Webasto Operating Question - CC XL

[NashXL]

11/4

Hi to Country Coach XL owners. I found very little in the publications with my coach about the Webasto. Getting into the 20's a week ago was a wake-up call. The new DuoTherms worked well on the heat pump cycle and brought it up from the 40's to 70 in no time. I have the Webasto system. Checked threads I could find. Seems as though some work from the thermostat; others have on or two separate just for the Webasto. I do not see separate controls. I do have Webasto/Heat button/switches overhead in the cockpit. Do I just fire up and off as needed? I do not see any temp adjust panels...... Thank you if you can help.

Sincerely,

Doug
Nash XL

1999 Country Coach

[dale farley]

Doug,

I don't remember the settings, but there are very specific guidelines for getting the system working properly. Jim K. or Gil can give you those instructions.

[coreygrubb]

Doug, after you start it with the button you mention, you set your thermostat to furnace mode in zones 1&3 and set the temp.You also have to turn the heat exchande buttons on up front, in the galley and in the bedroom.

[NashXL]

Hi Corey. Holy Crap Batman! Makes me yearn for the days of our low brow Class A with gas heat. Separate thermostat, set it for the coach and basement.
Does the system work well if operating properly?
Follow-up question. They installed the new digital Dometic thermostat with the new A/C/Heat Pumps. My zones for the three are 2,3 & 4. One doe not have a function. guess I should call Excaliber about this for the Webasto settings.
Did you guys get the coach to the shop for the cosmetic touch-up (being positive). Too nice looking to leave roughed up. I thought you said it was going in after Branson.

Sincerely,
Doug NashXL

[coreygrubb]

Doug, whatever zones have a furnace mode. Our thermostat has it on 2 zones. Basement automatic. Make sure all your heat exchangers are on. Coach has been at Walter de Andrea since Oct. 24. You comming to Fla. at all this winter ?

[NashXL]

Corey -
I checked with Doug. Since my new therm is on 2,3 & 4 the Webasto is on 2 & 4. I'm gonna give it a try. Thanks for the help. Will be in and out of Tampa for my company. Not sure about bringing the XL through KY and TN and the fog and icy mountains in winter. May have to buck up and fly more. May head to Austin next week for the Formula 1 and support races. Still have a few 57' x 20' MH spots left. $998. for five days and you get 4 - $169 all weekend general passes. It is supposed to be a party blast. 1,156 miles according to google so I need to decide. I know it will be warmer down there!
Doug

[Gil_J]

Doug,


-- Set your thermostats for Furnace and adjust the temperature. Only your first and last zone has a furnace mode (you knew that). Why yours are numbered 2-4 makes no sense.
-- Turn on Interior Heat Control above driver's seat. You may have to wait for the thermostat to activate the furnace function.
-- Adjust the heat exchanger fan speeds (dash, galley, and bedroom). These are panel controlled.

As already stated, the basement heat is automatic after turning on the Central Heat control. Here's one you may not know (I didn't). When the central heat control is on, it will heat the hot water if you turn on the hot water heaters. Shore or generator power not necessary.

[NashXL]

11/5

Gil,

Thanks as always. That's a cool system of heating water with three ways; the Webasto; over the road (it gets really hot with ours) and the heater elements.

BTW - I left you a note on the shower mixer valve thread. Turned out Alson's (now a Delta company with the name being fazed out) uses a Price Pfister mixing valve. I did have the plastic hot water limiter on the old vlave; but removed the valve anyway (the original is in two pieces; the current replacement is a one piece). Glad I did for $30. The two old rubber gaskets that seal the valve to the plumbing main were pretty disintegrated and calcified. Cleaned well with Lime Away, replaced everything (left the limiter off) and now have almost instant hot water. No wasting gallons waiting for the water to get luke warm and still not have a hot shower. Nice! Completely detailed the whole shower with Lime Away, vinegar on the glass, etc. and it looks brand new. Now all of the plumbing is done; faucets, sinks/traps, shower and water closet.12456

Sincerely,

Doug
NashXL

[Gil_J]

Doug, do you want to clean and service my shower? Great job and I'm glad the shower fix was easy.

