1998 Liberty - Should I run, walk, or negoiate

[Travelingman]

So, I am the new guy. First post..... I have taken all the information that I have written down or remembered after joining this site into the field to search for a Prevost. So today the wife and I looked at our third coach. We have narrowed our search down to Liberty or Marathon in no particular order. Today we looked at a 1998 Elegant Lady with XXX,000 plus miles on it. Laminates are cracked , rust in Webasto cabinet, missing a couch, engine bay looks unkept, many of the air operate solenoids are disconnected, and the water service area looks like it has leaks, and OTR Canisters just looks nasty with rust. It's like the coach was put away wet and driven around salt. Generator has 4000 plus hours. etc..

I am not afraid of fixing things because I am around Corporate Aircraft Completions all my life so I know what I can live with and not live with. The owner says the auto leveling system constantly is running to level the coach.... so he manually levels it with bubble level and then blocks it up with wood. But here's some pictures of a few things and video of OTR compressor and engine running. What's your thoughts when you look at the photos, build sheets and video. Pictures are worth 1000 words so I do not have to write anymore. Owner pretty honest has had coach since 2004. Speedometer replaced and Odometer not reading correct milelage in my opinion. I am curious about the touch pad system and how good it is and if it is still supported by Liberty. The electronics bays are clean. Hopefully this Dropbox link works... Prevost records from original owner take coach to 210,000 plus miles.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wdtl16ptlnztooo/AACQ0Y2AASD9Za_p1e-J8VgBa?dl=0

Comments appreciated

ed

[Joe Camper]

R u looking for a project? R u a good tech and mechanic. Is it being given away?

If I were buying another I'd buy a liberty or a marathon too. I am a mechanic. Given that, I would not have the capital recourses to give that bus what it desires.

Your current concerns r what u can see, there's plenty u dont. This is dangerously potentially one of those buses that even if the purchase price is put aside and not included the potential repairs alone would exceed it's value.

[Travelingman]

I very much respect your comment because I have read many of your comments prior to posting. I actually thought of you before I posted.... and said what would Joe Camper to say. I believe you operate out of Chicago but go on the road to fix things. My concern is the bus side verses the Liberty side. I could probable deal with the Liberty side because I am a tinkerer. But the bus side is ???? Thank you for your comment. What do think the values of the 1996 Bus is without the Liberty Conversion?

[Gil_J]

My first response would be to run. But that really wouldn't be fair. It depends on price, the cost of repairs, and your expectations on resale.

You might want to be a bit more concerned on the Liberty side. Liberty generally doesn't supply electrical drawings, although they are good about answering your questions.

It's 30 years old, so expect some component and system obsolescence. The Watch Dog generator controller is not supported, but can be replaced with a better system. Being an Elegant Lady, it may have the Allen-Bradley control system for lighting and switching most Liberty systems. If so, eBay will be your source of parts.

I recommend you have it taken to Detroit/Allison shop to have the engine and transmission looked at. They can tell you the mileage, as long as the engine computer hasn't been changed. The coach needs to have the suspension and under carriage inspected. Some charter bus companies will do that. Of course, the Liberty systems need to checked for functionality.

Don't overlook the high dollar consumables like tires and batteries. They can push $10K. And don't think everything needs to replaced that's 10 years old. Of course, a lot of 30 year items should be replaced.

Cracked laminate is a problem to replace. Getting the same pattern may be impossible. It's also a huge job to remove the cabinetry to fix.

I could see your posted docs, but not the pictures. Even being a Liberty, the year and known problems likeky makes this a sub $120K coach.

[Travelingman]

Gill ......Thank you for your comments. I'll work on why the pictures do not show in Dropbox. I am thinking the same on price and even lower. The reason for asking what just a 1996 Prevost shell in good shape would cost is to look at costs both ways. When looking over the records the original owner records were there. The second owners records had no visits to Prevost. If something was not working 2nd owner just disconnected it or removed it. The coach is dated, wiring looks to be in good shape, powdery substance in FWD Electrical Bay by remote Air compressor plug he installed. Looks like a leak in water service bay with all discoloration on pipes and water stains on tank. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wdtl16ptlnztooo/AACQ0Y2AASD9Za_p1e-J8VgBa?dl=0









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[GoneCrazy]

Like Gil said , Tire date codes / condition. And house batteries and chassis battery dates. 4000 hrs is not a lot for that generator if it has been taken care of. Detroit Allison inspection and Prevost inspection would be a great idea. How does the paint and stainless look ? And the roof ? Whate state is it in , and has it been stored inside or outside ? Any indications of water leaks inside ? That year of a coach will soon need a refridgerator , microwave , TV upgrades and maybe new true sigh wave inverters. Suspension repairs and upgrades can be costly. Worth fixing , Absoultly provided you can purchase it at a desireable price. Its a Prevost ! I would say get the inspections and recommendations and prices for them. Then negotiate with the owner based on what it needs to bring it up to where you would like to see it. Just do Your homework and make an educated decision. You might get by right now by spending 10-15K to put tires and batteries in and repair and replace other items as You go. Liberty is very helpful when You need them. On the other hand You could easily spend 50K and still have a long list of items that You want to do ? Post some pictures of the outside if You get a chance. Have you rode in it or drove it yet ?

