Liberty Coach Co.

[m stuller]

About six months ago my dreadful sickness came back of motorhomeidiss and i needed a fix. I went through the first stages of justification and got through that in reasonable short order. After that, the reasearch started and in about one hour i decided that i must of been a bus diriver in my prior life and was drawn to the Prevost. I first looked at used conversions and quickly decided the smell of new really helped me feel better. So, i started looking at a few of the conversion companies and concluded quickly that they all had some real nice things that they offered that others didn't and also they had things i really did not like. I realized that the perfect Prevost conversion company has not been created yet!

I am getting ready to write a big fat check and i just wanted to question all you guys and girls out there to anything i need to know about Liberty that would change my mind?

In all fairness, I thank the dealers in advance not to comment.

[MangoMike]

M.

I've owned Liberty ('97xl) and can't say anything bad about the company. And would purchase another without hesitation.

I currently own a Marathon ('00 H3) and can't say anything bad about Marathon either, very pleased.

I am also very impressed with Millennium and if you havent' done so yet - check them out.

Welcome to POG -- we like the guys who can write the big one. ;)

Mike

[Toy Box]

I'm a veteran of and have successfully survived mpd. We had a marathon from 90 to about 95, then discovered Liberty. I'm on my second one now. I currently have a 2000 xlv Liberty classic. I can't say enough about our experience with the entire sales , service and mfg. teams. I do most of my own service work in my own shop. but I have been to both the Chicago and Stuart facilities. The folks there are always very eager to help with whatever I have asked them to do. You can't ask for a better group. I am sure my next bus will be another Liberty. Did I mention I really like my last two Liberties? As fast Roger or Jon pointed out, I am not on the dark side, I have LED's whatever that means.

[garyde]

M. Stuller
I too went thru many gyrations before landing at Liberty. I had a new CC bought but could not get financing I wanted. I spoke with Liberty about several Coaches, and like Magic, I purchased my 1st Prevost. It was and is a very unique experience. Gary

[Jon Wehrenberg]

When you buy a Liberty you not only get the coach, but for as long as you have that Liberty you have the company standing behind it.

Like Toy Box I do all my own work, but whenever I am stumped or need advice I make a call to Liberty and they always are willing and capable of addressing my needs. I am not a newcomer either. I have owned Liberty coaches since 1990 (we've only owned two) and in all that time I have never heard anybody criticize the Liberty support of their coaches.

[Jerry Winchester]

Matt,

Get that check book out so you can come hang at Kerrville. You're hearing from the Liberty brain trust of the POG and they are all pretty solid. Except for Jon. He is soiled.

JDUB

[rmboies]

[QUOTE=m stuller;10567]I am getting ready to write a big fat check and i just wanted to question all you guys and girls out there to anything i need to know about Liberty that would change my mind?

Our first Prevost was a Liberty and they make a beautiful conversion. We have since had two Vantares and they are nice coaches as well. If this is the coach you have been searching for then busdriver, write that check:D ! I think you will be very pleased that you did......

[rfoster]

M. Stuller: My two Cents-- Liberty --Great company, very,very good people, excellent product --

Carolyn, Dave, : send me 20 lewbucks.:cool:

[Just Plain Jeff]

m stuller: Welcome to POG!

We need people like you to write The Big Check for those of us who are bottom feeders to have more coaches to choose from.

When a someone's looking for a new coach of the caliber of a new Prevost conversion, it's my sense that what they are seeking is not really, "The Best," rather a Personal Best.

That means a couple of things: First of all, you want to find a coach that you walk into and say, "Hey, this just great. We could live in this!" It has been referred to elsewhere on this site as the "Eureka" moment, by a guy who was originally involved in the 1849 California Gold Rush. Call it what you will, it is the experience of knowing that the coach you are standing in, sitting in, is just right.

So that's the first part.

The second part is equally important, perhaps even more so.

Here it is: You are beginning, with a new coach, a relationship with an organization which is to be there to earn your business, provide support, training, information, guidance and most of all, one which is going to be around for awhile.

For the individual writing The Big Check, I'd recommend that you look at those two factors first and go from there. Oh, there are many who would like to help you write The Big Check, but since it comes out of your account, you're the one who should be pleased with not only the coach, but the selection process, the quality of support and the match between your personal needs and the organization that is going to be there to support you.

Free advice is what it's worth! Good luck and keep checking in with us; it'll be interesting to see where you wind up!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Since JPJ decided to be crass and talk about money, you will learn very quickly buying a coach is not cheap, and buying a Liberty is even more expensive. I know a couple of things that I hope others will comment on.

First, it is probable the Liberty will hold its value as good as any other converter's product and better than most.

