New Member needing info on Marathon Coaches1990-2002

[B&RBergstrom]

Glad to be here. Have been looking at Prevost for about a year now. Very partial to Marathon conversions.
Limited knowledge, just enough to get in trouble. Any thoughts or information would be welcome
Thank you

[Pete]

Marathon makes great coaches, however if you live or travel in the south (or wherever it is hot} go for one with bus air or has roof top a/c. The Marathons equipped with only cruise air's have a tendency to have high head pressure shut downs, and the coach gets hot fast on the interior.
Good luck in your search, buy a Prevost and enjoy the ride!

[Gil_J]

Marathon has done some great coaches. That may explain why they are still in business.

I'm guessing you are looking at XL models given the years you are looking at. I wouldn't recommend 94 or older. They have the 8V92 engine. Although a good engine, it doesn't compare to the series 60 that was used up until they changed to Volvo engines.

Do you have specific questions? There is so much that makes these coaches operate, narrowing down how we can help would be beneficial.

[dale farley]

Welcome to the POG. I had a 93 Marathon, and I loved the bus, but as Gil said, the 8V92 was just a little dated. I traded mainly to get the Series 60. I never could get used to the smoke from that 2 cycle engine. Marathon has great customer service, but they don't do much when it comes to sharing their manuals.

[Matt_in_AZ]

Welcome to the forum. You will find a wealth of information here from knowledgeable resources. I have owned my first Prevost, a 1997 XLV Marathon, since April. I am very pleased with the purchase. Even more so after a trip in June to Vancouver, BC which included a visit to the Marathon factory in Oregon to take the factory tour. As I am sure you know there are several converters from the years you mentioned that are no longer in business. Those coaches are sometimes nicknamed "orphans". Marathon is one of the few that are still operating. One could argue that those still in business were the best managed. On the tour of the Marathon factory they described how they survived the economic down turn by focusing on service, repairs, and renovations during the period they didn't build (read as couldn't sell) any new coaches. They kept their core employees occupied cleaning the floors, painting, and doing building maintenance just to retain the core knowledge and expertise that created Marathon's reputation for quality. Touring the factory and seeing how they design, fabricate, and build coaches was impressive and I now know why my 20 year old coach has no "creaks", "squeaks", "tweaks", or otherwise while rolling down the road. Extra effort like scribing every interior panel to an exact fit, interlocking (think puzzle pieces) the ceiling panels for strength and durability, and the almost OCD level of routing/labeling/dressing/terminating every wire on the coach adds to both initial quality and long-term usability (not to mention ease of maintenance).

If you have any need for service and support of the Marathon conversion there is no doubt that Marathon is in the business of supporting their fleet of coaches. After the public tour, my family was given the new owner tour of the rest of the operation which included learning about (and eventually joining) the Marathon Owners organization and meeting all of the service, maintenance, and technical managers. They keep track of the coaches by coach number. As owner of Coach #450 three or four of the people we met at Marathon remembered building it originally back in 96/97, maintaining it over the years, the previous owner's upgrades, and some unique aspects of my coach (mine was apparently the first built with Independent Front Suspension or IFS from Prevost). We felt like one of the family right away even though we had the least expensive coach on property.

Marathon is considered one of the best conversions and while the value today of Marathons is competitive with other converters that may change in another 10-15 years as some of the older coaches need more TLC and the existence/availability of factory support commands a premium for those converters still in business compared to the "orphaned" conversions. Only time will tell. However, we saw Country Coaches being renovated by Marathon, so they can work on probably any coach. Also keep in mind that I found more Marathon owners and more Marathon related posts on this forum than some of the orphaned coaches.

My search for a coach included the pre-requisite for a Detroit Diesel Series 60 AND Allison 6-speed transmission with IFS being a "plus" but not required. The pre-emissions DD60 is considered to be one of the best power plants ever produced with longevity that should allow it to easily go 750k miles or perhaps 1M miles before an out-of-frame rebuild. A DD60 pushing a coach with a GVWR of 49,800 lbs. is operating at "light duty" compared to the same motor in a tractor trailer pulling up to 80,000 lbs. all day, every day. A friend just had his oil changed at Detroit Diesel on his 2000 DD60 (also in a Marathon) and saw a post-emissions DD60 motor being rebuilt at under 450k miles which seemed contrary to popular opinion of the DD60 series. The Detroit Diesel mechanics stated that the emissions requirements mandated by government regulation cause the motor to run leaner and hotter which reduces lifespan and the corresponding time between rebuilds. The mechanics stated that the "sweet spot" for Detroit Diesels includes the DD60s introduced in Prevosts around mid-1995 until emissions were added in 2002 (IIRC). These years also are known to get the best fuel mileage as well. This may not seem like a big deal but wait until you pull up to the big rig pumps at the local truck stop and put nearly 200 gallons in the tank.

