Still needing some free advice from the forum gurus

[Double K]

Hi all
I am still looking for a bus per my previous threads. I have talked to several dealers, a few private owners, and have visited one dealership. I have narrowed the search somewhat. Budget limitations dictate a coach 2004 or older. If a non slide, I probably would only consider an XLII, rather than a non slide H3, and probably only a non slide Liberty. A non slide coach is easily within my budget. I have read many threads on the pros/cons of non slide coaches, but I have a four slide coach now, so I am concerned about making that adjustment.
If I insist on an H3, I think it will have to have slides. In that case, budget limitations would dictate a Featherlite Vantare.
Is the general consensus that a pre purchase inspection on a coach located in Florida should be performed by Prevost Jacksonville or Donnie Myer in Sanford? Are their any qualified individuals that can perform a pre purchase inspection? Should I be concerned about collaboration between the seller (such as a local dealer) and the inspector?
I read somewhere that a complete chassis inspection, including delamination inspection and slide inspection, is going to cost about $1100. Is this accurate?
Is there a standard arrangement between seller and potential buyer as to who pays for inspection and/or necessary repairs, or are these terms negotiated on a case by case basis?
Speaking of delamination on the XLII, is there a certain amount of time that must elapse before delamination is considered a remote possibility? For example, if the coach is 10 years old and has no signs of a problem, is it reasonable to assume that delamination will not occur?
Thanks to all for your guidance and advice!

[dale farley]

I don't think there are any rules about paying for a PDI. I have not heard of a seller paying for one, but I suppose it could happen. Most buyers assume that responsibility. Although I have no first hand experience with delamination, from all I've read and heard, it is something that could happen at any time, and it is something that may never happen. There seems to be no rules on PDI or delamination. $1100 sounds high to me, but maybe some charge that much.

[Gil_J]

Congrats on narrowing your choices down.

Slides: We went from a 42-foot quad slide coach to 45-foot no slides. Although it has worked well for us, it does present some limitations. Our biggest limitation is a place for our grandsons and/or parents to sleep. We also have a big dog and a slide would be nice. Missing the bedroom slide is no big deal to us. It means we can't realistically have a king bed, but that's it. Our perfect coach would have one driver's side slide up front.

Budget/Brand: I think you are saying only Vantare'/Featherlight Hs are in your price range. Keep looking as I have to believe others have a comparable price. In the model years you're looking at I'd suggest that only the costly bling added to Liberties or OTR air are going to drive those units to higher prices.

Inspections: I don't believe there can ever be a single inspection, but would suggest that Parliment/Coachworks comes as close as anyone else at being able to make that claim. I don't know Donnie, so he may be in that same league. Let me say that the conversion and the Prevost shell are really two very different animals. I would suggest 2 inspections, one for the conversion and one for the shell. Prevost would certainly be a great place for the shell and they are convenient. I might also suggest that Florida Detroit/Allison might be near as good a choice. If you are considering a XL-II that hasn't had the rivet based fix, then I would strongly encourage you go to Prevost. The repair is very costly and Prevost may not foot all or even part of the repairs.

Delamination: From what I've read on the failure of the adhesive I wouldn't bet that failure wouldn't occur at a later date. As an example, a coach that has spent most of its life in a storage facility may not shows signs of failure until it has been outside for a period of time. Keep in mind, this is just my opinion. Some years appear to be more prone to failure than others, so you might want to call Prevost with the VIN of the coach you are considering. If you don't have a candidate coach yet, call them and ask questions on the safe years and the process for inspecting a coach when you find one.

Costs: Any pre purchase inspections and movement of the coach to facilitate those inspections is a cost that you should be expected to pay. As the payer, any reports are yours; just like a home purchase inspection. Any findings can be used to finalize your negotiations. The costs vary. Some elect to have fluid and filter changes done with the inspections to same them a trip. If you go down this route just realize that if the deal falls through you ate those costs. I think, like buying a house, you should negotiate first and include up to X dollars in seller paid repairs discovered during the PDI. That limits your exposure to losing everything spent during the inspection(s). As a seller I wouldn't sign up to an opened ended repair bill, so I can't recommend you attempt to ask for the world.

I'm in FL if I can help you out,

[Joe Camper]

For any current looker and first time buyer an offer like that Gill threw out is GOLDEN.

Another POGer is going to give U more help in more ways than U could even begin to imagine.

The next bus I buy will be proceeded by as many days onboard as the seller is willing to agree to and a good long test drive is also a must. Not a trip around the block at least a 100 miles up the road and back.

If U never drove a Prevo before and its a dealer U R buying from take a few out so U can compare. Some R much tighter than others and being new if U don't U will not know.

[jack14r]

I had my 08 XLII stainless done recently in Jacksonville and Prevost did the stainless under warranty and paid for 1/2 of the paint cost,I have been told hat they would not participate in the repairs on a 2003 coach.I had a 2001 Marathon XLII without slides and it was great as far as space,I loved that coach and it had bus air,like Gil stated there are others that will fit the bill.

[garyde]

To date, I have not been afflicted with the delam issue. My Coach is a 2002 chassis. I really enjoy the slides. My air seals have broken several times over the years, they have been fine for the last 3 years. A Prevost inspection, depending on how specific , should be 4 hours or so. Its partially a visual inspection , and a review of the DDEC computer for current and/or past faults. The Conversion part of the Coach should be done with you so you will know what they are talking about and what is important . Same goes for the Chassis inspection.

