Air Manifold

[dale farley]

I have a 5 port manifold for my air doors and water tank valves. One of the pictures shows a loop in the 1/4" line on the end of the manifold. That line is to vent air from the manifold when the valves are engaged. My problem is the vent line is continually exhausting air, so the compressor runs all the time.

My question is, "how does this work"? Do the valves exhaust each time when they switch between open and close. I assume the manifold has no moving parts to allow the exhausting? If the exhausting is internal to the air valve, does that mean that one of them may be stuck, causing the chronic exhausting? I have attached some pictures, but it was dark, so the light was very bad.

[garyde]

Hi Dale. Does it exhaust with all valves closed? Can you isolate the 5 valve action to some point where it does not vent? If not, sounds like it needs taken apart and new o rings or a new manifold.

[dale farley]

Gary, I don't know if there is anything the manifold that can cause this problem. I'm hoping someone can tell me how it is supposed to work so I know how to troubleshoot.

[Joe Camper]

Dale couple things first it should not be continually exhausting.

Second it may not be that manifold or 1 of its solenoids that's leaking although Id test them first they would be the easier fix.


The air cylinders that r hooked to the doors and the dump valves r energized 100% of the time. Either pressure to keep closed or pressure to keep open. So if when they r closed if the packing on the ram inside the cylinder is going bad it will leak past it and out the exhaust port at that manifold.

Isolate the easy stuff first and as many things as U can and hopefully it will be something more accessible than not.

Testing the door cylinders themselves will be not too hard U can pull the return a line with that component energized right there at the manifold. If U have 1 of those door cylinder packings leaking then it could get more difficult

Good luck and may the force be with U.

[Joe Camper]

Dale I would be very comfortable buying one of your buses after U were finished with it.......if I had the doe

U R very thorough.

[Gil_J]

...The air cylinders that r hooked to the doors and the dump valves r energized 100% of the time. Either pressure to keep closed or pressure to keep open. So if when they r closed if the packing on the ram inside the cylinder is going bad it will leak past it and out the exhaust port at that manifold.

Isolate the easy stuff first and as many things as U can and hopefully it will be something more accessible than not.

Testing the door cylinders themselves will be not too hard U can pull the return a line with that component energized right there at the manifold. If U have 1 of those door cylinder packings leaking then it could get more difficult
...

Ditto. This is what we talked about before. To determine how the manifold is supposed to work requires you to understand what it's controlling and how the valves move based on switch positions. Removing the sub systems and test them first.

[dale farley]

I took the manifold to a hydraulic shop today, and he told me how do a couple tests on it that will help isolate the problem, I hope. After a few hours searching, I have found the valves and coils. I am wondering if I change all 5 valves, if that would isolate things significantly.

I see that there is a significant amount of oil in the manifold and valve bodies. There was no oil filter in the air line, and I assume the oil is from the compressor. This may have caused part of the problem, but I'm not sure. I am also wondering if I need to clean the oil out of the manifold.

[Joe Camper]

U have June Air aux compressor don't U. Then the manifold is well lubed. LOL Probably didn't hurt it blow it clean best u can with air.

U mentioned hearing air escaping at a pocket door that's not going to get fixed at the manifold good luck with that one it will be fun.

[dale farley]

The one door that leaks some times is the least important to me, so if I can get the others working right, I'll put that one on the back burner.

[lbriant]

Dale,
Does this system also run off the engine air compressor and then when the engine is off it runs off the auxiliary compressor ?
Makes me wonder if you are getting oil into your main engine compressor? And then passing it through all your air lines ?
That would probably also show in any of your football air tank drains,
That would not be good ?
I am not an expert on this but I thought I read it on series 60 motors as a possible problem,

[dale farley]

Larry,

The oil is from the June Air. I think it is common that the June Air pumps a little oil in the system, and since mine did not previously have an oil separator, I may have more than normal in my lines. I have since added two new filters for water and oil.

[dale farley]

Based on my conversation with a couple technicians (including Joe) yesterday, I did a couple tests. I disconnected all my electrical from the system and put an air supply on the manifold. This caused air to come out of all the top 5 connectors (the 10 air line connections are shown in 2nd and 3rd pictures). I then plugged the bottom row of connectors and turned the air back on. A technician told me that if I had a bad cylinder at one of my doors, this setup should allow air to flow back through the other 1/4" line that is now disconnected. When I did this, I got no air returning through any of the other five lines, but the exhaust port was running full bore. That may have skewed this test.

