Hello and Hurrah! We're happy to be here and soon to be Prevost Owners :)

[CLRH2O]

Hello everyone, I'm introducing for the two of us, the DW and I.

My name is Clearwater, her's is Cheney. We are about 2 weeks out from handing over the check for our very first Prevost... and it's an interesting one!

At a hair over 19 months of bus research, hunting and amazing test drives of other coaches, we find found ourselves within striking distance of a very unique Prevost. This particular coach was contract built by Texaco (operated and serviced by private business who is actually the seller now) for use by Wlliams F1 Racing during the 1991 -1992 F1 season, and specifically for driver Nigel Mansell (apparently the coach's unique construction and features were the result of being part of a 'demand' list required for him to return as the Williams F1 Team lead driver... more on this in a little bit).

At least, that's what I've been able to figure out so far lol.

Oh and Nigel won the 1992 F1 World Championship at the time! Not that this/his bus likely had much to do with *that* of course.

And so, the short story of why we're buying this bus is as follows: The owner operator of the bus (and it's sister 1994 Prevost that we very nearly bought 3 weeks ago, but backed out of to look at this 1991) has recently retired, sold his company and lives in Germany most of the year. And after operating the two coaches as the AUDI Racing Team Paddock buses (the buses are vinyl wrapped from roof to ground in the Flat grey and Red Stripe Audi Livery) for the better part of the past 20 years until Seabring 2017 which was their last contract race date... has decided that he's out and moving on with the 'bucket list' :)

This means the coaches are selling for a touch less than half their fair market value! And while that's most certainly a steal for a Prevost XL 40... you guessed it, there's always a gotcha! lol

Although it has a book of service records and receipts about 4" thick, it's pretty obvious these *servicing* visits were done when something broke down and not when the part's schedule would have normally called for it to be serviced. So while the overall mileage is average for the vintage (176k miles) there is evidence to suggest it's been used with abandon. Also, it's a custom coach in every sense of the word. It has, and we do know who did *this* work luckily, a rear side entry door custom engineered and installed by Marathon. This second side door was used to let the team driver (Nigel originally) enter the coach directly into a fully finished yet completely empty rear room. This room had the team doctor and massage therapist / massage tables for use after each race. This of course means no *bedroom* to speak of. But, since I run a stable of record labels and had planned to renovate any rear bedroom *removing the bed* in order to build an audio engineering & post production studio into the space - it's DANG NEAR PERFECT for that plan! But, that side door does mean a huge area of wasted space and less storage overall. Adding to the storage woes; the entire front 3/5's of the coach is a MONSTROUS over-sized salon. The Salon it's self takes up a clean 20' of front to rear space from the back of the drivers seat to the short (entertainer style) galley counter on the driver's side. Other sort of gotcha's are old tires ($8k'ish right off the bat), an 8V92 that will require some careful mechanic sourcing over time no doubt... and what *might* be some front passenger roof to floor leak damage (I have to return to inspect that a little more closely this Friday).

There's no doubt a laundry list of things that we'll have to pay to get replaced, serviced or fixed over the first year or two. How old *are* those air bags going to end up being after we search through the service records? The Batteries? Who knows, it's a guessing game. Overall though, we assume in the end it wont cost us more than $40k or so to get it up to snuff as we're damn handy with a toolbox for anything that can be lifted or jacked up ourselves. As well as me being extremely educated on 12v systems and air pneumatics (long story, but that all involves working for a zoo for years with their haunted houses and Animatronics).


Right about now, many of you are probably asking yourselves: "Why aren't you bringing the bus to a Prevost Service center and getting it PDI'd, or having a mechanic come out to look at it before buying it?" And that answer is: The seller has offers coming at him from all directions to buy the things. As a point of fact, the people who paid for the 1994 he's selling that we *almost* bought a few weeks ago jumped on it the SAME AFTERNOON we told him we were stepping down in order to look at his 1991 instead. And so, sad as it truly is, we either jump on it or the next party waiting for our final decision this weekend does in our place.