But more importantly, long after you have forgotten how much you paid you will still be secure in the knowledge you have one of the best, if not the best coach, and the level of support that other converters provide will rarely equal the continuing support Liberty will provide. It is hard to place a pricetag on that support, but when you need it it is priceless.

[Petervs]

Is this some kind of mutual admiration society? Why not spit out some of the real truth here? The poor guy ( well, he will be poor AFTER he writes the check) asked an honest question, he deserves a real answer!

I am not a Liberty owner, but I know someone who is, and I have heard more than a minute amount of grumbling about the Liberty proprietary attitude about handing out wiring diagrams so you can troubleshoot ( they won't give them out) and the funny generator control that does not work and can not be fixed except by a $1400 replacement part that is designed to do the same thing, and oh, lets not forget about that weird single holding tank so if you back up your shower you get what was once in your toilet there too, and gee, there might be other issues, but the Liberty owners should really comment themselves, assuming they remove their heads from the clouds for a few minutes.

My $0.02

Peter vS
94 Marathon XLV

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Is this some kind of mutual admiration society? Why not spit out some of the real truth here? The poor guy ( well, he will be poor AFTER he writes the check) asked an honest question, he deserves a real answer!

I am not a Liberty owner, but I know someone who is, and I have heard more than a minute amount of grumbling about the Liberty proprietary attitude about handing out wiring diagrams so you can troubleshoot ( they won't give them out) and the funny generator control that does not work and can not be fixed except by a $1400 replacement part that is designed to do the same thing, and oh, lets not forget about that weird single holding tank so if you back up your shower you get what was once in your toilet there too, and gee, there might be other issues, but the Liberty owners should really comment themselves, assuming they remove their heads from the clouds for a few minutes.

My $0.02

Peter vS
94 Marathon XLV

Way to go Peter! Let it all hang out before I jump into the pot. What else is being held back? Anybody! :cool: :eek: JIM

I wonder if this is like the age old thing CHEVY vs FORD and no matter what, once you start with one you don't change?

[Imre]

Very interesting group indeed. People are recommending the $1.9M new coaches to clueless buyers while themselves driving 10 year old buses and being proud of single handedly changing $200 air bags with double bottle jacks! What is the definition of a hypocrite :(

[Jerry Winchester]

Well this is certainly a new attitude.

While I own a coach that is 15 years old, I guess that limits me to offering advice or information that only relates to vintage coaches. I'll make sure to keep from offering my hypocritical opinion to buyers of new coaches in the future.

However, seeing as how I have know M. Stuller for some 10 years, I'll let him decide what he does with the info. This isn't his first coach.

[Imre]

Yeah exactly, it would be nice to have a new attitude and drop the sales talk like "But more importantly, long after you have forgotten how much you paid you will still be secure in the knowledge you have one of the best, if not the best coach, and the level of support that other converters provide will rarely equal the continuing support Liberty will provide.". This is nonsense and is just misleading for the uninitiated. Has the source owned a new coach of all the leading converters? Has he dealt with all of them? Last I checked this was a forum of users not company reps. Funny that it was exactly the same source that complained about the objectivity of the other posts!

Just to avoid confusions, the newness of a coach is important ONLY because it sets the baseline for the company to today and not to 5 or 10 years ago. Coach conversions are very sensitive to the used technologies and 5 or 10 years cannot be ignored in an objective evaluation.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Leave it to Peter to dig at open sores. I cannot say I disagree with what he says, but on the other hand, the closest think in terms of complexity that I can compare to my coach is my plane, or my house, or one of my cars. They also have some features that I am less than happy with, but unlike my Liberty getting service on any of them is painful and expensive.

I have never purchased a product that was as well supported by the manufacturer as my Liberty coach. And the most ironic part of that is I never purchased a coach from Liberty, but despite that they go out of their way to help me when I need help.

As to handing out proprietary information...Peter and the others need to understand a little background in this business. Vantare was built by a guy that bought a Liberty coach and he reverse engineered it to start a company that competed with Liberty. If they got a little sensitive about having their efforts plagiarized I can understand why. But it doesn't stop there. If you look at the Vogue conversions (which eventually became Featherlite like Vantare) the plagiarism even went so far as to copy the Liberty aluminum logo plate between the headlights. If I had competitors not above stealing ideas I also would limit access to information.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Imre,

Mr. Stuller asked about Liberty coach. I'm fairly certain none of us poor folks that change our own airbags using bottle jacks are planning to spend his money for him. All we are trying to do is answer his question.

What has got your shorts in a knot that makes you want to attck others for rendering an opinion?