I then connected 12v to the coils and when I got to #4 it would intermittently stop the exhaust. I don't know if that meant this was a bad valve, but I suspect that may be the case. My understanding is that one bad valve can upset the entire manifold. I am wondering at this point if my best bet is to replace all 5 valves. I can see at some point, the valves have been disassembled. I found the valves at Grainger for $133 each and on-line for $68 each. (exactly the same ARO valve)

I am not sure what the 6 adjustments (as shown in first and last picture) are on the manifold are for. Could these adjustments be part of the problem??? I hope not. I am also not sure how to accurate check each one of the valves. All I can really tell about the valves at this point, is that the coils activate when voltage is applied.

[dale farley]

This is one of the 5 valves. They are ARO 12v valves.

[jetart]

The adjustments are very likely flow controls. Those can be used to set the speed the cylinder opens or closes the door (or whatever the valve is controlling). If you mess with those just be very careful not to get smashed in a doorway by a door!! (or launched through the ceiling with a bed lift, etc....!!)

[dale farley]

Maybe I'll get Paulette to help me test them! I'll do the adjusting.

If that's all they do, then I wouldn't think I have to worry about them causing the problem I have.

[Gil_J]

Dale,

With the air solenoids removed and air supplied to the removed solenoid you should not have air exhausting with the solenoid engaged or disengaged. The only thing you should notice is the air is coming out one external supply port when open and the other external supply port when closed. So, solenoid #4 is bad in that you have air coming out the exhaust port when there isn't an air system connected to the 2 external supply ports.

I don't think that is your only problem as I recall you saying there is air coming out the manifold's exhaust port regardless of the solenoid engagement position of all solenoids. The one bad solenoid, as I recall you saying, only exhaust air in one solenoid position.

To test your air doors and other air cylinder systems is not too hard.
Set a test air supply to 35-45psi.
Supply that air to either side of the cylinder. The cylinder will move and exhaust a small amount of air out of the other supply/drain line. After the small amount of air exhaust you shouldn't have any more exit from the other supply/drain line.
Do the same on the other supply/drain/line.

If you do have a constant leak you might want to see if you can adjust the stop on that cylinder so it doesn't quite make it to full stop. I did this on my door floor slide and it completely stopped the leak I had.

Before fully assembling the manifold, adjust the regulators, as pointed out earlier, to 35psi. This is easiest to do by simply putting a short loop of hose on the 2 supply/drain fittings of the 3 solenoids not under test.

You're getting close,

[dale farley]

Gil,

I've been tied up with other things most of the day, but I did get a chance to check the cylinders late this evening. Each side worked as it should, and I didn't see any air leaking on the other side, so I am assuming the cylinders are not the problem. That leaves the valves or the manifold.

[jetart]

Hi Dale,
Depending on your budget I'd order at least one valve for $68 bucks. Can you pinpoint which valve is exhausting air all the time? Is it coming out of the exhaust port on the valve or someplace else? (use soap and look for bubbles) If you can pinpoint the leakling valve swap that one out for the new valve. Then, open up the bad valve by removing the "c" clip and see if any user serviceable "o" rings can be replaced. If that's the case you could rebuild the rest of the valves and have a spare.
Good luck - i'm curious to see how this works out.

Dan

[dale farley]

I took the unit to a shop today to have them bench test and tell me if there was a problem with the manifold itself. They said just swap out the valves because there is almost never a problem with the manifold. I ordered the valves so when l receive and install, I'll post an update.

[dale farley]

I'm happy to report that after changing the 5 valves yesterday, the three doors and 2 drains are working as they should. The chronic exhausting is gone. After checking the operation of the doors, I disconnected the solenoid on one of them, because a screw has loosened at the top of the door and this causes it to hang when opening and closing. The screw holds it to the sliding rail. I am not sure how to correct this problem since it does not look reasonably accessible without tearing into the mirrored walls, so I will wait until I see someone who may know more about it. I just noticed yesterday I have another manifold that has 9 of these switches for controlling other functions, but they all seem to be working. Oh, the joys of technology and automation!!!

[Gil_J]

Great news Dale. Don't throw the old solenoids out. I think you only described one as being bad. The others will make great spares when you are on the road.

[dale farley]

Gil,

I definitely saved them. I can seal the bottom of the bad one and use it as a dummy to test others. Hopefully since I have some spares, I'll never need them.