Oh yeah - I just realized there's one last very unique thing about the bus. It comes with a custom built, 40' x 18' side wall/roof-line mounted TENT!. The tent it's self can seat about 25 people at tables with chairs and has a full roof, inside lighting, covered (half height) side walls, entry walkways and upper portion screened breezeway cutouts all around :O There's two pics of that in the attachments.

I know I've typed a novel at this point, so I'll that be that for the moment.

So on that note - hello again, nice to meet you all, and we're genuinely looking forward to being a part of the community. Wish us luck :D

[Gil_J]

Congratulations! Theres nothing wrong with following your heart as long as your wallet and patience agree.

You'll have the largest covered outdoor entertainment area in the neighborhood. I wonder how long that takes to assemble.

You'll probably want to talk to "Joe Camper". He knows coaches of that year probably better anyone and he comes to you.

Are going to leave the wrap?

[dale farley]

Welcome Clearwater and Cheney and congrats on getting a Prevost. We all know the excitement you are feeling. I would definitely get someone who knows Prevosts to look at it and do an inspection. The seller should be willing to give you that opportunity, and it will be so valuable to you in the short and long run. As Gil mentioned, nobody knows those vintage buses like Joe.

[CLRH2O]

Thanks for the replies Gil & Dale!

The bus isn't *ours* just yet, but unless some unforeseen disaster in the unit rears it's head that makes it not even worth the pennies we're buying it for - it's only a couple of weeks away now :) We're just waiting on the owner to fly back to the states.

Gil:
---
We're told that the tent takes two people to set up (one if you're big and have done it a bunch of times) and about 3 hours if running the lights and putting up the siding. A quick frame and roof should take 1 hour (with two people). A G2000 / Nova awning it is not. But, neither are they this. Everything's a trade off right?

Thanks for the shout about contacting Joe camper. I sent off a quick "friend" ping here on the forums. But I'll reach out properly over message in the near future.

As for the Stainless, yeah, I'm preeetty sure a razor blade run down the coach just above the top of the 4 row ribs (below the uppermost 3 ribs) is in the near future to reveal all that loveliness :) And, I think I'll leave the red angled striped running top to bottom still though. After that as time marches on, who knows right? Strip it all, do a different stripe color?

Dale:
---
We've spent so much time hunting and learning up until now it's sort of surreal. We're excited to be sure, but also maybe... relieved to have finally found it? lol

As for an inspection, in the process of shopping, we met a local 8V92 mechanic that we've stayed in touch with who is likely stop #1 after driving off with the bus. It's somewhat planned that we'll leave it with him for the Data download and some new tires as well as a cooling system inspection and that sort of "game-plan" list creation of what will need service soon, and what can wait a bit.

And we're looking forward to speaking with Joe for sure!

[CLRH2O]

Hi Dale & Paulette,
Thank you so much for responding. Cheney here...regarding inspections, we just can't figure out how anyone is able to do them with private sellers who aren't really "bus" people. The coach is only 4.5 hours away from us and even then it's been difficult enough trying to coordinate with the owner to come see it again. Our Friday appointment was just canceled as an example. I can't even imagine asking them to let us take it somewhere to get inspected, and where would we even take it? It's in a pretty small town in South Carolina. I went online to an RV inspection site and there weren't any inspectors even close to the area. How is one supposed to convince the owner who has offers standing by to let us come back yet again and take it to someone? We've been very perplexed with this dilemma. I think perhaps since he's selling it "as is" for far below market value it's a take it or leave it situation. He couldn't get over the fact that we had to wait for an appraisal on his other bus (quipping that never in his life had he been required to get an appraisal on something lol) and could tell he was a bit perturbed that we had to wait until we got the appraisal back before funding would be approved. We ended up paying extra on the appraisal for a rush job. So unfortunately it doesn't look like a thorough PDI is possible on this one. If for some reason this all falls apart at the finish line, how does one convince a future seller to let you drive their bus 1040 miles round trip for multiple days when you're not on their insurance as a driver?