As for really hot water when heated by the engine, or Webasto for that matter, there is a solenoid that is suppose to turn off the circulating hot water at a specific temperature. I don't know what that temperature is. If it's not working you could have hot water the temperature of your engine coolant--not good or safe. You may want to verify they are working after your next drive. I'm guessing the automatic solenoids are set to about 140 degrees or less.

[Barney]

Hey Gil, Thanks to this post I just got my Webasto to fire up for the first time.
Couple questions:
Ok, I turned "ON" the central heat switch above the driver seat, the red "heater on" light came on.
Next to this switch is one "interior heat exchangers" Turned it on also, but what happens if you don't?
I can't figure out how to adjust the fan speeds? Are these the same fans that operate for OTR a/c?
The switches on the dash near my right knee that have three speeds for a/c are inoperable in this state.
I'm lost.

Barney

Doug,

-- Turn on Central Heat Control above driver's seat.
-- Set your thermostats for Furnace and adjust the temperature. Only your first and last zone has a furnace mode (you knew that). Why yours are numbered 2-4 makes no sense.
-- Adjust the heat exchanger fan speeds (dash, galley, and bedroom). These are panel controlled.

As already stated, the basement heat is automatic after turning on the Central Heat control. Here's one you may not know (I didn't). When the central heat control is on, it will heat the hot water if you turn on the hot water heaters. Shore or generator power not necessary.

[dale farley]

Barney,

Assuming the 2000 is like the 1999, I think you will find the fan speed on the bank of switches above your refrigerator.

[Gil_J]

I HATE THE "REPLY TO THREAD" button still being visible when composing a reply! Let me try this again :-(

Note to self, Review what you've written before submitting. Barney I had an error that is likely causing you your issue.

There are 2 main Webasto heating control systems.
-- Central Heat: This controls heat in the basement regulated through a basement thermostat and heating for domestic hot water which is activated when the hot water heater switches are on. To activate this system the "Central Heat Control" switch above the driver's position must be on.
-- Interior Heat: This controls heat inside the coach delivered through 3 heat exchangers. To activate this system the air conditioner controller needs to be set to Zone 1 and/or 3 and the "Interior Heat Control" switch above the drivers position needs to be on. You may notice that you can't activate the interior heat control switch even though you have set the thermostat to Furnace position. This is likely due to the fact that the thermostat has a delay before engaging the furnace; just wait a minute and try again.

To control the flow of heat in the coach there are three Webasto heat exchangers, Dash, Galley, and Bedroom. Each has a switch that is used to select low or high speed. With the switch off (yellow) the fan is on high speed. On (green) is low speed. I believe Zone 1 activates the dash and galley heat exchangers and Zone 3 the bedroom heat exchanger.

There is also Prevost dash heat. This uses the engine's heat, through distribution of coolant, to heat the dash area. This dash heat exchanger is not the same as the dash heat exchanger supported by the Webasto. It is controlled with the temperature and fan speed knobs (not the fan speed switches) to the right of the driver. Although not required, the circulator pump switch will increase the flow of coolant to the heat exchanger which also results in a more even flow of heated coolant.

[JIM KELLER]

Gil, Very well written. You are a good Teacher.

[Barney]

OUTSTANDING! Thanks again for taking time to help make life easier.

[Reagan Sirmons]

Gil, I do not check these items too often but noticed that you stated earlier that the heat exchanger fan speeds are set by a panel button? Where is the button and what does it state on the cover? I am not certain that mine has that function but do note a slow down in fan speed when I turn on the kitchen heat exchanger.
Thank you,
Pres

[Gil_J]

Pres, that button doesn't turn on the kitchen heat exchanger. The heat exchangers inside are activated by the interior heat control button above tge driver and the AC thermostat by putting it in furnance mode for zones 1 and 3.

