to 60 degrees fast !!

I hope this helps.. your system sounds very similar to ours.
You can call us anytime while you're scouting it out if you need to. (936) 404-6565
Good luck.
Diane
09-07-2011, 08:03 AM
michaeldterry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seabyrd

Michael & Vita,

I hope this helps.. your system sounds very similar to ours.
You can call us anytime while you're scouting it out if you need to. (936) 404-6565
Good luck.
Diane

Diane - you can bet that I'll have copies of your informative replies with me at the bus when I head back to further investigate my CruisAir issues! Thank you!
09-12-2011, 04:34 PM
BenC

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaeldterry

Ben - I'll get out to the bus in the next couple of evenings and check the status of the SMX panels and mid unit thermostat when I try to run all three units. I'll also heed Jon's suggestion to shoot the temps at the air supplies and the air returns with an IR thermometer to measure the temp delta between the two. I'll try to remember to take a few pictures of my set up to post here for more information, too. That brings up another idiosyncracy of my bus though - I have an SMX panel inconveniently mounted directly behind the driver's seat that controls the FWD CruisAir, an SMX panel mounted on the outside wall of the A/V cabinet in the rear salon (next to the curside window) that controls the AFT CruisAir unit, but there is no SMX panel for the MID unit - it is controlled by a more traditional lokking thermostat panel mounted on the wall behind the dinette table (just forward of the refrigerator). Normally, I turn on all the A/C breakers at the MDP and control the individual CruisAir units with the FWD, MID, & AFT A/C switches on the front dash panel. To get the one that is not working to work, I have to switch off one of the running units and then switch on the previously not working one, as only two at a time will run.

Referring back to my original posting - can you tell me 1) are the filters one the one accessible unit in the third bay for both the mid and aft units?, and 2) how do I access the filter for the forward unit that apparently mounted behind the front bumper?

Thanks for your help and guidance!

You evidently have one of the few Vantare XL's equipped with the 2-Cruisair and 1 2-ton RVAC setup that became infamous on most Vantare H3-45 VIP's of the late 90's to mid 2000's. The Cruisair Units don't have a filter that would be located at the condenser unit, only at the evaporator unit inside the coach as Seabyrd referenced in her post. The RVAC is an all-in-one unit, with an coarse mesh filter (blue material) that Vantare put in front of the condenser fins, but also the cloth filter in the return air ductwork down to the intake on the unit. If you got both on the RVAC, the only other filters to worry about (unless you just want to wash out the condenser coils of the condensors = recommended every year or two, depending on use), the only other filters are the two inside. Hope that helps. If you come to POG10, I'll be happy to take a look at the switch wiring to see about "fixing that" issue of only 2 operating at a time.
09-13-2011, 09:22 AM
michaeldterry

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenC

You evidently have one of the few Vantare XL's equipped with the 2-Cruisair and 1 2-ton RVAC setup that became infamous on most Vantare H3-45 VIP's of the late 90's to mid 2000's. The Cruisair Units don't have a filter that would be located at the condenser unit, only at the evaporator unit inside the coach as Seabyrd referenced in her post. The RVAC is an all-in-one unit, with an coarse mesh filter (blue material) that Vantare put in front of the condenser fins, but also the cloth filter in the return air ductwork down to the intake on the unit. If you got both on the RVAC, the only other filters to worry about (unless you just want to wash out the condenser coils of the condensors = recommended every year or two, depending on use), the only other filters are the two inside. Hope that helps. If you come to POG10, I'll be happy to take a look at the switch wiring to see about "fixing that" issue of only 2 operating at a time.

Ben - this is invaluable information! Thank you so much for making me aware! We went to the bus Sunday armed with Diane's (Seabyrd) suggestions of where to look for the filters. Unfortunately, ours are apparently not located where hers and Larry's are (behind the driver's seat, behind the passenger seat, behind the refrigerator) - UNLESS I am misidentifying (or missing) the return air vents - which could be entirely possible, but there are no openings of any kind on the half wall behind the driver's seat, or behind the passenger seat - so I'm not sure where else to look. The good news is that we noticed a significant improvement in the A/C performance since we washed the large filters on the house unit in the bay and rinsed the condenser coils the previous weekend. Shooting the temps at the air supply vents with my IR thermometer gave readings of between 42 & 48 degrees Farenheit! I'm not sure if I found the right return vents, but the ones I shot gave readings of about 72 degrees (this was after the A/C had been running for about an hour). Outside ambient temps were about 90 degrees that day. Based on what I've read on POG, it sounds like my units are, in fact, operating pretty well now that I cleaned the big filter. I wish I could find the inside filters to clean them, as well.

Oh - and plugged in to 50 amp service at my storage facility, now I can run all three units simultaneously - which makes me think that there was a problem with the campgroud power when I first noticed not being able to run all three units at the same time....