Bus Air was something I was originally interested in owning being a resident of Arizona; however, there are some drawbacks which include losing a full-sized bay of storage and from what I have read a very expensive system to repair and/or replace. When driving my coach with the 30,000 BTU driver's air (comes from dash and driven by the DD60) I get ice cold air (it will freeze the coils at low fan speeds). I can also run (2) of the (3) 15,000 BTU cruise-airs (galley and bedroom) and keep the coach very comfortable even at 115 degrees outside. Starting the generator gives me the salon cruise-air but this is right above the dash-air and not really needed. Parked outside of my home in 115 degree heat while loading or unloading the bus following heat-soak using only the (3) cruise-airs is challenging to keep it comfortable in the heat of the day. I can keep it tolerable (below 85 degrees) but when your cruise-air condensers are located in the front of the bus on the underneath side there is only so much air circulation available particularly when I have the generator running with its radiator ejecting heat in the same zone of the bus underbelly. I don't plan on camping in 115, only driving through it. Bus Air would be the only A/C needed while driving but it will not help when parked in 115 unless the DD60 motor is running; therefore, I am fine with my cruise-airs and dash-air while running down the hot highway. I am not sure roof-airs sitting in 115 would be a lot better but they do have access to more open air (especially if there is a breeze) sitting up high even though they are probably getting heat soaked by the ambient heat and direct sun exposure.

Ask questions, have a qualified person/shop complete a thorough Pre-Purchase Inspection (PPI), and take your time to find the right coach. The purchase of a motor coach includes aspects of buying a luxury home and a luxury car rolled in with an onboard AC electrical generation facility, DC electrical storage with AC conversion, freshwater distribution system, and wastewater storage. These are complex vehicles. Run away from anything that looks like it has been "hacked" by an unqualified DIY'er. Also look for detailed records. I have every owner's manual, every owner-furnished purchase document, and every maintenance record for my 20 year old coach. When you are sitting in your coach the first weekend and you are trying to figure out how something operates, don't underestimate the value of documentation. When watching the TV show Airplane Repo you learn to appreciate the effort they go through to find the logs and documentation because the value of an aircraft is sometimes reduced in half without the logs and documentation. While the value of a coach doesn't seem to be affected by the existence or lack of documentation as a future owner it can make the difference between quickly learning the coach's operations and struggling through a long learning curve.

[B&RBergstrom]

Thanks for the info

[B&RBergstrom]

Thank you that was to be one of our questions!

[B&RBergstrom]

You have certainly given us a lot of answers to questions I'm not sure I would of thought of.

[B&RBergstrom]

Will be better prepared with questions soon. We enjoy dry camping so I'm looking for info on batteries and generator
Tank sizes and I actually saw a Prevost with propane as well as electric cook top.. Only one though .. Can it be added?
Slide vs non slide .. So many thoughts and questions..this will be our full time home so storage and closet space is important as well as under carrage space
thank you again for all the info

[Gil_J]

Matthew gave you some great information.

Some of us don't mind SOME orphaned coaches. It really comes down to how extensive their proprietary systems are and the support network that may still exist.. Everything else can be serviced by any qualified technician. Personally, I've only owned orphans, 2006 Beaver Contessa 42 after Beaver was acquired by Monaco and not supported by Monaco, a 99 Country Coach Prevost conversion after the original CC was sold off, and now a 2003 Hoffman Prevost H-3 conversion with nothing in the way of proprietary systems. BTW, because these coaches are orphans you can often get a better buy.

Some will only focus on conversions from converters still in business. There's certainly nothing wrong with that. It's a personal choice. It does limit what you are going to look at and possibly features you really like. Take Royale, as an example. They were known for their wood grain interiors while almost all other conversions of the time used laminates. Or Country Coach, they had their own "right sized" bus air that didn't take up any bay space, didn't weigh 750 pounds or require 37HP to operate. My recommendation is to look at all of the conversions and see what conversions stand out in meeting your needs.

All XL model slides will be after market. Everyone I've looked at appeared to be well engineered. The biggest caution on XL models with slides is weight. One converter installed the generator in the engine bay likely to overcome front axle weight issues. They did the same thing in a MCI J4500 they convertered, so maybe they had another reason. What every the reason, I can't imagine having the generator in the engine bay.

