Glass care

[garyde]

I have been working on waxing the Coach. I have gotten around to the windows now. I can not get the water marks off the glass. Is there any way to remove this from the glass? I have used several window and glass cleaners and no luck. Gary

[Just Plain Jeff]

What the heck do you have on your windows?

Anyway, The Boss has determined that a mild solution of warm water and vinegar works. Put it in a spray bottle and use the black and white section of the newspaper (no color or roto sections) to apply and wipe clean.

Cleaning glass and mirrors is a hit and miss deal.

Good luck!

[truk4u]

Gary,

Nothing works except some magic stuff sold by our sponsor, Wipe Out Systems. I'll get the name off the bottle and post it for you. I tried a small corner of the window and the spots and acid rain were gone. Nothing else works and I have tried just about everything.;) Now you put the pressure on me, time to do all the windows.:cool:

[win42]

At POG2 Rogers wife indicated she had good results on their many interior mirrored surfaces using " Clear Windex " We have tried it with good results. Our sponsors product should also be tried when Truk comes up with the name. They take the time for us, we should try and support them.

[lewpopp]

I njust happen to be in the middle of the same job of waxing the coach.

Last year my windows looked almost like the water spots were etched into the glass. I tried putting the wax on the windows and cleaned it off the same way I did with the painted surfaces. Wipe it off with two rags. The windows come out perfect.

Wipe-Out is here in our resort. He arrived today and it will be interesting to see him try to sell his wears. We really don't allow any signs or sales items in the park and in addition to that, NO ATV'S. I think he'll have a problem. I already have all of his products and the wax on the windows worked the best.

Lew

[garyde]

Yes , its mineral deposits etched in the glass. I used Vinegar to no avail. I tried wax, and no help. Three different window cleaning products, no luck. I waxed half of all the windows anyway and its more pronounced. It looks like its in the glass itself. I would be interested in knowing that product. I will contact them. Thank you . Gary

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Sounds like your dealing with some real hard water Gary.

Used to run a mobil power wash and had a couple of costomers with real bad nasty hard water and your post reminds me of them:(

Try a pad of OOOO steel wool. We use it to get lime dust off the windows on the tractor, when we work in the steel mill. You use this method with completly dry windows, mirrors too. Amazingly leaves no sctatches. Experiment, you'll see.

[jack14r]

Gary,I am in the mirror business and i have access to a variety of polishing compounds,last year i tried 3 different cerium compounds on the windows of my xl2,i mixed them with 3m rubbing compound and they worked fair.i was never satisfied with the amount of time it was taking to remove the water spots and i kept trying other products,i purchased 2 other products at the glass machinery show in las vegas,they were ok but not great.i then discovered a product called nu glass manufactured by duragloss,i mixed the highest grade of cerium with it and used a buffer with a wool pad and the water spots could be removed,i think the spots on my coach were etched into the glass,and i do not think a glass cleaner will have any results.duragloss alone worked fairly well,napa has it in stock.jack

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Gary,I am in the mirror business and i have access to a variety of polishing compounds,last year i tried 3 different cerium compounds on the windows of my xl2,i mixed them with 3m rubbing compound and they worked fair.i was never satisfied with the amount of time it was taking to remove the water spots and i kept trying other products,i purchased 2 other products at the glass machinery show in las vegas,they were ok but not great.i then discovered a product called nu glass manufactured by duragloss,i mixed the highest grade of cerium with it and used a buffer with a wool pad and the water spots could be removed,i think the spots on my coach were etched into the glass,and i do not think a glass cleaner will have any results.duragloss alone worked fairly well,napa has it in stock.jack

Jack, Do you ever see a reflection of yourself in your work? :D :D JIM

Please be more specific about the Cerium oxide : best grade?, where to buy?, how to use without ruining something!
In your opinion is your method doable by a non expert? Thanks JIM

[JIM KELLER]

I am really interested in this Thread. My windows have the same problem and I am battling it now. So far I have tried everything from rubbing compound to acid. Getting close to sandpaper !

99 Country Coach 45XL

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Try the 0000steel wool on a dry window, it's the easiest way.

[truk4u]

The Wipe Out product is called "Oxidation Remover and Polish" and comes in a 12 oz bottle. The stuff works...

Lew - Since the Wipe Out guy is at your park, have him show you how this stuff works. His products are good, just ask Mango, AP and JDUB. They bought everything in Alb except his four wheeler!:D

[MangoMike]

Lew,

Be careful as it's easy to get carried away.

mm

[JIM KELLER]

Lew,

Be careful as it's easy to get carried away.

mm

Reference : steel wool or oxidation remover ?

