Rebuilt or new? Another story!

[Grizz]

Hope you’re not sick of my stories!

In the late 90s just before buying my first Prevost a 1996 Marathon XLV with Grizzly bears painted on two sides and the rear named Grizz (that’s where I got the nickname Grizz) I owned a Wanderlodge! It was my third Wanderlodge and it was mint – a 1988 FC35, black and silver with a turbo 3208 CAT. It had the typical problems with the air suspension level controllers and the screwed up front end geometry. (Every Wanderlodge I’ve known pulled right and there’s not enough caster adjustment to stop it.) Anyway the coach was perfect from bottom to top, front to rear, and in and out! So, you might ask where is this story going!

I was in an International truck dealer service department in Tucson, having a regular maintenance service performed when the technician told me the engine wasn’t running properly. He said it needed injectors to make it run better and give me better mileage. Mind you this is a non-computerized engine. Being a guy who likes things to be perfect and doesn’t mind spending money to get there, I said go ahead and install them. They gave me a quote for the job using CAT OEM rebuilt injectors. I don’t like rebuilt parts, but they assured me I have nothing to worry about as they were Caterpillar OEM rebuilt parts carrying the same warranty as brand new.

When I first drove the coach after the repair I noticed black smoke out the exhaust pipe every time I pressed on the throttle. After several attempts by the International dealer to correct the problem, I took the coach to the CAT authorized dealer. The CAT service department spent several days screwing around with it and said I needed a new injection pump for several thousand dollars. (It was fine before the injector job.) After installing the new injector pump the same problem existed. Mind you, all this time I was trying to tell them the problem had to be defective rebuilt injectors. I wanted them to remove and test them, but they claimed CAT wouldn’t pay for that operation.

Finally, I told them I would pay to remove and test the injectors. They did and I was correct. Out of the eight rebuilt injectors five of them did not pass the spray test. At that point I asked for and agreed to pay for eight brand new injectors, but they were to test them before installation. They agreed and three of the new injectors failed the test. After two weeks in the shop, a new injector pump and eight good injectors, I left with a proper running engine.

Okay, so what would have happened if at the time I believed in fuel additives? Well for one thing if additives were good back then, I’d have saved an awful lot of time and money. But, take additives out of the story and what’s left is; rebuilt vs. new! In my opinion and based on my experience with rebuilt mechanical parts as an auto dealer service manager, I say stick with new regardless of the warranty. I’d rather pay a little more up front than have to do the job twice because of a failure. Further, when replacing parts that are critical to performance like fuel injectors, even if they are new bench test them first.

[travelite]

Hi Grizz,

I love hearing about your history and experiences. As you know, Wanderlodges are near and dear to my heart. If the factory were still around no doubt I'd still be driving one; alas, I grew tired of sourcing and sometimes manufacturing my own parts. My previous coach was a 2002 single slide LXi. In 10 years of ownership and well over 100,000 miles the coach never let me down. It had a rather High School shop class quality to its build structure, but what it didn't win in finesse it won in character. I'll forever miss those horns, the blue electroluminescent dash, and its quirky road manners. (Mine never solely pulled to the right... it mostly pulled to the left, then to the right, then to the left...). The Ridewell suspension in my 2002 remained virtually unchanged since 1982. Same limited suspension travel, same bump steer, same panhard rods. Very endearing. Sometimes its true that you don't know what you've got till its gone. I still think about buying another. :) Oh, to get back on track with your topic. I wholeheartedly agree. New over rebuilt if possible. My other maxim is "keep it as original as you can". :)

[Gil_J]

Grizz,

In your case, it doesn't look like new was much better. 3 of 8 new ones were DOA! Clearly, that's unacceptable.

I tend to be in the new over rebuilt for most parts. Some new parts are simply way too expensive when compared to their rebuilt brothers. In some cases, there's not much to rebuild when compared to the complete item. Take the engine mounted compressor as one example. A rebuilt should be substantially less expensive.