The kitchen, dash, and bedroom heat exchanger buttons only change the associated fan speed from high (yellow button light) to low speed speed (green button light).

I hope this helps,

[Papa Jo]

Thanks Gill for all your info. I am a new owner of a 2000 cc and have some questions on the webest heating system. When I first got the coach I had trouble getting the webest to fire. I sent it of got it repaired and now fires with no problem. However it makes a sporadic poping noise like droping water on a hot skillet. I only last a couple of minutes but is very anoying when you are trying to sleep above it. I supect the sporadic part is the solenoid opening as the tstat calls for heat? Any thoughts? Also the heat coming out of the heat exchangers is not very hot, i was able to warm it up a bit by changing the speed per your prevoius post but still not very warm. I checked fluid and it is ok, opened the auto vent to bleed air and it seam ok. Help? Per your previous post you said the central heat controll for the basement and wh was optional - my owners book says it has to be on for the interior heat to work. Which is? Same question about the circulating pump? Also do the fans on the heat exchangers never shut off?

Thanks - PaPa Jo

[Papa Jo]

Wow, so sorry for the horible spelling and grammer.

[Papa Jo]

Thought I would post an update on my hydronic heating issues. With florida cold snap coming I figured I had better take another look at this yestegrday. If you recall I was having trouble getting heat out of my interior heat exchangers and when operating the webesto made a horible boiling sound. I have two circulating pumps and acording to my manuel diagram one supplies the interior heat exchangers and the other the basement air. Eerything switch wise works exactly like Gills has explaned. When I turn everything on and one of the pumps starts up imediately and the webesto fires up - thats where things go squirly - once the heater comes up to temperature it starts the boiling sound. The aha moment came at this point, I think my circulating pump (although running) is not pumping. To double check this I jumpered the second pump and once it was on the poping stopped and i got interior heat. I left the jumper in place and turned off everthing and went back to heat pumps last night. Today went back to fire up and the system had blown several fuses on the controll board. So I removed jumper and replaced fuses and back to where I was. So hear are my questions now: Which pump is suposed to be for the interior and which for the basement? Has anyone taken one of these pumps apart or replaced it? I wonder if the pump impeller is just loose? Why can I not tempoarily run a 12 volt line to the second pump to get me by the cold snap? Or switch wires to pumps so second runs? Any idea where I can get replacement pump?? Help!! Freezing in Florida! Do you think heat pumps will work tonight at 27 degrees?

[Papa Jo]

After further study of the system piping diagram it apears the main pump should turn on when any of the areas call for heat (Water heater, Water Bay, or Interior heat). If the main pump does not run the interior heat pump would have to push through that pump which is in the return line. In other words whenever the interior heat pump is turned on the main pump should come on as well? If this is so - maybe their is another problem other than the pump. Is their something on the controll board that should be sending power to it as well? I do not have power at that pump (brown wire). The other pump that works is Blue wire.

[Reagan Sirmons]

Papa Jo
I removed and replaced one of the pumps. It is a basic function and you should have absolutely no issue with the project. I would not try to rebuild the pump because it is a very important part that operates under pressure and heat long term. Mine had cracked in the housing. Prepare to catch the anti-freeze in some type of container for environmental reasons ...but the spill should be very small, if at all. After you study the issues, they will be very obvious..... takes about an hour to exchange if that long once you get started...
Pres

[JIM KELLER]

It is possible for one pump to run and not the other depending on thermostat settings. The Bay heat has it's own thermostat down in the cargo bay. Circulation of water can be determined by feeling the hoses going into and out of the pumps.