[MangoMike]

Sorry Jim, I should have been more detailed.

I was referring to buying products from the Wipe Out guy. It's easy to get carried away with his products and offerings.

Mike

[jack14r]

jim,i buy 2 different grades of cerium for different processes in my plant,i have a vendor who has optical grade cerium,which is a very high quality product and might sell for $25 per pound.the products i use cost less than $3 per pound,but they are a much lower grade of cerium.i think anyone with a buffer or lots of elbow grease can get rid of the spots,i am sure that other products will work fine,but since i am in the mirror manufacturing business i wanted to use something that i had confidence in,that is why i chose the cerium oxide product.if you want to try some cerium i will be glad to send it to you.jack

[Ray Davis]

I'm sure a number of us have exactly the same issue (I do as well). Anyone willing to talk/show/demonstrate at POG3?

[JIM KELLER]

jim,i buy 2 different grades of cerium for different processes in my plant,i have a vendor who has optical grade cerium,which is a very high quality product and might sell for $25 per pound.the products i use cost less than $3 per pound,but they are a much lower grade of cerium.i think anyone with a buffer or lots of elbow grease can get rid of the spots,i am sure that other products will work fine,but since i am in the mirror manufacturing business i wanted to use something that i had confidence in,that is why i chose the cerium oxide product.if you want to try some cerium i will be glad to send it to you.jack

Jack , I would like to try what you are recommending. This glass problem has used up way to much of my time. Like I said I earlier, I have tried so many compounds and chemicals without success. Please send me some with any directions I need and a bill. Thanks so much !

Jim Keller
10716 64th Ave. N.
Seminole, Florida 33772

[jack14r]

jim,i will send 2 different grades of cerium tomorrow,check and see if you can find the duragloss nu glass product in florida,try napa.jack

[lewpopp]

I have gotten sucked into buying his stuff twice only because I didn't locate what I already had on hand. I really don't recall anything that is actually called with the name "oxidation" in it. I'll look over the stuff I have and then I'll ask him if he's still here.

His stuff isn't cheap as I recall. He came in here with his Safari coach and a trailor twice as tall behind it.

Lew

[Jerry Winchester]

Ray,

I have one of about everything the Wipe Out guy sold as opposed to a trailer load like AP. I will donate the material if you can talk Mike into wearing his fancy red coveralls while he puts on.

JDUB

[JIM KELLER]

jim,i will send 2 different grades of cerium tomorrow,check and see if you can find the duragloss nu glass product in florida,try napa.jack

Jack, Thanks, I am in the Automotive business and talked to my local Napa store yesterday. They didnt have any on the shelf and didnt list it in their catalog. They are trying to find it for me.

[jack14r]

jim,the duragloss part # is 755,i have also used 3m rubbing compound.i have your package ready to ship,it will go ups today,i am real interested in your results,i have an extra bottle of nu-glass if napa can not help.let me know by 2pm and i will include it.jack

[JIM KELLER]

jim,the duragloss part # is 755,i have also used 3m rubbing compound.i have your package ready to ship,it will go ups today,i am real interested in your results,i have an extra bottle of nu-glass if napa can not help.let me know by 2pm and i will include it.jack

JACK , Napa just contacted me and said they found a product called Duragloss glass spot remover. I wont see it untill late this afternoon but I am thinking this is the right product. I gave them the part # so I hope they have found the right produst. Also, I have tried a 3m rubbing compound called final finishing compound with a buffer without success. Spots would not come off. Thanks for all your help !

[JIM KELLER]

Jack , Got it ! Napa just delivered a 8 oz bottle of Duraglass Nu-Glass # 755.

[jack14r]

jim,the goody box and instructions are on the way,ups tracking #1z2299390310057922,try the nu-glass,it might work without the cerium. jack

[Ray Davis]

Keep us posted. Several of us are interested in your results!

[JIM KELLER]

Keep us posted. Several of us are interested in your results!

Ray , Will do ! It is a problem that has bothered me for some time. You cant see the spots from the inside but when you are standing back admiring your bus from the outside the windshield spots really stand out.

[Ben]

Ted from Wipeout just left... he stopped by and showed me all his products.

He was able to take what I thought was a deep bad scratch in my paint and get it out in about 10 minutes.

He also used his polishing ball and the same liquid to remove some of the hard water marks from one of my windows. It looks like it will take some time of you have a lot of watermarks since you have to buff them, but the results look great.

We used the same combo to polish my marker lights (which were creamy instead of clear) and to polish the chrome on my mirrors (which was looking terrible). Everything looked like new afterwards.

I took some before/after photos of everything, which I'll post at a later date... I have to get some work done today.