It seems like everything is either rebuilt, a certified repair, or disposable. Most repairs done under warranty will be done with rebuilt parts. My last smart phone died within the first month of use. Even then I was given a certified used replacement. BTW, I wasn't to pleased not getting a new replacement when the failure was almost immediate.

BTW, wouldn't it be great if you could get core credit when buying new? I could never figure out why this wasn't the normal practice for manufacturers that also did rebuilds.

[Grizz]

David:

When I was service manager at Miami Lincoln Mercury (early 70s) we were a RV dealer so I got to a lot of RV shows. It was love at first sight when I saw a new Wanderlodge, but back then I couldn’t afford one.

When I did finally get into a Wanderlodge it was a 1984 PT40 (biggest problem was turning radius) then came a brand new 1990 WB40 that would downshift one gear whenever the cruise control was engaged. DD and Wanderlodge couldn’t find the problem. Then I bought the 1988 FC 35, that I loved but traded for the 1996 Marathon.

I got out of RVing after the Marathon for a while, but then bought another 1990 WB 40, figuring that Wanderlodge and DD surely must nave gotten that problem under control by now. Not so, that one did the same thing with the cruise control. I sold it and bought a 1999 Vantare H3-45 2S that I kept for about four months. It had more problems than a barroom looser, mostly I think from lack of owner care!

So it seems, all high line coaches have their share of problems. When you pack an entire city utility support package into a compact luxury living space, it’s inevitable. It’s those converters that have foresight and the experience it takes to plan ahead who get it right and make ownership completely pleasurable. Well, as pleasurable as possible! My current Marathon is just about as perfect as one could expect, but I’ll probably get bored with it.

In between Prevost and Wanderlodges, there were many other RVs - all classes big and small. They too have their problems emanating from poor design to just plain lousy workmanship.

[Grizz]

Gil

Yes, some of the new injectors did not pass the spray test, but at least they were tested before installation. There are too many parts made in foreign countries for economic reasons, and it seems to me they never scrap a defective unit. They may test them to keep their customer happy, but the bad ones go in the 'good' pile anyway.

for a while in my life I gave up trying to 'keep it original' when it came to my vehicles. Having worked in new car dealer service departments the first half of my working years, I didn't know any better. After leaving that profession I soon realized why my service customers loved me. The quality of service I received as a customer in new car dealership service departments was something nobody as a customer should ever have to endure. So I moved on to independent shops unless the vehicle was under warranty, and recently gave up on the warranty and paid to have my E-150 repaired.

i agree with your comment that a core credit should be available when purchasing a new component, but no one ever accused auto manufacturers or dealers of thinking about customers first. Oh well, such is life, but we can pay them back a bit by where we make our future purchases.

[travelite]

Fascinated with your Wanderlodge history Grizz. It's common to see folks migrate to later and later birds, but rare to see someone go backwards like you did from a 1990WB to an FC, but then I see back to another 1990WB. Most of us in the Bird world have had one, some had two, but to own four of them is very, very rare. You certainly have a wealth of experience that is the envy of the Wanderlodge world. Wanderlodge evolved very slowly and were extremely conservative in their model roll-outs. This was true for 43 years, then they made the M380 and the M450 which were radical departures. These products, with emphasis on the M450, pretty much killed the company!

I don't know if Ben Cummings was around to build your 1999 Vantare - seems it took a Navy Nuclear Engineer to build in quality.

Core charges on new... ranks right up there with prepaid interest. Yet another beancounter invention designed to separate the consumer from his money.

[Grizz]

LOL

I remember well the transition at Wanderlodge / Blue Bird. When I purchased the first 1990 WB 40 brand new, there was new management there. (Remember what I'm about to say is strictly my own opinion and could of course be an inaccurate description.) A self-centered guy by the name of Red Chester was in charge. He (as I was told) dismissed a lot of the employees there in Fort Valley, a very small community that depended on Blue Bird for survival. Well, not understanding what they were doing to their own future, they went on a crusade to 'show the management' they were unhappy that their neighbor lost a job. The quality went down hill rapidly as did the sales.

At the time Buddy Gregg was the biggest Wanderlodge dealer and that's where I bought the 84 and traded it for the new 90. The 90 had all kinds of problems including the one I mentioned about the transmission downshifting one gear whenever the cruise control was engaged. It also had plumbing leaks that destroyed the grey oak parquet flooring in the galley. Along with my list I drove back to Ft Valley for warranty service. After a week of non-repairs, including replacing only the damaged pieces of oak flooring that didn't match the original in color and not being able to correct the transmission/cruise control problem Mr. Chester invited me to leave stating they would do no more for me. I owned the coach and had to live with it the way it was (defects and all). I sued Wanderlodge and won. It took two years and they bought the coach back including the price of the trade and interest on the money. Shortly thereafter, Red Chester was gone and Blue Bird was sold. But, I did like Wanderlodge and knew they were rock solid. I too loved the electroluminescent dash and solid steel body. So after a while I bought others. The 88 FC was awesome. I was alone and it fit perfectly - it had a standard size side bed. A kind of rare configuration. I replaced all the soft goods including the carpeting and installed marble in the galley and bathroom. I loved that Wanderlodge, but make the mistake of stopping in San Antonio Florida on the way back to Tucson. There it was "The Grizz", a 1996 XLV in blue and shinny stainless with Grizzly bears on the sides and back. I was in love and the Wanderlodge never left that parking lot. LOL

The second 90 came long after selling the Grizz, and it was just as bad as the first. There have been no less than 8 RVs since the Grizz and here I am back in a Marathon Prevost. On my, I'm in love again (for now)! :-)

Addition:

I'm not sure the order of events after BB was sold the first time, but I do remember going to the 'Rally in the Valley' with the second 1990 and listening to the CEO or GM in charge speaking about the changes they were going to make to Wanderlodge. They had a first-off new coach (the M maybe) on display. When the big guy got off the stage strutting his stuff, I approached him and told he he really didn't have a clue, that they would destroy the product with the proposed changes. Of course that was very rude of my (so my other half told me at the time), but darn if the guy wasn't wrong and the company went the way of the DoDo. "One wrong move and your dead"!

[travelite]

I think that poor company has been sued more than R.J.Reynolds, and they're still in lawsuits over the M450's. Only 58 built including 2 prototypes, 3 maybe 4 crashes, one fatality. Recently there was another award where the original buyer won and was paid his original purchase price plus legal costs. You know that Blue Bird recently went public. They were owned by Cerberus and recently Cerberus took them public in a blank-check-ipo.

I often think of buying another, and I know the 1988 FC is the one to get, trouble is if the engine isn't in the back to me it's not a bus! LOL! I'd like to have something short for local and state campgrounds here and around NC and an '88FC, all steel, no slides, tough as a tank, pulls to the right, would be perfect. But, it's gotta be a turbo with a swing radiator.

My introduction to the brand was at the tender age of 17 when my friend's dad bought a new FC back in the late 70's. I remember that bus well. It glistened in it's two tone paint with it's polished aluminum rub rails, aluminum wheels, and Michelin tires. Always clean and polished and formidable parked in that driveway. Proudly on display. Okay, I need to step away for a moment to check the classifieds! :)

[Grizz]

That darned swing radiator was a pain for servicing the engine and then trying to keep the grease out of the cabin! Then there's all that engine heat and noise up front! It was uncomfortable to drive in warmer climates, but oh so nice when it was very cold out. :-)

Ya just had to love it for what it is! Big, bulky, noisy and underpowered, but it was the 57 Chevy of RVs.

[Gil_J]

Core charges on new... ranks right up there with prepaid interest. Yet another beancounter invention designed to separate the consumer from his money.

I wasn't clear. I wasn't suggesting they charge core when buying new. I was trying to say when buying new we should be offered a core credit. A net savings for new parts buyers and a supply of repairable parts for the rebuilder.

[travelite]

Sorry Gil, I was the one not being clear. I should have said, "No core credit on new". :)