Beware that awning springs don't injure you

[Jeff Bayley]

A mechanic doing some work for me here used to be an authorized installer for Zip Dee awnings. He told me that an awning spring can kill you if you go to dissasemble it carelessly. That is good information to have that I didn't know. I had my awning let itself out from a severe cross wind not too long ago and I was lucky that it did'nt get totally ruined but instead I was able to extend it and watch as it rolled the flapping canvas back up just like it was supposed to. I was shocked that it didn't tear itself off the bus. I can easily see where I may have needed to remove it under different / less lucky circumstances and might have found this out the hard way.

Be warned.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

There are probably few owners that have not had awning problems. If you have not had them yet, you will.

I'm not familiar with the newer cantilevered awnings, but the old style Zip Dee awnings do require certain things if you are to travel with them in high winds. You should have working locks on both ends. You should have the claw type pivoting lock that is secured to the side of the coach and the awning aluminum slats as a back up lock. Since we experienced what Jeff did in Barstow CA one time and had to hang ove the side of an embankment to try to re-roll our awning that opened while we were driving we also use the velcro wrap type straps on the awning arrms to supplement the end and claw locks.

The comment about the spring is that if you choose to disassemble your awning yourself you really need to understand about how much energy is stored in a coiled spring, and that once you detach the aft awning arm things are going to get exciting unless you can hold it and unwind it carefully. It may not kill you, but an awning arm flailing around will beat you about the head and body.

But....do not be afraid to work on your awnings. They are simple, and usually the only repairs which need to be made involve a replacement of the brake. Brake replacement is not difficult and it generally takes about 1/2 hour to unwind the spring, drill out the old rivets, install the new brake and rewind the spring. It can be done by one person, but it is far easier with two, especially if one of the two is someone tall like JDUB.

[BrianE]

Do the springs lose their strength over time? I recently replaced the fabric on our awnings and the patio awning seems to have a very weak return. I followed Zip-Dees instructions and wound the 20' awning 20 turns and it didn't want to return at all. Added another 10 and it's still very weak. Is replacing the spring a big deal. Thanks.

BrianE
94Liberty XL

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Brian,

They do. You can compensate for that by adding a turn or two.

If you can support the aft end of the awning on a tall ladder and disconnect the arm(s) from the coach you will feel the arms trying to unwind. Take a turn or two in the opposite direction and see if that restores the tension necessary to roll it up tightly. Have Beverly stand nearby because you may need help.

You may have to slide the inner arm out to get the swing you need. I'm going by memory. JDUB, can you provide more detail?

[lewpopp]

You must turn the arm the same number of turns as the number of feet long the large awning is plus 7. 30 turns seems excessive to me. The Dodas will help you if you call.

Lew

[Just Plain Jeff]

Listen to Lew: He's the Zip-Dee Meister.

The deal on the Zip-Dee awnings is that they are supposedly guaranteed for life (parts only) and each awning has a certain number of turns prior to securing it for proper tension on extension, rollup speed and storage. More or less turns can either result in too much tension or not enough.

I'll try to find out more about the twists and turns if I can.

In any case with the 'patio' awning, you better have a good friend you can trust on the other end, that is, unless you are looking forward to a rather interesting event.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Lew is right on the number of turns, but the springs do relax after several years, and the recommended number of turns is approximate.

The spring can be replaced and to work on the awnings isn't a big deal until you are dealing with a fully wound spring, at which point you just need to be careful and not let go of the arms. You need a drill and a pop rivet gun and a few wrenches for tools. Unless the spring is broken all that should be necessary is to add some turns.

On my coaches I felt the spring tension was correct if the awning was pulled open and it would not stay down unless I held it or the brakes were on. If I reduced the spring tension by one turn the awning would stay down. Its a trial and error thing.

[Just Plain Jeff]

Its a trial and error thing.

So is bungie-jumping. Makes sense to have an extra-long bungie cord, but it is likely that shorter is better?

Lemme see if we can find out something that's recommended as a baseline.

I wrote it down to figure out.

Now if I can just find that piece of paper....

[Just Plain Jeff]

As usual, Lew nailed it:

http://www.zipdeeinc.com/images/rv_maint_adjusttensionspring.jpg

There are even pictures! The New Year has promise.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

No disagreement Jeff, but as the spring ages and weakens some adjustment becomes necessary. The trial and error comment comes from the fact that the awning spring has changed a little over time and just how much compensation one must make for that change is not as precisely defined as it is on a new one.

If I remember we made a one or two turn adjustment on JDUB's in Polk City.

Related to this is the exact same thing on the emergency brakes on our coaches. Those who never have to deal with inclines won't realize it, but as the brakes age, the holding force on the emergency brakes diminishes. Since there is no way to compensate for that our only recourse (unlike with a Zip Dee awning) is to replace the brake chamber.

[BrianE]

Back in November PeterVS started a thread showing his improved awning support arms, (as installed on our bus). I posted the following re that experience. Jeff's warning should be taken seriously.


The results of getting ahead of yourself can have unpleasant results. Even though both awning lock arms were engaged, somewhere in the process one of them got bumped open and the other one was tripped when the awning came loose in my hand. Suggest that the patio awning should be taken down with two guys on ladders at both ends. Much less expensive.