[BoaterAl]

I'am not sure any deal on a bus is a good deal without an inspection. Why can't an agreement be made letting Prevost in Nashville do a inspection ?
I have seen and walked on Paul Newmans Prevost...about that vintage and with a side door. Built as a customer lounge I believe. Also, keep in mind mechanics to work on the Detroit 92 series are getting few and hard to find.
AL

[CLRH2O]

Thanks for chiming in Al :)

Clearwater here. You're right about 8V92 mechanics. One of the reasons we're going in on this 1991 is that we met and have a plan to continue working with an 8V mechanic who's local to us an hour and half away from Asheville NC in Greenville SC. He was the person housing and servicing another 1994 Liberty we'd gone to see with the potential for buying. That bus wasn't right for us, but the mechanic was :D

As for why it's unlikely getting a Prevost PDI done? It's really about the circumstances, and the fact that the prices are so low + he just wants them gone so he doesn't have to keep flying back to the US from Germany to care for them. (he has two buses for sale - well, one now since we turned down the 1994 and that got snapped up the SAME DAY we turned it down by another buyer) The individual selling the buses used them for over two decades on contract with racing teams up until the last Seabring 2017 race (mostly with Audi AG for their Leman's race team, as you can see in the photos). Now that he's sold his company, these coaches are effectively boat anchors. To make the process of selling quick, the cost is very very low. Along with low cost comes a cavalcade of buyers. Obviously why go through these troubles with a buyer who wants to do *all the things*, when there is a line of others waiting with cash in hand who don't?

It's not optimal to be sure, but we're pretty well mentally and financially prepared for a laundry list of service - we think lol!

[TheGadgetGuru]

I'm the non-mechanical member of this family and personally, I wouldn't consider purchasing a bus that didn't allow for a full inspection by Prevost as well as an independent who's looking out for your interests. It's one thing to being financially prepared for a laundry list of services, but it's another to know which items may need replacement.

[CLRH2O]

Hi Andy - thanks for chiming in too!

My wife and I were awed at your X3 when you finally decided to pick it up last year (last year right?). It's a gorgeous piece of equipment you've gotten yourself. At the same time you were looking at Newells, we were trading emails with Brian Pitts there about random questions too.

Ultimately it looks we both choose to go the Prevost route - albeit in our case with far lighter pockets than your own. I think the Bus we're looking at costs (literally) less than 1/10th what you paid for yours :O

About professional inspections: From what we can tell, and this distinction seems to be the KEY, in just about every case where *real* money is being discussed a PDI (at the least) seems possible. It's assumed that a private seller or consumer lot like Premium or Olympia will be willing to go through the process and time required to let a prospective buyer do all this because the money being traded hands is significant enough to warrant it.

In our / this case - that factor is simply not there. We're looking at obtaining an old 8V92 bus for less than the cost of a new Nissan Maxima!

As a result we have largely resigned ourselves to working with the Oil Test sample sent to Blackstone Labs, a Coolant Test strip sample to see what the state of the SCA's for the 2-Stroke motor are, a good highway test drive, and a few days of systems testing, brakes checking, leveling system fiddling, plumbing pouring and breaker panel button pushing - along with the deep dive into the service records (a thick binder of receipts and service notes stretching back years and years) to guide our way down the road from the point of purchase to our mechanic's parking lot.

That first stop *is* planned to be at the mechanic's warehouse about 3 hours from where we'd pick it up. And this will be where the first deep overall inspection will likely take place for things we're not educated enough to find on site ourselves: stuff like the condition of the control arm bushings, the engine's valve clearances, the DDECII Data dump and more.