[Travelingman]

GoneCrazy...thanks for reply.

1. The tires are all date coded 0511 or 1811. So all made between 5 week and 18 week 2011. All tires are Michellin. They all look good.
2. Stainless looks real good but on drivers side rear cap corner he scrap his bus barn and caused a dent in lower ground valance and scrapped paint of upper moldings. Paint is OK.
3. It has a new Frigidaire side by side.
4. The windshields are in good condition and he has a spare windshield.
5. Microwave was replaced with a Sharps Carousel.
6. It is in a barn at the moment.
7. It's been operating life has been in Texas and southwest with trips to Colorado, Florida, New Mexico.
8. Air Bags are original 2nd owner never replaced and no paperwork from first owner. - $5K back
9. AC dryer is all rusted but dryer window is clear and OTR compressor turns on when asked for.
10. No signs inside coach of leaks but under the supports in water bay and water bay it looks like water sprayed all over the place with mineral deposits.
11. I think tires can go a couple more years - $6K back
12. Air operated doors do not work, the Auto level system runs constantly, many air solenoids are disconnected, their was water in the Awning arms - $4K back
13. Shocks all around $3K back
14. It has all manuals including Liberty electrical wiring diagrams book that's 3/4 inch thick.
15. The clear coat on roof is peeling everywhere, new rhino lining spray roof - $4K back
16 Inside is just fair looking ... very old. - $40k to fix it up

I estimate $65K - 70K in maintenance and interior fixing up and making it where I would feel comfortable so I am not over market at this time. It just doesn't have that I was maintained look and there are some very good deals out there. So I would have to get a great deal. During the paperwork research I realized that I know the first owner is Aerospace industry aquaintance. So I am going to call him, it's been 5 years since he an I talk.

I have not rode in..... it yesterday we just looked at systems and condition.

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[truk4u]

Ed,

Based on the pictures, unless you’re looking for a project and have a big bag of gold to spend, run as fast as you can.

[BoaterAl]

Bus speaks for itself as a fixer upper....when all is said and done you will still have a 1998 Liberty with over 210,000 miles.

[Travelingman]

Thank to all for your comments. As I mentioned above I thought I knew the first owner and I was correct. I spoke to the him this morning. He has had multiple Liberty's since he sold this coach in 2003. With your comments and, his I am closing this thread out. I am still looking for a 1999 through 2002 Liberty or Marathon coach in great shape.

[GoneCrazy]

I like the color of paint and the design. She appears to be sitting level, But way above ride height. When you say the leveling system has to run all the time to keep it level. What are You talking about running ? She obviously has Aux air issues with the dump valves unhooked and the pocket doors not working. Does the floor slide over the entry steps work ? The air seat and air horns work ? Are you maybe hearing the Aux compressor running constantly ? 200K on a series 60 is not a lot of miles if it checks out mechanically. Have an oil analysis done on engine and trans. ( saved Me a boatload of $$ one time I had a 52’ Yacht under contract ) Have Prevost check everything out throughly. Especially the pneumatic system. A coach like that in primo shape would be in the ballpark of 140-175K range maybe based on what I have seen online. She needs a lot of love , But She has RIVETS ! :cool:

[Travelingman]

Thanks GoneCrazy for comment... the owner would have to sell the coach for sub $100K for me to be interested and accomplish the mechanicals and fixing and still be under todays market value. My subconscious (wife) has actually said no because as she put's it "they just didn't take care of it and do not want to sell it but are looking for someone to give their price ... her observation is that they are not using it ... listed it for sale .... and left all there clothes and junk in it". You can't argue with that logic.

[Joe Camper]

We have a pogger. Jeff St Aubin he has a 96 marathon XL non slide with a 60 series, with otr ac and trace inverters. It's for sale if u want his number call me or go to his profile he is in Mantino ill.

[Gil_J]

If your goal is to get a coach that needs some TLC, you might want to let the dealers know. They often come across wholesale opportunities for coaches they don't want to put the time into.

[Travelingman]

Thank you for your reply...We are having a ice storm in Texas Hill Country right now.... so ice in. They closed most everything except for the internet ;-). Gil, I did let Legacy Coach in Rockwell, TX know what I am looking for.

[GoneCrazy]

Thanks GoneCrazy for comment... the owner would have to sell the coach for sub $100K for me to be interested and accomplish the mechanicals and fixing and still be under todays market value. My subconscious (wife) has actually said no because as she put's it "they just didn't take care of it and do not want to sell it but are looking for someone to give their price ... her observation is that they are not using it ... listed it for sale .... and left all there clothes and junk in it". You can't argue with that logic.

That one would be a fixer upper for sure. You learned some of the things to be aware of by looking at that coach. There is a nice 1996 liberty on San Antonio Craigslist that has had everything done to it. Good luck with Your search.