Tire Inflation

[Jon Wehrenberg]

When I changed my steer axle tires a month ago the hardest part was sealing the bead so it would take air. I don't have the 6 gallon compressed air tank with the big valve used in truck tire repair shops so I ended up running a log chain around the circumference and tightening it up with a load binder to spread the bead. It was too much like work.

So I am going to replace the drive axle tires and this time I will approach this problem scientifically. I am trying to calculate the correct amount of starting fluid (ether) or gasoline necessary to not only seat the bead, but to eliminate the pesky step of using air for inflation.

I'm wondering if anyone has done any calculations to determine the proper quantity of explosive material to seat the beads and inflate to 85.5 PSI?

I have amassed all the materials such as a can of starter fluid, a few gallons of 87 octane, a butane lighter, and asbestos gloves. If nobody has the scientific answer to my question regarding quantity, I was also wondering if there is anyone that will let me practice on their bus tires?

BTW, will eyebrows and eyelashes grow back?

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Just a squirt of starter fluid will do, not to worry, its easy. Start out with less if your concerned about your eyebrows or hurting the tire.

Jon ya know someone with your fab. background can make that air tank your lacking pretty easy. I know plenty of guys who have. The price to buy one is about 100 times what it costs to make it. Its also a great tool to have.

[Orren Zook]

Joe's right - just a squirt and the use book matches instead of your butane lighter.... they stay ignited for a while while you toss them into the rim, plus it helps keeps from singeing your eyelashes, brows and hairline. I'd also wrap that log chain you used the last time around the rim and tire and tie it off on a tree or some other solid mount until you get the ether spray amount figured out.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I hope you guys aren't taking me serious.

BTW, I would never litter the inside of my tire with a burnt match.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

I concidered you concidering that:D

What about my making one idea?

[Petervs]

Jon, I think you just volunteered for the grand finale demonstration at POG III!

Just like at Oshkosh when they do the warbird finale they have lots of pyrotechnics and I think POG should have that too.

Peter VS
94 Marathon XLV

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Peter,

Did you just volunteer your coach and tires? If you are willing to make such a generous offer, I am willing to light the match.

I have a feeling that Roger, who really is from TN, is shaking his head wondering why we are talking about this. As a real TN boy I'll bet he uses this method to fill the car tires on his used car lot, and that is how most of his customers fill the trailer tires when they have to move.

In western NY we filled tires with calcium and water. I never could get that stuff to ignite, but then again it wouldn't freeze.

[Jerry Winchester]

Jon,

Last time I had to do that we used a large ratchet strap and just sucked it up until the bead was close.

I have seen the pyro method done, but have never attempted it myself.

JDUB

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I'm replacing the drive axle tires after POGIII and since my ratchet straps were the small variety (hence the logging chain) I will visit Northern and get a bigger strap. I will use some light gauge sheet metal strips from the factory to allow the straps to slide easier on the tread of the new tires.

All joking aside, before the tanks with the large valve became the standard way to seat the bead, starting fluid was the way it was done. Quick and easy, and the loud noise is kind of neat. Especially when it is done inside the shop (factory) and your wife is doing the payroll.

[Orren Zook]

Jon,

I can get 2"x30' strap with ratchet, 15000# capacity(clip style) for $10.80 each, if you want me to bring one or more to POG III let me know.

[garyde]

Sounds like a Potatoe Bazooka is needed.

[mikedee]

I have done the ether starting fluid trick many times. We used it to set race car tires for years. Like Jon say's it was standard practice when I was a kid.

I am older and smarter, don't do it.

Mike

[Jim_Scoggins]

About a three second burst of propane works!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Since I lack the guts to set off any kind of explosive event in my garage I ruled out ether, a cup of gasoline rolled around the inside of the tire, or a few spurts of propane. I opted instead for the poor man's method of seating the bead on my tires. I bought a bead seating O ring from Gemplers ($34 delivered) and in less than a minute I had the bead seated on a tire that I couldn't get sealed.

I now will no longer have to cringe when the kid with the GED scratches and bangs my polished aluminum wheels when changing or repairing a tire. In less time than it would take me to even get to a tire shop for repairs or tire change I can now do my own, even when the tires have been compressed in a stack and the bead isn't even close to seating on the rim.

For those of you who are anal or who don't mind doing your own work I think with the tire irons and the O ring I have less than $100 in the tools to do all my own work on tires.

Six Michelins, five years old, road legal tread depth, free to whoever wants them. 315-80R22.5

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Jon? Do you pound your old rubber off the rims or do you use some sort of press!:p JIM
Please make this tire tip/trip complete.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jim et al,

For those who have never tried to change their own tires it is fairly simple.

The aluminum wheels don't require any effort to break the bead. When deflated the rubber often will just fall away from the rim, but if it doesn't just knocking the wheel and tire down onto a blanket covered floor knocks it loose.

The steel wheels were almost as easy when I broke the bead. One side came loose upon deflation, but I had to walk around the bead on the other side and it dropped free.

Two tire irons and about 4 or 5 minutes has the rubber off the rim. It takes a little longer to remount the rubber onto the wheels but not much. I would say about 8 to 10 minutes is all it takes to get the tire mounted and with the O ring about 2 or 3 minutes to seat the beads.