As it happens we hadn't planned on buying our first bus until late 2020 at the earliest, but this was just too unique a possibility to ignore (for us). I think something that we've have had to take into consideration that many other Prevost buyers do not, is the fact that really no Motorhome as it was originally built on the inside will suit our needs since we're building a Post Production and Audio Engineering studio into the space where most all coaches have a rear bedroom. As a result, some significant amount of interior renovation is going to take place. In the case of this particular bus, where the rear room is (as you can see in the photos) already empty AND there is a rear entry door to let people into the studio area without the need for passing through the living space up front. Dealing with the lack of a PDI as a result of the low asking price seems like part of the 'cost of admission' on this particular deal.

Time will quickly tell if we're buying a lemon though wont it ;)

Our hope is that since the bus was used for/by a large corporation and it was REQUIRED to always be on site, on time and in working order - that it's overall mechanical condition wont be *too* bad now that's it's been retired.


P.s. were loving the resort videos your producing atm!

[dale farley]

I don't think anyone will let you drive their bus for an inspection and selling "as is" is common practice. That's why a PDI is so important. You will have to take someone with you to inspect the bus. If the seller won't accommodate you for that, I would look elsewhere.

[CLRH2O]

Dale, Clearwater here,

We are being permitted and encouraged to check out and operate everything that can have hands laid upon them while there in person. We're just not being given excessive amounts of time / days to do so (like being offered to sleep in it a few nights in a row as other's have the lucky chance to do while buying from other private sellers we've read about on the forums)

We're also welcomed to brig along whoever we want for visits to the bus. And we had tried to get the mechanic we've met who I mentioned in previous posts, it's just not worked out schedule wise thus far.


Possibly I've confused what the term PDI ('Pre Delivery Inspection' right?) actually is?

I had thought a PDI could only be conducted at a Certified Mechanic's shop / Prevost service center / Bus Seller's maintenance center. And that it included a thorough mechanical inspection doing things like opening up the brake chambers and inspecting, checking drive line linkages torque settings, getting fuel tank tested for contaminants (algae), having the whole frame inspected for weld cracks, and including being hooked up to a DDEC computer and getting a *download* performed which provided engine running hours, historical fault codes etc etc. Stuff that requires many hours of service techs hands on, with many specialized tools and equipment, lifts / pits and more...

And not simply an on site walk-through and explanation of how everything works + a visual inspection of thing like belts, lights and faucets, furnace / ac units etc. Which, in reflection can also be a 'pre delivery inspection' of a type.

Some time ago as we were getting familiar with POG I stumbled across the wealth of PDFs and assorted articles - one of which was the one written by Jon Wehrenberg7/18/2007 titled "Prevost Purchase Inspection". I thought it was quite thorough for all the things you 'flip on and off' and visually inspect, and have been using it as a sort of template of what to look for thus far. But I didn't think it counted as a real 'PDI'.

Seems I was, in a way, wrong. And by using those letters might be causing some confusion.

I know I still have a LOT to learn - such as when and when not to use the letters "PDI" :)

[dale farley]

A PDI can range anywhere from a dealer getting things working before they turn over the keys to a buyer to the compressive inspection you described. The one you described would have to be done at a service shop and would cost many hundreds of dollars. At a minimum, when we say an inspection we are talking about a knowledgeable person checking systems and components as much as possible without tearing into them. Many defects can be spotted by looking and flipping switches.

[CLRH2O]

Agreed.

We test out as much as we can. At a point I start to worry we're being overbearing with all the questions and "can you make this run", but it's just part of it.

[CLRH2O]

I don't think anyone will let you drive their bus for an inspection and selling "as is" is common practice. That's why a PDI is so important. You will have to take someone with you to inspect the bus. If the seller won't accommodate you for that, I would look elsewhere.

Does anyone know of any inspectors willing to come down to SC to coordinate with us when we go see it? We reached out to the mechanic, but he's 3.5 hours away and hadn't ever done something like this before so not sure if he'll be able to make it or not. Plus he's only a specialist on the engine, none of the other bits really.