[Jim Skiff]

Ben,

That's great Ted was able to help you out. He will be at POG III and do a demonstration for interested parties.

Gary, he told me it was his Paint Restorer product that removes oxidation spots on glass. I'm not sure how he applies it so you may want to wait for Kerrville to see how it's done.

Jim

[Orren Zook]

Ted from Wipeout just left... he stopped by and showed me all his products.

He was able to take what I thought was a deep bad scratch in my paint and get it out in about 10 minutes.

He also used his polishing ball and the same liquid to remove some of the hard water marks from one of my windows. It looks like it will take some time of you have a lot of watermarks since you have to buff them, but the results look great.

We used the same combo to polish my marker lights (which were creamy instead of clear) and to polish the chrome on my mirrors (which was looking terrible). Everything looked like new afterwards.

I took some before/after photos of everything, which I'll post at a later date... I have to get some work done today.

Ben,

Was this a Huck Finn / Tom Sawyer experience or did you have to lend a hand too? Work?!?! That takes a lot of fun out of life!

[Ben]

I sat back and watched as Ted worked his magic. The only problem is that now I have a spotted bus... clean shiny spots on an otherwise dirty bus. He showed me how to use everything and completely got rid of a scratch, but I still have to clean the rest of the bus to make it match all those clean shiny spots.

I'll show you how to use everything if you do all the work :D

[BrianE]

Just tried Nu-glass 755. Found it at a CarQuest Autoparts Store. A call to Duragloss confirmed CarQuest is a distributor for all of the Duragloss auto products. It works well as a cleaner and the instructions say it may be applied by hand or by buffer. By hand it didn't remove the water spots on our rig. :( It has the creamy consistency of 3M Finesse polishing compound and will remind you (if you're old enough to remember) of old fashoned Glass Wax. Would have to agree with Joe and go for the 4-0 steel wool or buffing compound for serious water spots. Either one would be faster and cheaper than Nu-glass. For what it's worth. (.02)

__________________
94 Liberty XL

[JIM KELLER]

Jack, Got the goody box today. Read your instructions. Cant wait to try it out. Since I will be working on glass in a vertical position, I assume the Duragloss and the Cerium will need to be pre-mixed. Perhaps I can empty half of the Nuglass bottle out and add the Cerium so I can shake to mix. What do you think and what ratio should I use ? Also, is the optical quality Cerium higher grade because it is less abrasive ? Should it be used as a finish coat ? Never heard of the other product you sent. Looks like it could be a stand alone chemical to use by itself ie.shower doors. Thanks for all your help. Jim Keller

P.S. I didnt find an invoice in the box. You could send me a bill for any amount of money and I would pay based on the amount of time I have invested in the fourteen windows on this bus !

[garyde]

:confused: Well ,I guess I,ll try the Steel Wool a little bit. I ordered some cleaner from Wipe-out, but it may not be the right stuff. I can wait until POG. The question is 'where did these water marks come from, and is this going to be a continuing issue. I guess I will have to keep the Windows waxed as well. Gary

[BrianE]

Gary,

You might try Nu-Glass. It leaves a wax finish that covers up water spots. It feels like there is a slight abrasiveness to it also and I plan on using it with a buffer like it says on the bottle. Tried steel wool today, it works and is less messy than rubbing compound/buffer. Show and tell at POG. :D

__________
94 Liberty XL

[JIM KELLER]

BrianE What do you think about using steel wool ? I tried it with Nu Glass at the same time. It took the spots off but I am afraid the bus will be sitting just right in the sun sometime and my windows will look frosted. Do you think it is safe to use ?

I am waiting for Jack the glass man to get back to me on Post # 34. Between the steel wool, Nu Glass, Cerium, and a slew of other chemicals I am now confused.

Brian, you also said Nu Glass is a wax finish that covers up water spots. Do you think that is what is happening and the spots could re-appear ?

[BrianE]

Jim,

Definitely not being an expert (sounds like Jack might be), would think the effectiveness of these remedies would vary greatly with the degree of water spotting each of us has to contend with. My first impression of Nu-Glass is that it's good stuff, but would only remove minor spots unless (?) used with a buffer, it does a good job of hiding them though. I have used automotive rubbing compound with a buffer in the past and it works well, doesn't haze or scratch, but is messy. I used some 4-0 steel wool the other day on a small area and it seemed to work well. It's pretty fine stuff so wouldn't GUESS: :confused: it would scratch or haze. Also, it's cheap and not messy.

As an added thought: Has anyone had experience with a cordless buffer? Along with Nu-Glass +/- Cerium, it might be the answer.