[B&RBergstrom]

Thanks Gil I have seen some of the orphan coaches not really sure who is still operating. Really liked a Vision was set up electricity and propane.. i like the Vision,Country Coach I have seen went to Tampa last year that helped some just trying to absorb as much as I can

[Matt_in_AZ]

@Gil - I hope that you and other POGers did not take offense to the use of the word "orphaned" in the context of coaches which have survived the death of their "parent" converters. I have seen that term used frequently throughout these forums and endeavored to use similar vernacular.

Gil brings up good points. If you search for any length of time on this forum you will find that he is one of the many members here that is very mechanically inclined and capable of self-performing a great deal of work on his coach. I include myself in that same category. Once an owner learns his/her coach and assuming he/she has the aptitude/ability to maintain, upgrade, or otherwise turn a wrench on his/her coach the importance of the factory being in business today is less important. Keep in mind that there are plenty of owners who rely heavily on the factory or other authorized service facility to take care of even basic items like changing bulbs. Only you can decide in which category you belong. You should also plan to buy a set of tools to leave in the bus to take care of all the little items that need to be adjusted while enjoying the use of your coach. Like a permanent home, these require regular maintenance and upkeep.

I have only seen one coach (a Vision being sold over in CA) which has propane on board. Unless you really feel the need to utilize a gas cooktop in lieu of an electric cooktop I would steer clear of propane. I have seen what a propane explosion looks like and it isn't pretty. However, it is a staple for most RVs and the risk of a problem is statistically insignificant. I wouldn't want to lose the bin space or have to deal with filling propane. If you are a gourmet chef who needs propane I would suggest you could probably have it added to almost any coach you like because finding one with it included would be like finding the proverbial needle in a haystack.

Ask more questions...

[Gil_J]

Matt, no offense taken.

My recommendation to prospective buyers when it comes to orphans is don't close the door on these coaches until you've looked at them. Some orphans have a better support network than some of the coaches from production companies. Furthermore, the owners of some orphan conversion companies are still in business today as service companies. Although some might disagree, some orphan coaches are easier to maintain than some production company conversions because the orphan company provided detailed documentation. It may be hard to believe, but at least one converter doesn't even provide fuse and circuit breaker identification or they didn't in their 2006 models.

I've seen 3 Visions. All three were converted entertainer chassis that are 3-4" taller than motorhome chassis. Just another tidbit on the different XL models that use to be available. The ones I looked at seem well done with what little time I spent in them.

There was a time when propane was installed in conversions as a way to meet electrical code requirements, not because the buyers wanted propane. There was a time when Oregon didn't make any electrical distinctions between a motorhome and a mobile home. One of there requirements was to energize all electrical systems to make sure the commercial power feed could handle the load. There were two ways converters got around this requirement. One way was to use a propane cooktop and hot water heater. The other way was to install a second shore power feed. FWIW, I've only seen a propane cooktop in one post 2010 conversion and that was at the customer's request. It can certainly be done and it wouldn't be that hard to install a compliant system, if you can't live without gas cooking. A better idea may be to install an outdoor gourmet kitchen so you will quickly meet your neighbors at dinner time.

[B&RBergstrom]

Great info Matt,Between you and Gil learning and thinking about options.

[B&RBergstrom]

Gil,
Thanks for all the info. you and Matt are so helpful. Like the idea of outdoor kitchen.You have both given me a class in Coaches. The only reason for Propane would be for dry camping.. I was thinking it would extend the time we could be off grid..would still want to run the Coach a 20kw should handle everything right?
Thinking about portable solar charging for batteries as well or would that even be necessary. We will mainly be west of the Mississippi and in dryer climates.Cool Summer's no humidity. Southwest /California winter.
The Vision I saw on line was very nice.. We saw a Newell went to see it .. Only to find it in deplorable condition..
Tends to make me feel unsure of dealing with some. Seems I have a lot to learn.

[Gil_J]

Propane would be good for extending your dry camping time IF you don't want to run your generator. Personally, I would run the generator at cooking times to support the stove and oven while charging the batteries.

Prevost conversion generators all exceed the power we get from our 50A shore power connection. 50A 120/240 is 12.5Kw.