We do a lot of ball breaking on this site, but it is all good natured. We know one another, and we are friends. You are coming across as the Grinch.

[MangoMike]

M. Stuller said it right at the beginning the perfect conversion company is not around yet. But Liberty, in my humble 10 year old bus opinion, comes pretty close - albiet at a hefty price tag. Yes they have some propietary items like their Generator Watch Dog. But to their credit they don't try to jam a new one down your throat if it's acting up, like mine did this summer. Their suggestion was to send it in and they would have it professionally checked by an outside source. Which they did, finding no problem and not charging me a dime for the consult. (Turns out the generator battery was on the old side and not giving it's fullest to the electronic controls). And Peter is right, they won't give up their wiring diagrams, but it's never stopped them from helping me find a solution to an electrical problem over the the phone.

I've just started having contact with Marathon over my 2000 H3 (hey I'm down to just 7 years old) and have found them to be just as helpful. Is there somethings I like better about the Liberty - sure, but there's also things I like better about the Marathon. You can't have it all - ask my wife about her husband.

923



As the guy who has changed his $200 air bags w/ bottle jacks, I'm not sure if I should be offended or not. I thought it was a badge of courage to change it myself. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that everyone on this board can well afford to have someone else change their airbags/oil/filters etc. I run four restaurants with staffing over 200 and my relaxation comes with being alone in the bus barn tinkering with the bus. Much cheaper than a analyst or mistress, plus the side benefit is learning something new and being able to handle future (and you know they will be there) problems with the bus. I'm sure M. Stuller is astute enough to know that no-one, regardless the year of their bus, knows it all. He's just trying to get the flavor.

Back to my bottle jacks.

mm

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

You can't have it all - ask my wife about her husband. mm


Mike, I have asked your wife, AND YOUR RIGHT :D

Gary S

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

MAN IT SURE GOT COLD ON THIS POG SITE TODAY !!!!!!

Time for everyone to go get their favorite Beverages, and have a HAPPY VALENTINES DAY
Gary S

[Imre]

Jon,

There has to be a grinch :)

I find your technical posts to be really good and they are absolutely helpful. I only attack the posts that are preaching in nature and judgemental without much basis. And since you seem to be the driving force behind this forum, I am especially sensitive when you start to mix the BS into your posts!

BTW, I do all the work on my bus (and fully intend to change airbags myself when the time comes, maybe not with 2 bottle jacks but one and some wooden blocks :) . My post was not about pitting "us poor folks" against the "rich" but to establish a common baseline among companies and to qualify the advice intended for a person that is specifically looking at the current state of affairs.

As far as friendship is concerned, I don't care much about being friends with you. It is more important for me to have a technically useful forum with variety and IMHO your preaching just intimidates people. So, I am perfectly fine to be the grinch :)

[glen schapansky]

About six months ago my dreadful sickness came back of motorhomeidiss and i needed a fix. I went through the first stages of justification and got through that in reasonable short order. After that, the reasearch started and in about one hour i decided that i must of been a bus diriver in my prior life and was drawn to the Prevost. I first looked at used conversions and quickly decided the smell of new really helped me feel better. So, i started looking at a few of the conversion companies and concluded quickly that they all had some real nice things that they offered that others didn't and also they had things i really did not like. I realized that the perfect Prevost conversion company has not been created yet!

I am getting ready to write a big fat check and i just wanted to question all you guys and girls out there to anything i need to know about Liberty that would change my mind?

In all fairness, I thank the dealers in advance not to comment.
Just can't say enough about the find folks @ Liberty. Just a couple of weeks ago I purchased a coach down in Stuart. We have been getting it ready for the ride home back to Alberta over the telephone with all the little things that needed to be done.They all want to help a guy out. This being our first coach & would buy again from Liberty.Great People

[rfoster]

Very interesting group indeed. People are recommending the $1.9M new coaches to clueless buyers while themselves driving 10 year old buses and being proud of single handedly changing $200 air bags with double bottle jacks! What is the definition of a hypocrite :(
What a dumba$$ remark. I have read and reread and I don't see anyone recommending a $1.9 million coach to Mr. Muller or anyone else for that matter. I think your signature should be changed to IRREVELANT as that is the way I view your post. It appears you are mistaken as the coaches I generally look at are in the are of 300,000 to 900.000, but regardless of that I am sure no one is going to take my word for it, even if it was 10,000 they will look, study, analyze, wring their hands, squint their beaty little eyes and be paranoid about the price and the purchase. In addition I don't use double bottle jacks, I use air assisted hydraulic jacks to raise my coach and I am damm proud of changing my air bags. Let there be no doubt that I changed them because I wanted to and not cause I couldn't afford to pay lewbucks to do it. I, as Mango wear it as a badge of honor. With that attitude in mind, I don't need your freindship either.