____________
94 Liberty XL

[jack14r]

jim,i mix cerium and the duragloss in a plastic cup with a paint stirrer,the optical grade will remove stock quicker,the optical grade might have as much as 40% pure cerium.the sparkle product really works well on the shower in my coach(2001 marathon).Feel free to call me if i am not at work,leave your phone # and i will call back.i am curious if you will have the same results as i did.don't worry about an invoice,the information gained from this board has already paid for the stuff many times over.jack

[JIM KELLER]

So what about using 4-0 steel wool on the glass. Would anyone else out there use it on there windows ? I think it should be o.k. but I dont want to be the only one at POGIII with FROSTED windows ! Jack, what do you think ?

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I've been using steel wool for years.

It will also prolong the life of an older windshield with no cracks. If you manage to go long enough on one older windshield.they get "sandblasted" by road stuff over time. Regular intervals of Steel wool on the windshield also keeps that slite pitting that occures with regular road wear over time.

If you have BIONIC vision window wax will remove whatever slight scratches that you MIGHT see :eek:

[jack14r]

jim,if it is fine enough it will work fine,i am always on the conservative side with glass,once you have created a problem it is very hard to fix it.jack

[Jon Wehrenberg]

To all who have contributed to this thread:

You have now spent five pages worrying about water spots on a piece of glass that will be dusty 5 minutes after you have resptored its original condition.

Winchester will be soon handing out new anal awards and you guys are in a fierce battle for the top award with Helen Raymond who cleans lint out of her dryer vent.

When the award has been made, let me know. I'll be cleaning the inside of my valve stem caps.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

When the award has been made, let me know. I'll be cleaning the inside of my valve stem caps.

Jon, would those caps be the ones with the Air Pressure Valves built in them, or the ones on the opposite side of the rim, for actually filling the tire with air? :D

Gary S

[jack14r]

jim,have you tried the cerium yet?jack

[garyde]

:( Well, I've tried the Steel wool 0000. That did not solve my problem. It appears what I am seeing has something to do with the Tinting of my Side Windows. It appears it is not a surface issue. I will be speaking with Liberty and Prevost about this issue. I did order some cleaner from Wipe Out. However , he is on the road and I have not been able to connect with him yet. Gary

[JIM KELLER]

Gary, Sorry to hear the 0000 steel wool didnt work.

Jack, The problem seems to still be challenging me also. I think the spots on my windows are perhaps from well water that dried and baked on in the sun. I dont think it is in the tint like Gary suspects. A mixture of NuGlass, Cerium and steel wool seems to remove the spots from the trial corner areas of some of the windows. Very messy. The problem is I have been afraid to do an entire window using steel wool. Jack, what type of cerium mixture do you suggest ? Should it be a paste consistency ? Perhaps 50 % NuGlass and 50 % Cerium. Is Cerium used to cut and clean or is it a polish ?

Also the same spots were on the Stainless but I was able to buff them out with a buffer and Stainless steel compound followed by a polish then Rejex.

[jack14r]

jim,cerium is a polishing compound,as far as mixture goes i would guess no more than 50% cerium in the mix.i had water spots that seemed to be baked on the windows(the dark tinted side ones) it took me about 4 hours per window to eliminate the spots,and i think it was worth it.sorry it took me so long to reply,but i was without the computer for several days.jack

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Jack, since there still seems to be an issue with the spot removal I was wondering about a few things that might shed a little light on the subject.
CO= Cerium Oxide.
When you are using the CO in your work what exactly are you setting out to accomplish? What is the medium/carrier of the CO. By what method is the CO applied to the glass? That is, what kind of wheel is used, it's composition if you will? Is/are the wheel/wheels in a horizontal table setup where the work is flooded in a shielded environment. Are you using a special dedicated machine, or is the work done by a handheld buffer for spot repairs? How much pressure is applied to the buff against the work, if in fact it is a buff? How long does your process take say per square foot? Is your polishing wheel running circular or in an orbital motion?
I hope you can shed some light on what seems to be a common and persistent problem. :confused: Thanks in advance! JIM

[jack14r]

jim,the co is used in polishing and cleaning applications,it is mixed with water into a slury ,it must be mixed continously or it will fall out of suspension.in our beveling operation it is pumped onto a 6 or 7 inch synthetic felt wheel which has about 20 psi of air pressure,the cerium slurry returns to the tank.this operation is the final step in beveling which polishes the bevel.in our mirror manufacturing process we use it in a slurry also as the cleaning agent,we also mix another product with it which is ground quartz crystal(ground like flour) this is applied to the glass then the glass goes under oscilating brushes then rinsed with city water,then under a cylinder brush,then rinser with di water.these steps clean the glass and prepare it to accept the silver.i hope i answered your questions.jack