[Matt_in_AZ]

The one bit of advice I have heard over and over again from Prevost owners, dealers, and mechanics regarding the generators is to "Run them, run them, and run them." I was actually worried about my 20 year old generator when I thought the hours were a mere 364 hours and then I found the documentation showing the hour meter had been replaced at 2,514 hours (for a total of nearly 2,900 hours). There is a reason mission-critical generators at data centers, call centers, and hospitals are set to run on a regular maintenance cycle (e.g. weekly) to ensure they will be there for you when you need them most. I have heard of well-maintained generators like those in our Prevost lasting 30,000+ hours. In my first days of ownership I admit I was "frugal" with running mine, but realized in short time that the draw on the diesel is measured in fractions of a gallon per hour under average load. Plus the noise abatement in the bay makes it very difficult to hear one running. My coach has airbags under the generator frame. I learned after my first trip that I needed to use the on-board air hose to fill them to the proper PSI in order to absorb vibration. What a difference a few PSI of air makes. As a side note, did you know that underneath the driver in the side exterior compartment there will typically be an air hose and a quick connect coupling for filling your tires? There is a second connection on mine on the passenger side engine bay compartment too. I didn't know this until after I owned mine. Lots of "Easter eggs" to find.

Many converters have installed an auto-start system on the generator. Mine is labeled "Auto-Gen Enable" on the dash panel and bedroom electrical panel to allow the generator to automatically start and shut down to maintain the batteries while dry camping and using the house power. You get up and go hiking in the morning while it is off and when the A/C cycling on/off throughout the day draws down the batteries to a preset level, the inverters (measuring the house batteries) send a signal to the generator auto start system to indicate it should automatically start and run (until the batteries are charged to a preset level). You may return later and not even realize the generator was working in your absence. The point is - it is "hands free" and "worry free". Some coaches I looked at did not have this feature. I am glad mine does. This is a perfect example of what I consider a "must have" feature with my Prevost mission that I never knew to look for until someone pointed it out.

A 20kW generator produces 167 Amps of electricity at 120V. There are some older homes with a mere 100 Amp service feeding them (most today have 200 Amps minimum). That should put it in perspective. Fire up everything on the bus including your leaf blower connected to the outside convenience receptacle and you should still have headroom on power. Just don't run the leaf blower next to me at 6:00AM.

I thought about solar and still continue to do so on occasion (for full disclosure my other vehicle is an electric car). If you think about the average output of a commercial solar panel being about 10-12 watts per square feet (good rule of thumb) and a 45' Prevost having 382.5 square feet of roof (ignoring all of the roof penetrations, dish, antenna, horns, etc.) you may be able to generate a theoretical maximum output of about 4,500-4,600 Watts of power during mid-day sun (or did you pick that nice spot under the shade trees?). In reality you might have room for about 2,000-2,500 Watts of generation from the RV focused solar panels during six to eight hours of the day. If you were dry camping in an area not requiring your A/C (in cooling or heat pump mode) to be ran and you wanted to run silent you could probably keep the batteries topped off enough to run your refrigerator, some interior lighting (better upgrade to LED pucks) and your LED TV long enough to watch Jimmy Fallon at night. Or you could just run your generator and buy several years worth of fuel for what the solar system might cost you. In other words, it doesn't make financial sense - yet.

You should be thinking about your freshwater consumption and waste water storage being the limiting factor rather than electricity. My coach was customized with an added 90 gallon freshwater tank giving me a total of 218 gallons of water which lasts me personally a long time. A family of four like mine with kids who don't know how to take a short shower can consume water at a scary fast rate. Don't forget that the dishwasher and clothes washer are both water hogs too.

All good questions. By the way - do you have a first name to call you by other than your avatar?

[B&RBergstrom]

Yes I'm Rita.
My husband has felt all along that the Generator should run us with no problem. Had a sales person tell us we couldn't .
I have been looking at tank sizes. Dishwasher not an issue,not something I need in a coach. Washer and dryer definitely. Full loads only. Short showers easy.Bottled water too.
I have noticed tank sizes vary. Hope to find a large fresh water tank or be able to customize
I notice your coach is a 1997 Marathon, so no slides? I seem to have to get into 2000-up to find single or double slides.
We are not sure we need them.Would depend on set up inside of Coach.
Would def switch to LEDs have read this can be an expensive under taking... But worth the cost I think.
I see what your saying as far as Solar.
Thanks Rita

[Matt_in_AZ]

Hello Rita,

Our coach had a washer and dryer in it when the original owner purchased it; however, one of the post-purchase/pre-delivery requests was to remove it. At first I found this to be a surprise. I know mine is pre-plumbed with hot/cold water, electricity, and vent making it an easy item to add. My wife and I have put 12,000 miles on our coach in just the first few months of ownership and are still undecided about the need for a washer/dryer. I know several owners who have said they don't use their washer/dryer for the reasons below:

1) Very small size of load requiring 4-5 small loads to equate to a normal washer/dryer capacity
2) Uses a great deal of water
3) Uses a great deal of time/electricity to dry
4) The combination units are neither a good washer or good dryer (too many compromises)

I know someone who managed one of the largest service centers for motor coaches in the western states and he told that his team pulled them out of coaches far more than he installed new ones.