Peter - get your aquaintance into POG and as you know we will be glad to help in any way possible.

[MangoMike]

Glen,

Welcome to POG - regardless of what you drive.

Please keep us posted as to your escapades and adventures with your new bus.


Mike

[dreadnought]

Somehow my password got ****ed up & I could not log in for awhile. I got a new one so I could stick my .02 in.
As Yall know I bought an 05 Liberty back in October. We looked at everything out there before deciding on Liberty. We narrowed it down to Liberty and Marathon because they are the 2 biggest converters and we felt either company would be around for the long haul for service and this would protect the coaches value. We could have bought a brand new Thompson for less than the 2 year old Liberty and I think Thompson makes a gorgeous coach. If I'd had the money to write the check I might have gone that route. We're not poor, I guess you'd call us "working wealthy," so we borrowed the money and took the plunge. One thing that made me feel good about Liberty was their statement, "when you're through with this coach, we want it back. We build every coach with the intention of selling it 5 times over the course of it's life." It feels good to know that if we need to bail, a phone call would take care of it. I'm sure that as the worlds largest converter Marathon would be the same.
We wound up with Liberty because when we saw our coach we knew it was "IT." Liberty and Marathon are at the top of their field, they know it, and you freaking well pay for it.

[kmuller]

Guys..... a while back there was discussion about rules on the forum. Years ago I ran across some "rules" written by a bunch of old Pennsylvania Dutch men as it pertained to their hunting camp. It simply said " All members must deport themselves in a gentlemanly manner with the due regard to the pleasures and rights of others". They were and are wise words.

With that said, every decision has it's risk/reward that needs to be individually balanced. If we took the cost of a bus, new or used, annual maintenance, insurance, storage etc and divided by days used, we would all qualify to be institutionalized. The fact that we all don't live in double-wides and drive ten year old cars says there is more to life then being rational. Own or rent a RV lot, buy a new or ten year old bus, work on it yourself or have it serviced......these are choices that drive the free market. So let's just drive what we like, work on it ourselves or not, park where we want and enjoy our diversity of choice.

[Imre]

Mr. Roger That!

Let me translate my sentence for you:


People are recommending the $1.9M new coaches to clueless buyers while themselves driving 10 year old buses and being proud of single handedly changing $200 air bags with double bottle jacks! (

You are recommending someone to buy a new Liberty coach (lists for $1.9M) not because you are aware of its current technical features (the only thing that would differentiate it from the competition) but because you own one that was designed and built 10 years ago with different components by different people. And you recommend the excellent service to the prospective buyer while you are proudly blabing to everyone that you yourself repair everything on your coach. Repairs as cheap as a $200 airbag replacement and as involved as an airbag replacement on a 50,000 pound coach. And you do that while disregarding the most elementary mechanic's rules, that is you use bottle jacks (double, that is 2) to hold the bus up (bottle jacks were designed for lifting and not holding). So what is the value of that advice?

Roger that?

[Petervs]

Hello All,

Well, this thread sure got a fire lit under it after my post this morning. A couple of comments:

1. Jon, Yes a coach is complex, but in terms of getting things worked on, my house is not in the same league. Things cost less to get done, there are people all over that can do it, and rarely is much needed. OK, so every so often you decide to replace the carpet and it costs more than a coach, but geez, we are talking 3000 feet of carpet for my house and only 300 for the coach.

As for working on my plane, well I do it all myself because it is such a pain to take it anywhere and have it done right. But that is just me and I live on the airport so it is pretty easy for me. Plus, installing a new 300 hp engine at 300 pounds is simple compared to installing a 3500 pound Series 60 in a bus. And avgas smells so much better than diesel on your hands.

2. Jon, as for the proprietary information, I have had some questions of Marathon that were wiring related, and they were immediately answered by them giving me a photocopy of the diagram for the item in question from the build book of MY coach. They do not hand out the whole book, but they are perfectly willing to give me the portion that will solve my problem. Liberty does not do that, according to my friend Brian.

3. Sure, each converter copies the good ideas of the others. If the ideas are really special they can patent them. Some systems are complicated enough that you can only justify the engineering if you can amortize it over a larger number of coaches which would limit those things to the bigger converters. Marathon's Tech Link is an example of that.

4. I have not changed any air bags yet, but I have changed a windshield, door seal, some electronics, house batteries and a host of smaller repairs. After 5 years my Marathon has not needed much else. Yes I could hire it done. Yes I have fun doing it myself. Yes, the POG group helps guide the process so you can decide if you want to tackle it yourself or get professional help.

5. Mango Mike, please do not start suggesting that Poggers ask the wives about their husbands. We do not want this site to devolve into some kind of cross between Oprah and Jerry Springer!

6. Friendship among the group is important. If someone feels alienated they will simply stop contributing and that helps no one. Besides, the fun of the get togethers ( Santa Fe, Kerrville) would be nowhere without the friendships. Now, that does not mean we should not rib each other as much as possible!

7. RFOSTER, you mentioned I should get my acquaintance into POG. Actually, he is a member and he got me into it. He has been working on his Liberty so hard for the past 8 weeks trying to get it ready for a long trip that he has apparently not had time to post lately. Now, my Marathon sits in the garage and all we do is add food and off we go. With Liberty coaches it seems to require more polishing, dirt removal from the wheel wells, and general bling elbow grease.

8. Which brings me to my last question for this post. What is the story on the POG membership. Most names are listed as "Senior Member", and some are listed as just " Member" or "Junior Member". When I joined, without having to show my AARP card (Which I do not have!) or anything else, I was instantly a Senior Member. What's up with that?

If we are to have more than one 'rank', maybe we should get some better choices like GeneralAdmiralissimo, WagonMaster, SuperMechanic, MultiBusOwner or some such.

Peter VS
94 Marathon XLV

[Jon Wehrenberg]

"There has to be a grinch "

That is Lew, and Harry is his backup. Until they give up their posts it ain't you.

"And since you seem to be the driving force behind this forum, I am especially sensitive when you start to mix the BS into your posts!
"

This is a two-parter. Everybody is the driving force behind this forum, and it exists and is successful because everybody contributes. Its originators created this device to allow those of us with common interests to come together and share our opinions, experiences and common interests.

As far as mixing BS in my posts, I will make no secret about my high regard for Liberty, or more precisely the folks at Liberty. I doubt if there is a soul on this forum that does not read my remarks as biased. With a single exception however, I also have never said anything contrary to the interests of any other converter, and in fact have made numerous comments of a highly complimentary nature about most converters. I feel entitled to express my opinions and you are equally entitled. I do not feel entitled however to characterize someone's opinions as BS. As JDUB would say, that is way harsh.

"As far as friendship is concerned, I don't care much about being friends with you. "

Thank you.

"It is more important for me to have a technically useful forum with variety and IMHO your preaching just intimidates people. "

Do us both a favor and don't read my posts. I'll stop reading yours.

[MangoMike]

Point of clarification:

Roger's and I double bottle jack use is always backed up by wood blocking.

Mike

[Imre]

Point of clarification:

Roger's and I double bottle jack use is always backed up by wood blocking.

Mike

Point of clarification:

My comment was directed at Jon. I only saw his double jack setup and safety explanation. I realize that I used the phrase "people" in my comment, but I had only Jon's preaching sentence about Liberty and his (otherwise good) DIY posts in mind. I made the mistake of not explicitly addressing Jon in my comment. I am sorry Mike, if you care. Regarding Roger, I have no clue who he is, I have no recollection of his previous posts and had no idea that he also replaced airbags.

[lewpopp]

ONIONS, ONIONS, ONIONS. EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE ONIONS !!!

So you put me in the same category as Harry. I am honored to be in his category. Damn Harry, Let's give 'em HELL you old delapidated senior citizen. Let's growl and snarl together and take a big chunk out of their JDUB. I'll spit mine out, you do what you want with your chunk.

Whoopppeeee, I love to see type "A" people bitch try to br rational and nice at the same time.

God bless this POG. I become smarter everyday about the bus and the ways of life whether I care to or not. I LOVE IT !!!

Lew

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

RIGHT F----N ON

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Gary S

[garyde]

Peter. The membership status probably follows RV.Net which stratifies you according to the qty of posts.
Imre-Whats up?
Hey Mango..Keep doing what your doing.
Liberty Bashers.....Neh,Neh Neh.

[m stuller]

To Mangomike, Toybox, Garyde, Jon, rmboics, Rfoster, J.P. Jeff and my dear old friend Jerry:

It is very kind for all of you to respond. As importantly i am pleased to see the overwhelming compliments on Liberty. Well, i called today and said its sold and now cant wait to go down to pick it up late next week.

I look foward to getting to know you all and can only hope i can repay the hosipitality you have showed me. My Wife CeCe and my three beautiful kids "thank God they get thier looks from their mom" are extremlly exited about our new wheels and look foward to building memories!
Now, where is the break pedal?

God Bless each of you.

Matt

[JIM KELLER]

W O W ! ! ! !