The Prevost inspection place in Nashville is 8 hours away and like Clearwater has stated, the owner just wants these things gone. the longer they sit as we all know the less he can get for them and they're just too much of a burden with him out of the country now. He's been having us try to coordinate with his previous driver to try to come see it.

We would LOVE to meet an inspector there, just don't know how to find someone.

-cheney

[TheGadgetGuru]

Thanks for the kind words Clearwater!

Having spent my share of time in various studios, I can only imagine the investment you'll be making inside the coach. Because of dedicated mods you'll be doing, it makes it even more important to have some sort of PDI. As Dale pretty much stated, an as/is purchase is...as/is. Surely it may be worth it to get someone of the caliber of Gil or Joe to meet you at the bus to put a trained set of eyes on the various components.

For the resort videos, if all goes as planned I should have a unique one posted next month. While I don't want to give too much away, all I'll say is that Robin Leach would be proud!

[BoaterAl]

I have just read above when this question seemed reasonable. You're naming some electronics that seem to indicate heavy electric usage. So what do you estimate your amp draw will be ? Lets just start out with a test drive on that number. You might be reading into my post and know where I'am headed.
There are some really sharp members on POG with electric use knowledge way beyond my pay grade. I'am suggesting you should consider this topic as we all know how far 50 amps go on each leg.
AL

[CLRH2O]

Al,

Our power needs will be, different to be sure. But not *wholly* out of the bounds of all sanity if we're planning it all out as well as we *think* we are ;)

To start, we'll be replacing the entire battery/inverter-charger setup that's in the bus with a new Victron (likely the Quatro 4000 24v... if not two of them in series) and LifePO4 battery bank set up. Check the photo I'm attaching for vuege idea of that. Thanks go you to 'PrevostChef', the Technomadia couple 'Cherie & Chris', Foliver over @ NewellGurus, 'RV Exodus' and handfull of others who've really paved the way for these high capacity high discharge (when needed) "Hybrid" systems over the past 10 years.

While it's tempting to build out the bank with Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide cells (ala Tesla packs made by panasonic) for the wildly massive high output surges that would be possible... I'm unwilling to risk fire in the case of accident. Although I guess if there was an accident so bad in the bus it was able to puncture Tesla battery packs pulled from Model S and Model 3's such that a fire could start, the batteries would be the LEAST of our troubles overall.. but, I digress. And so, I'm sticking to the generally less energy dense but proven safe Lithium Iron Phosphate chemistry. Now, as to wether we'll stick to Primsmatic cells or go for a full 18650 build remains to be seen.

As far as capacity and draw in various situations: To start with we're shooting for a 1000AH 24V bank (800AH usable) with 1500Watts of Solar on the roof and of course via the Victron(s) full hybrid charging and in output from all three sources (PV/Shore/Generator).

And since the studio can get a little hot after a few hours a Soft-Start for the roof AC in that room will happen early so we don't loose session when the compressor kicks on lol.

Oh yes, as for our peak Amp Draw projection. Unless I'm completely off base on how I've been calculating things this past year the estimates go: Peak spikes of up to 80Amps / 5000Watts (which is where the idea of possibly using the two inline Victrons comes into play and *Hybrid mode* so that the battery bank barfs up that extra over what shore power can offer for the few seconds here or there it might be needed if two high current items spike at the same time.. wow run on sentence award for that one!) and standard baseline draw with the AC running and the studio in full swing on top of the random LED light, water pump ect for the 'house' at an estimated draw of 40amps @ 3500Watts. To attempt to prepare for power scarcity (compared to living in a home with 3-pole 200Amp service) we've been practicing rolling brownouts (you could say) by trying to cook all of our meals for the past 2 years on less than 15 amps and 1500Watts. Learning to live without the 'dead short' that is a hairdryer is on Cheney's to-do list still lol.