If you are at an RV park with full hook-ups you probably don't mind the water and/or electrical use, but the value of your time is worth consideration.

In our trips thus far staying at RV parks we have taken all of our laundry for the week to the laundry room when none of the washers/dryers were in use and did all of our laundry in one wash and dry cycle (two hours maximum).

On the other hand my kids were soaked and sand covered from a stop at a beach one afternoon and we would have liked the opportunity to toss swimming suits in the washer/dryer just for the convenience of not having wet/sandy clothes floating around the coach (sand gets everywhere).

There is better than a 30% probability that I will add one in the spot designated for a washer/dryer because of the ease of installation, but it will be for those times when a small load of laundry must be done rather than relying on it for bulk laundry.

Slides are polarizing. Some feel they are must haves. Others wouldn't want them for any amount of money. My price point didn't include slides so it wasn't an option. My local motor coach service center had one in the shop in June with the slide removed. It was a non-Prevost slide. It had been in the shop for 6 months being repaired ($$$). They told me that in the best cases slides are a convenience worthy of the purchase for many owners' missions but require routine maintenance. In the worst cases they can be the source of expensive repairs. At the end of the conversation I was told that only the Prevost factory slides or the Valid brand of third party slides should be considered as they have the best track record. As you will learn, several third party vendors were adding slides of varying levels of quality. The popularity of slides led Prevost to eventually introduce factory slides but they took time to integrate them into the design of the coaches to optimize functionality and reliability.

Parked long-term in any location the slides make the interior much larger. If you travel across land more than you stop like we do the slides aren't really a factor in our enjoyment. Make sure you see a coach with the slides retracted to see how much room is available to move about the coach when driving down the highway. Some require a degree of gymnastics ability to move around while traveling. Just food for thought.

[B&RBergstrom]

Matt,
Thanks for all the good info. Do you have experience with Marathons Certified Used Coaches?
You mentioned to make sure we get a PPI.I know this is an inspection but not familiar with aspects of this inspection.
And should I have Marathon do it. Or say I find one at another converter or through a personal transaction. Would any Prevost sales/service/Converter be able to do inspection?
Thanks Rita

[Gil_J]

Rita,

If you are buying a "certified" Marathon I assume you are buying or considering a coach being sold by Marathon. If you are buying from Marathon, or a Liberty fron Liberty, or a Millennium from Millennium I would expect them to have fully inspected the coach and provide a warranty.

Prevost would be the best choice for a chassis and drive train inspections. Don't expect a Prevost facility to understand the converter systems.

Most conversion focused service centers can inspect the converter systems. There are also independents that can inspect the systems. There are even some that will provide codriver and training on your initial delivery. If the coach is in FL, I know a guy ;-)

Never have the seller do the inspection. Also, like a home inspection, don't expect an in depth inspection. It would take days to fully inspect a coach. Your goal should be to inspect the most likely trouble areas and the operational state of all systems.

[B&RBergstrom]

Gil,
Thank you. One thing we do not want to do is miss the important things we would need to have checked out.
I see some Coaches with baseboard heat. Know nothing about how it functions. Is it something to stay away from?
Thanks Gil

[Gil_J]

Heating sources include heat pumps, heat strips, baseboard heat and Webasto/Aqua-Hot. Heat strips and baseboard heat are resistive heating sources and tend to use a good amount of power. Baseboard and Webasto/Aqua-Hot heat are both located where heat should be, at the floor. Heat pumps are temperature limited. Below 25-30 degrees they don't produce much heat, below that they don't work.

There's nothing wrong with any of these sources. Almost all, if not all, have Webasto/Aqua-Hot and one other heating source. Unless it's just a chill I'm getting rid of I use the Webasto/Aqua-Hot.

[TG Transport]

We love our Marathon. I've owned it since 2007 and would buy another. Marathon tech support has been outstanding.

[B&RBergstrom]

From everything I can find The Marathon company stands out.. Now to find the one that's right for us!