[Double K]

Thank you for the excellent advice, and thanks to Gil for the generous offer. Excellent suggestion to call Prevost about the delam issue. I would be hesitant to buy an XLII that did not have the remedial work done. I hear the fix is outrageously expensive.
I will keep looking...stand by

[jack14r]

When I had mine done in December at Prevost Jacksonville I asked John Kincaid and he said between 30-35 thousand dollars.I understand that Prevost will not help on any coach more than 10 years old,but each coach and ownership is evaulated and then the decision is made by Guy French in Canada.

[garyde]

The method Prevost currently uses is to Rivet the vertical edge of the adjoining panels and install a stainless steel strip over the the counter sunk rivets.
This process is about 120 hours according to Prevost. Prevost will pay a partial to full amount depending on the age of the coach. That is to be determined when you bring it in. The strips are not very wide so the paint would be additional but not cost a lot.
The end product looks very nice.

[jack14r]

The painting was about $15,000 on my coach.

[garyde]

Hi Jack. What painting did you have done. Did you have panels replaced?

[jack14r]

The strips must be painted and the stainless must be polished.

[Gary Carmichael]

Has any one heard of any delimitation issues on H's Gary

[Gil_J]

Gary, not on the Hs. It would surprise me if they did have the problems on Hs. The H panels are not structural, as I've been told. So, they won't be subject to as much flex. Also, the plastic coach industry has been glueing fiberglass sides on for decades. You may hear of delamination with traditional coaches, but that is a delamination of the actual panels and not their adhesion to the coach's superstructure.

[Joe Camper]

I have seen Hs with the side panels below the windows coming unglued.


Just had one fixed in Jacksonville for a Vantare. Both sides forward edge front panel behind the weird shaped window.

[garyde]

The strips must be painted and the stainless must be polished.

I guess it would then depend on how much of the upper stainless panels have paint. There are 4 joining panel seams and one end seam at the rear on each side. The 4 stainless strips are 31 inches long and about 2 inches wide on each side. On my coach, one strip on each side would need full paint , the others only partial.
The strips I saw came polished.

So, it is going to depend on several variables but again, I don't see this job being $35,000.00 to $45,000.00.

When they were ripping panels off and replacing, yes, it was up there.

[Pete]

I visited Prevost Ft. Worth about 2 weeks ago and they were working on 2 coaches with skin problems both XLII's. Not only had they removed the vertical strips, but they had removed the horizontal strips as well. They re-glue, and rivet the seams, then install new strips which must be re-painted/polished to match the original.
Cost of about 30-35K plus the paint work.
Can't tell you how much better that visit made my riveted coach look when I got back home.

[Double K]

Interesting discussion on XLII delamination. If delamination can occur at any time on just about any XLII, and really does cost $30K+ to fix, and Prevost doesn't "step up to the plate," I don't think I am interested. I understand that my pre purchase inspection can verify that no current delamination issues are present, but future issues concern me. I guess I could just equate it with other potential catastrophes, like a blown engine.

BTW, does anyone know anything about Olympia Coach located in the Nashville, TN area? PM me if you prefer. They have a coach that interests me.....

[Gil_J]

I wouldn't rule out a XL-II because of delamination concerns. I would either make sure it was 2010 or newer, that the rivet repair was done, that the repairs was part of the deal, or it was priced such that the risk was affordable.

[Pete]

I agree with Gil. The rivet free coaches are very pretty.

[truxton]

Here we go again with the delam issue. Not all have it. Mine is an 06 chasis and has no signs of it and I know of others with no issues. It is absolutely something to check but I sure wouldn't rule out something pre 2010. I've seen H's with glue shot in the sides and a strap around the whole bus like a big xmas bow compressing it to dry. That was a few years ago and I'm sure there doing it differently now.

Later
bv

[Double K]

Hi all
I have been a regular lurker on the forum since my last post, and I have been looking at a lot of coaches on line. Meanwhile, I sold my motorhome (my fourth one), and I am without an RV for the first time since 1998. I am already not liking that situation.
So, while I have been looking and learning, I have not pursued a purchase because I did not want to own two coaches. Now I can really shop to buy, although I still struggle with slide vs. non slide, XL vs. H, etc.
Meanwhile, I have been looking specifically at a 2003 Liberty Elegant Lady that is offered by Olympia. Does anybody have the inside scoop on this coach. It seems to be spending quite a bit of time in the shop....

[Gil_J]

It sure is a good looking coach. I did notice that it hasn't had the latest delamination fix, which simply mean it has no leaks. I also see that at least some TVs are dated, without digital tuners. New tires and batteries is a big...$9K....plus.

[tommybahama]

Back to the topic: Recommended Prevost inspectors.

For Marathon conversions, I nominate Rick May at Parliament Coach. He was Marathon's Eastern Sales Manager for many years.

For Featherlight conversons, Donnie Myers is the one. Ex-Featherlight manager.

I have nothing but positive things to relate about Prevost Jacksonville, but they don't like to get into what they call "converter specific" issues.

Rick May is likeliest your one-stop inspector. Have no idea what it would cost.

[coreygrubb]

David, you are right on all counts. I would also include Ben Cumming on anything Vantare, in fact between Rick and Ben, you can have them inspect any conversion. I would also recommend Jeff Rowe at East Tennessee Luxury Coach especially for Liberty. Geo

[Dick in Wisconsin]

I highly recommend Jeff Rowe also. We just bought a 1999 Liberty XLV with his assistance. Nothing stumped him. He started working on Prevosts at Buddy Gregg's in 1990 and then for Liberty for a long time. Good luck!