This discussion can (and always does) stretch on and on and on. I've barely scratched the surface of things from what's planned for our particular build - but this info should at least point to some of the thought we've put forth in advance to try to get ahead of the obvious and somewhat unique power requirements we'll have :)

[Gil_J]

Wow! You have a huge undertaking in upgrading the DC plant and wiring which will likely also require upgrading your main AC distribution. Both of which I just did on my coach, but not to the extend of adding solar and lithium batteries.

I have followed the Technomadia posts in the past and they are pretty good. I personally like Victron products, but they are certainly not wide spread except in much larger yachts. No surprise there given many larger yachts come out of Europe and specifically the Netherlands. I would have went with the Multi 5000 but it was just too expensive to justify the added cost without added value in my installation. I went with the newer Magnum 4K Hybrid inverter/chargers. Like the Victron and the Trace 4K units I had before, it will plus up the incoming voltage for temporary sags in the incoming voltage. You could achieve the same voltage plus up results with a Hughes auto transformer in front of more available inverters. The menu options for the Victron units can be overwhelming for some.

When you go down the path of upgrading your power system make sure that who ever is doing it understands what they are doing. It's not always about a large number of loyal followers. I followed a solar boondocking group for awhile where there was so much misinformation it wasn't worth following. You may want to consider Volta Systems if you are going to do a full electrical system replacement. Shy of a full system upgrade, Volta Systems will likely be cost prohibitive.

[CLRH2O]

You are absolutely right about the scope of the undertaking. And that's part of why we have been looking for a bus that was *more suited* for some Re-Do, and made the coming costs more palatable. Now, we definitely weren't shooting for something ruined and just a hunk of problems, but also not a gorgeous 2008 XLII with Marble floors and that Faucet you posted that looks like a fish ;D Our needs for the coach seem to be somewhat uncommon right off the bat so doing work to it is expected. We're steadying ourselves for as much of the coming wave of broken stuff as we can lol

It's fitting that you mentioned the Yachts and Victron, Cheney's father is a Hampton Yachts broker! And one of the things that ultimately drew us to Prevost (and Newell to some degree) was the fact that we found more high end, more quality, and just more stuff that we recognized in these "Ultimate" class buses than the horrid state of affairs in the sticks & staples / glass coach models from the Newmar, Monaco, American, (any of the RevGroup drech now), Winnebago, Travel Supreme etc. Although we ourselves are not *monied* in the way someone who can buy a 500k, 800k, 1Mil, 2Mil Prevost is... we understand that quality & value often comes from these places of cost. As such, we have always worked with what we call the "Used Luxury" method. As an example, with cars we only buy used luxury vehicles (currently we own 3 Infiniti's and a Lexus) - but we buy them for pennies on the dollar and keep up with the maintenance that can be done with our own two hands. We replace our own CV axles, our own struts and brakes, and radiators, and steering racks, and value covers (the list goes on). As for the inside of the bus, the house part, Cheney's renovated two houses and the two of us together renovated another 1x1 apartment for a rental. So we're hoping that experience will translate into the work coming down the line for this 1991 Prevost as well.

The attached pictures are not bus related, but Cheney suggested I include them as examples of how we turned our old 2003/2005 cheapo used Infiniti's into something just a *bit more* all while spending less than the price of a new Smart Fourtwo (I can not believe what they charge for those little hunks of plastic) each!


*** About your own Electrical upgrade. Did you document it? We would absolutely LOVE to get a deep dive on your project. Information like that, as you know, is invaluable!

[BoaterAl]

Honestly...that was a little more then I expected.
Many and probably most of us on this site buy our bus and use it often. We also depend on quality built systems and world class support on malfunctions.
Good luck..... before or after the build maybe time might allow attending a POG rally with your new bus.
AL

[CLRH2O]

Al,

Reality and plans are often two different things admittedly. We have plans, but yes, who knows exactly what version of those plans will materialize in the end.

And we would absolutely love to come to a POG meet up and get to know everyone!