I used to think the tire changing guys were highly skilled or talented, but the reality is once you know the moves it is just a matter of following the steps.

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Jon

You have a strong back:rolleyes:

What do they call that tool that replaced the irons? Ya know that pole with the brass claw with nylon rollers?

Someone needs to get to your wife with that info and have her get that for you for Christmas. I think you deserve it.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Good deal on all the tire stuff Jon.
Because of some of your previous comments I am wondering if you used a few of the products you implied you would: Balance rings, or balance beads, tire temp and pressure monitor, second valve stems? Please comment.
Do you believe in the nitrogen gas for inflation? Did you use it?
It is said that it keeps out moisture and holds a more stable pressure because of that!
How long are the tire irons you use?
Do you lube the lug nuts?
Did you look at the rear brakes since the wheels were off?
Did you stick with the M tires?
:confused: :) JIM

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I use Equal to balance the tires. I have used that with great success since the mid nineties I think. It has eliminated the need to rely on a tire shop for balancing and it eliminates the weights that get stuck on or hammered on the polished wheels, and it works better. The cost of balancing rings relative to Equal does not justify their use.

I do not use tire monitors. I do pre-trip tire pressure checks. I use the tire stem caps that allow me to check and fill tires without removing them. They also function as a second seal. No extensions since I posted the pictures of how they wore. I knew better but did not remove them when I bought the coach. Shame on me.

I use air. I suppose I could get a small tank of nitrogen and use it, but I just don't see the need. I've read all the reasons to use it, but most of the hype is written by companies that want to sell something. My opinion.

Tire irons are about 42 or 48 inches long.

Never ever lube lug nuts. All torque values are dry clean values.

I do not need to remove the drive wheels to see the drive axle brake linings. I can see them from under the bus. I DO have to remove the wheels to see the brake pad thickness on the disk brakes on the steer and tag axles.

My new tires were made in Shanghai and are not made by M. I consider this an experiment. Brand M will get to five years of age just as quickly as the ones I installed. I will consider my experiment a success if the new tires run smooth (I balanced them with Equal), and do not have any failures not related to damage from foreign objects on the road. The decision was easy. With all the costs factored into the decision the savings was between $1200 and $1500. Except for the inconvenience, if two of then new tires fail and have to be replaced during their life I broke even, because any failure will be replaced by M.

I respect the comments about Brand M versus the Chinese product, but since nobody offered a Consumer Reports type analysis to support the use of the Michelin, and comments from folks like Joe that have experience with "cheap" tires I figured I'll give it a shot. If my experiment fails I can assure everyone I have made dumber and more expensive mistakes.

[lewpopp]

Jon,

We appreciate the experiment and we hope it works out for all of us. If it does make you dumber, let's hope it won't be your last mistake.

I have Toyo on the front and have had a good experience so far for 2 years.


Lew

[matsprt]

Jon,

I just bought another 200 tires (Chinese) for some of my fleet. I have used them for about 2 years in volume. They have not disappointed. I think you will be satisfied.

In your application as you pointed out tires die of age not mileage. They will be fine. The money saved can be put toward more tools....or exotic fuel for beading tires...

NOTHING more entertaining than watching tires guys use flammable fluids for setting beads (from a distance). :D Best laugh I've had in a while.

Michael

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Michael,

For years all they used to seat beads was ether and a match. I think when OSHA started getting after tire shops they changed to the "Cheetah" air tank and tire cages.

I still think at a POG session we should have a contest. Everybody gets a can of gas, gets to break the bead on one side of the tire, and then has to calculate how much gas it would take to seat the bead and inflate the tire to the correct pressure. Those that survived the exercise would win an award.:D The survivor that inflated his tire closest to the required tire pressure would get one year free dues and a promise not to have pictures of his singed eyebrows posted on POG.

[matsprt]

Jon,

I've seen many road service trucks use "solid" soap. First time I saw it used I thought it was grease. I asked and was told no, they use soap as it breaks down after time. Besides, if you get moisture in your tire/wheel it makes bubbles and the bubbles rise helping to reduce weight !! ;)

Michael

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Then I definitely think we need to include this as a bonus item in the POG tire inflation contest. The winner must not only survive the tire inflation portion of the contest, but bonus points will be awarded for the POG member with the lightest tire/wheel combination.

To create a little interest for the ladies (apart from their interest in how cute their hubby's hair will look when singed) perhaps we can expand the scope. Since the tire lube is generally a variation of soy bean oil, perhaps the contest will include some points for the best salad made with leftover tire lube for a dressing.

[rfoster]

Sounds like a couple of new comedians Starring Lawrence Welk and the Bubble Makers. hehe Hell -you got to have hair before you can get it afire.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

To quote Anaconda Boy...."That was way harsh"

[rfoster]

Sorry, didn't mean it to be way harsh, just ball bustin, - I read somewhere once upon a time that way harsh was like shot thru the heart - a 10 out of 10. I was going for maybe a five. I apologize. I still like bubbles but will pass on Lawrence.:cool: