Odor while underway

[Reagan Sirmons]

I want to go back to the drawing board on this one.
I have replaced all line filters designed to keep the odor within the gray area, etc. I replaced one under the kitchen sink, hall sink and bathroom sink. Everything is fine until we have to depart our dry camping area at the football games where there are no dump stations. Once the movement action of the coach begins, the odor becomes unbearable. It appears to be coming from behind the commode..... strange as that sounds... I also left the windows shut, etc to keep any suction draft at a minimum.

Upon returning to the warehouse, I drained and washed out the black tank before draining the gray. The odor emanating from the back of the commode and the bathroom basically stopped. Is it possible that a seal has cracked on the base of the commode? If so, why doesn't it smell while stopped at the camp grounds?

Regardless of how great these coach's are... this is an issue... help is needed from the troops.. my eyes can't take it.
Very best,
Pres

[JIM KELLER]

Reagan, I have been thinking about this issue for a few days. I wouldn't think the toilet ring is where the smell is coming from. The toilet is set into a wax ring just like a house toilet. I would think if the wax ring was compromised you would have water on the floor. If the smell is coming from the grey tank you would smell the odor more when you open the cabinets below the sinks. I am not positive but I think there must be another grey trap somewhere behind the washer/dryer. The toilet has no vent inside the Bus. If it holds water I don't know how any odor could get past the water. Sorry to be rambling but thinking out loud. Other ideas : Something obstructing the roof vents ? Something has caused the bathroom exhaust vent fan to turn backwards ? A newly replaced vent on the plumbing is defective ? An exhaust roof vent is being turned on without a window open causing a vacuum ?

Let me know. Anyone else got an idea to help out our fellow Pogger ?

[JIM KELLER]

Had another idea on this one. What about putting something in the suspected tank, grey or black, with a distinctive smell. Simple green, a perfume, etc. Wait awhile so the smell of the product is no longer detected in the Bus then turn on both roof exhaust fans and try to determine the origin of the smell. Keep all windows shut and block the bathroom exhaust vent.

[Gil_J]

I wouldn't rule out the wax ring. If the toilet is holding water, there are few other sources. Although you might think a failing wax ring would result in waste water on the floor, that's not necessarily the case. The toilet discharge drops fairly straight into black tank. So, waste water will only show if the tank is full. The reason the smell is bad after driving is because the bad stuff is churning and due to possible pressure on the stink pipe.

Change the wax ring; it's easy. Get the premium thicker wax ring.

[Joe Camper]

I love the perfume idea very clever and Im with Gill if its smelling around the toilet pull it and look.

I cant help being reminded of the electronic odor control I had on my XL. That's the ticket Kill it electrocute the bacteria with a small controlled current into the 2 waste tanks. Never spend another dime or catch a whiff of anything ever again.

What U did not mention doing is that draft thingy U attach to the vent stack. I solved 2 very bad smell problems on 2 early 90s CC xls with it.

[cthalfman]

I had a similar experience with the wax ring. The odor from the black water tank was present when we ran the bathroom vent fan. Basically it was creating a vacuum of the odor out of the black water tank from around the wax ring. Upon replacing the ring this problem went away. It was also prevalent under way if the black water tank was anything but empty.

I have also found that few of us (unless dry camping for extended periods of time) ever get the "break down" effect of enzyme additives to our black water tanks which take several days to work effectively. I have switched to adding about 15 ounces of clorox gel bleach before using the black water system. This has virtually eliminated any odor under any circumstance on the bus.

I might however be hesitant to use this method with metal/stainless black water tanks. Not sure if straight bleach would be corrosive to the stainless used in black water tanks?

[Reagan Sirmons]

Thanks for the input... I will move forward and will cover all of the above.
Pres

[Reagan Sirmons]

Jim...Gil...Joe...& Chris:
Just went over to the coach and sniff tested everything for no odors before I started. I then flushed the Toilet with the water off while pouring a generous portion of liquid Lysol deep down the toilet neck...I then flushed with the water on to allow filling of the toilet bowl....and no leaks. I sniff tested again...no odor from anywhere particularly from the back of the toilet. Then, I turned on the attic fans and waited only 30 seconds....here it came from the back of the toilette... Lysol odor... quite strong and it got stronger as it went along. Therefore, since Gil said it was easy... I will place a call to Microflush to get the plastic ring or get instructions from them as to the appropriate dimensions or will acquire the ring at a pluming outlet.... the thick plastic ring as my mentors have recommended ... I plan to get removal instructions from Microflush as well... I have a schematic.
Unless this thing ends up being only short of the theory of relativity, I think this is the culprit.
Very best and thanks to all...
Pres

[Gil_J]

Reagan,

Don't over think this job.

Turn off the water, disconnect water line, flush, disconnect power, remove floor bolts, remove toilet, clean off old ring from toilet and floor flange, replace wax ring and reverse the procedure. Make sure you have a container to set the toilet in as it will still have water in it.

Here's the most common wax rings, http://www.oatey.com/products/bowl-setting-wax-gaskets-and-bolts/wax-bowl-ring-with-flange. I recommend either of the two on the right on this page.

While the toilet is out you should check the flush mechanism.

One hour tops for this job, two f you milk it,

[JIM KELLER]

Reagan, Gil is right on target with his step by step. Pay close attention to his sentence " While the toilet is out you should check the flush mechanism. " We have seen rod and cam rotator problems. The small nut can work it's way off the threads and actually fall on the floor under the toilet. While the toilet is out turn it upside down and examine the mechanism.

[Mikee]

IS the washer and dryer behind the bathroom by any chance? If so it is possible the trap is dry if it has not been used for a period of time.