[Gil_J]

Papa Jo,

Logic would suggest that each pump would be dedicated to the two main heating loops we have. Your findings are correct. Whenever the Webasto is on the pump connected with the brown wire is always on. I just verified this with the schematic and then turned on the interior heat and both pumps came on. If you only have the basement heat selected then only the brown wire connected pump will come on. When you have the interior heat on the blue wire connect pump will ALSO come on. BTW, this is not clearly evident when looking at the plumbing drawing.

So, why did fuses blow when you had both pumps jumped together? It would seem that the total load for both motors running at the same time exceeds the fuse ratings. Try this, disconnect the interior pump and connect the main pump to the blue wire. Now set your interior heat and thermostat to call for interior heat. This should activate the main pump and the system should run without the popping (boiling) sound and the fuses should not blow. If this works, then you need to determine why the main pump is not being supplied power. You have probably looked at the same drawing I did. The Webasto signals the main pump to come on. See if the Webasto is indeed signalling the main pump. If that is good, you will have to look at the main control board in the ECC where I believe you'll find the relay that energizes the main pump circuit.

You asked about the impeller. It is simply pressed on the motor shaft. Here's what the impeller looks like:



13583

I have replaced one of the two pumps and the job isn't hard. I turned off the engine coolant valves near the engine. Unlike Reagan, I had a lot of coolant escaping. I used pinch clamps on the hoses to limit coolant loss. I bought my pump from Midwest Bus Parts (http://www.midwestbusparts.com/). I also bought a repair kit for the pump. As you can see from the photo, I have yet to get around to putting the repair kit in. My pump had a leaking shaft seal.

[Papa Jo]

Ok Gil, Good post and glad you confirmed my theory. I tried your sugestion and you were correct in the main pump came on and worked just fine. So started working back to see why pump circuit H14 was not getting power. I have power coming out of the Webesto controller on Yellow and green H19 & H34 which goes back to the ECC - Since the ecc is sending power back out for the interior circuit I believe this part of the circuit is all good. This is where I get lost. Is the relay for the pump circuits on the board or one of the lower stand alone relays at the bottom right of the cabinet? I checked all fuses on the board and along the bottum of the cabinet and all are good? I noticed you are in Beaverly Hills Florida, I am over at the Florida Grand in Webster.
Thanks, Papa Jo

[Gil_J]

The relay for energizing the Main circulation pump would not appear to be on the ECC. Although, it could be one of the ones on the lower right inside the ECC cabinet. Based on what it is doing and where it gets its control it would seem like it should be very near the Webasto. The control for this relay are wires H9 and H34, both of which are directly connected to Pins 1 and 2 of the Webasto control unit. The high current side of the relay feeds the Main pump through wire H14 and it gets its voltage from wire #403 that likely comes from the ECC.

You have my contact information if you'd like some help.

[doug.biesinger@gmail.com]

Hi Gil,

Hope all is well...Newbie question...you above statement, does that apply to my 2001 Liberty H345...I have the 4 OTR units (controls) 1 above driver, 2 in galley panel and 1 in bedroom) and wabasto...also there is a heater in the bath area baseboard and in the lower storage area (compartment that water pump and hot water tank live) I am guessing the operations would be similar???

[Gil_J]

Doug, I don't recall if your coach will have a Furnace selection on the some or all of your AC thermostats. If not, it should have 2, maybe 3, old school thermostats dedicated to Webasto. If the AC thermostats control the Webasto heat, there should also be a switch elsewhere to allow the Webasto to run.

[doug.biesinger@gmail.com]

Gil, you are correct...2 separate thermostats for Webasto...newbie question...do I need to run the AC thermostats when the Webasto is turned on...just not sure how the 2 systems work together??? thanks

Doug B

[truk4u]

Doug,

I had an 01 Liberty and if you have the 2 heat thermostats working the only reason to have the SMX controls running would be for your cruiseair heat pumps. It’s been almost 5 years, but I think I got it right.

[Gil_J]

Doug,

With 2 different thermostats, there should not be any ties between the Webasto and air conditioners.