Mikee

[Reagan Sirmons]

O K Gang... I replaced the wax ring and it was not that difficult a job in keeping with Gil's comments. I followed his directions to the letter.
When I removed the offending toilet, the wax ring of course came apart and I could not determine if, indeed, it had a passageway through which an odor could have escaped. It did not look good and was certainly very worn. It could have atrophied and withdrawn from its seal as it dried through time. I cleaned the entire floor area and prepared the receiving flange for the positioning of the new ring with the help of a friend. My conclusion is that I am very hopeful this is the issue. I am not totally certain without reservation that it is. I now understand that the throat of the wax ring fits down into the opening of the black tank and the ring seals against the bottom of the toilet. I used the thicker ring and short of there being some type of crack in the system, there is no way for the odor to come into the cabin. I plan to check the vent to be certain it is clear... I tried the smell test after installation and certainly the issue was much, much better... but with having the opening open for a time period, it was not as conclusive as I would have hoped.
The true test comes this week end... If the odor is still present, I will assume I have installed a defective vent...
Thanks to all... I will report back in this Monday...

[Grizz]

If you don't mind my 2-cents worth on the stinky subject! If you have a washing machine that hasn't been used for a while - use it. The p-trap in the drain pipe dries out and the tank fumes will enter the coach. It only happens while driving because there is enough pressure differential between the tank roof vent and the open washer drain pipe when the vehicle is in motion.

Also keep in mind that the grey water in the shower drain can smell worse than the black tank if not flushed out for a few days. I always add a little chlorine down the shower drain and/or flush it with water before moving from storage.

Sorry, I didn't see Mikee's post before writing this! Sorry Mikee!

[JIM KELLER]

Good job Reagan. We will be waiting for your update.

[Mikee]

If your washer dryer happens to back up to the bathroom, you might want to run the washer to bee sure the trap has water in it. If the trap gets dry it will let odors in.
Mikee

[Mikee]

Grizz, no problem. No apology needed.
Sorry for the second post on this subject. I did not go to page 2 and thought my first one did not make it.

Mikee

[Grizz]

Mikee:

That's how I got fooled into not seeing your first post. :-)

[Reagan Sirmons]

A report to the troops... This is a good report overall...
After changing out all pipe-installed cap filters on the vents and having particularly replaced the vent under the bathroom sink with a $30 filter designed to limit odor...and after replacing the wax ring under the toilet... we dry camped at the UT ball game and thereafter began the ride home. After about 30 miles, we could smell the odor...no getting around it. I stopped the coach in a parking lot and found that to my delight...the previous very, very foul odor from the toilet was non existent...success on that front and a big, defimite success it is!!! With that said, I opened the doors under the bathroom sink (where the expensive filter resides) and it had the modest emitting odor....much less than before to be certain. I closed the door and turned on the vent fan in the bathroom...and closed the bathroom door while underway... it cleared the offending smell....and it stayed that way all the way home...... we are really close on this one...
To the suggestions: We have used the dishwasher but have not used the washing machine for two months... We will do so to clear that trap..
I am now convinced that I had a double whammy...the wax ring on the toilet was atrophied (and it was the greatest offender, trust me) ...and the vent in the bathroom needed a proper air filter. It is entirely possible that the washing machine trap could be the remaining culprit because it shares the same side wall as the vent in the bathroom.. nonetheless, I am preparing to replace the filter on the bathroom vent again in case the new filter is defective...as was suggested it could be....
We are getting there and thanks to all who have contributed... I now know that in my case, the wax ring was the culprit for at least 80% /90% of the odor... As Gil also said, it was not a difficult task to change out the ring... as long as you can get into the space and upon reinstallation, hold the toilet level above the target intake pipe for the black tank as you position the toilet for re-installation with the wax ring attached to its bottom. It weighs more than you think but is manageable....probably about 35 to 40 pounds... just awkward to maneuver...

Thanks again to everyone... I will keep you posted.
Pres

[Grizz]

Thanks for the update! Too often the original poster fails to let the group know if a suggestion solved the problem. We all benefit when the cause of the problem as well as the results of a fix are made known.

[Gil_J]

Great news Reagan! The shitty smell is gone and you only have, what you describe to be, a bit of grey water tank smell. Negative pressure in the coach will cause the under sink vent traps to open. You really shouldn't have negative pressure in the coach. The other thing that will open the these vent traps is positive pressure in the gray tank. This could happen if the roof vents are restricted or high is being directed down these pipes. That shouldn't happen with the way the roof vent caps are designed. You can uncap them before your next outing make sure they are clear to the tank. Leave them off and see how the ride home is after the next game.

If you never use your washing machine, cap the drain pipe. Depending on how your drain pipe is configured this can be as easy as installing a cork or rubber plug. Make sure you turn off the water to the washer and unplug it. This is just to be sure no one turns it on. You will otherwise find yourself having to periodically fill the P trap with water.

[Reagan Sirmons]

Gil,
Thank you for all of the input... I believe we are getting on top of it... We do use the washing machine periodically ...so we ran it yesterday and will run the dishwasher as well... while sitting in the warehouse. I have learned a lot about these vents and will be certain they are clear... This coach is really super for our objectives.... great service....I do not have any issues that would not seem normal except this one threw me for a loop. I appreciate everyone's thoughts and guidance.
Pres

[travelite]

Thanks for then update Reagan. Regarding the washing machine, every three or four weeks or so I put mine on a short rinse cycle to fill the drain p-trap. If you don't want to wash a load, this method is quick and doesn't use much water.