BrianE
94LibertyXL

[Jeff Bayley]

Regarding my original post about the awngings and the danger, I want to add the following. Minimizing the danger on the awnings (or similar dangers) by saying that it's no big deal if you know what your doing. Key phrase there "if you know what your doing". Landing the Space Shuttle is no big deal if you know what your doing. I would be a perfect candidate for getting hurt on somthing like this and hopfully my Dum and Dummer counterpart is not out there in this group, but just in case, use caution. The story that was relayed to me involved a coach owner that was requesting the installer (the guy who told me the story) to add a few extra turns than was called for in order to make the spring tighter and hold the awning tighter. The installer refused and after he left, our hero of this story took it upon himself to redo the installers work and add his self prescribed extra turns. The extra turns weren't the problem but rather his dissasembly of the awning incorrectly. The spring unwound in his hand somehow and sent him to the hospital with severe cuts. Evidentley he bleed all over his new white carpet and also had permanent nerver damage in his hands.

I thing that our level of knowledge is all relevant and what is obvious and a no brainer for some is rocket science for others. I've noticed that a lot of members are technically inclined, thank goodness for the rest of us who depend on them for help. Machine shop owners, manufactures in various fields, electrical contracter are just a few real examples that come to mind. The bus is a natural toy for some and the complicated systems are viewed as interesting. The more you enjoy tinkering with things the more enjoyable your bus ownership will be I suspect. I've got a whole electrial kit I keep on board including two volt meters, a soldering iron, etc but I just learned what a relay does recentley when I went to get my trailer lights wired up. I was in Texas changing my shore power cords end out and another coach owner marveled and tried to recruit me to work on his coach thinking I must be a whize at everything. I'm no where close to being a Mr. Wizard like some of the active posters here.

I can be wreckless in one area and super concious in another. I probabley drive to fast for example but I have every kind of blinking beacon, saftey contes, flares and reflectors on board which is a good thing beucase I need them more often from going to fast. Wait, maybe there is a coralation there. Note to self.......slow down and do better maintainence and mabye you can ditch the roadside junk. Hmmm, what a concept.

Ok, here's another example then. Your going along at 75mph and everthing is fine right ? Suddenly, the yo,yo in front of you decides to slam on his brakes to get off at the next exit and the cocktail your drinking goes all over the place including your good pants. Moral of the story ? Don't drink and drive with good pants on. Jeeez, these other drivers that brake fast like that are going to ruin my good clothes ! I think one POG'er had to replace his transmission control panel recentley from spilling his cocktail down there. Oh, that was juice. I have to get one of those head gear things that hold the beers and run a straw to your mouth. Now there's a safety device !

Next question. I'll post here rather than start a new thread. That way someone will click on the awning topic and get something totally unrelated. Why stop now ?

How much voltage is too low to run my Aqua Hot without causing maintaince issues ? When I had it serviced last, the tech cautioned me that low voltage was bad for them. I can't recall exactly how or why but I think he said the orafice that the fuel goes through get's clogged / dirty easier (???). I'm dry camping now and using the Aqua Hot and the interior blower fans to heat the coach and my voltage get's down around 11.4 volts. I thinks this is too low. I don't want to use the auto start especially over night.

I've also noticed that my batteries seem to hold their charge level better between the low to high 11's and give a sharp(er) drop off down to 12 volts from a full charge. I'm running Interstate D-4's. 8 of them. Only about 4-5 months old. I know already know that lifespan of the batteries is reduced by letting them drain down to far (11.8 ???).

Aquat Voltage question to main thing I'm after.

[garyde]

Hi Jeff. Anything under 12.25 volts is not good

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jeff,

Gary is right because 12 volts is just a convenient way to describe the batteries. If they are at 12 volts they are virtually dead. There are some good sites to help you understand batteries and their management.

Here's one: http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Battery%20Voltages

The reason for talking about this is because it directly impacts your Aqua-Hot. You need good voltage for two reasons. You have an internal pump that forces the diesel fuel through an orfice to make an atomized spray, If the voltage is low it affects how ell the pump does its job. The second reason to maintain the voltage is you need a spark to ignite the atomized fuel, and the less atomization the more you need the intense spark. So low votage works against you in two ways.

But how low does it have to get? That is a good question, and the only way to answer that is to literally run a test with lower voltages until you get to the point where performance is affected unless the Aqua Hot engineers have already provided the answer.

[Jeff Bayley]

Gary and Jon-

Thanks for the feedback. I've run the Aqua Hot for a few nights with the voltage in the mid to high 11's. I get the sense that I get build up somewhere from running it at low voltage. If I run it at proper voltage will it burn off the build up and be ok or do I need to have it checked ? Not even sure if I'm characterizing this correctly.

[lewpopp]

Jeff,

I once knew a little girl who was brought up in the poor neighborhood and she kept looking skyward. Her mother hardly had enough to make it week to week. They lived in my area where I had a store and the little girl frequented my store along with her little friends.

The true story goes that she would see the gliders flying above and wondered how they stayed aloft. Some day I'll fly up there she would say.

Where am I going? If a space shuttle is so easy to land if you know what you are doing, then why do they sometimes revert to landing in California, New Mexico, or Texas? Because they require exacting elements on hand to land such s flying machine. We all know this !

Working at a local pizza parlor, this little girl took glider lessons and then flying lessons and went on to a local community college. What an amazing gal and then she went on to receive many more aeronautical degrees thru scholarships and hard work.

The little girl will agree with me about the difficulty in landing the space shuttle because she did it numerous times. This little girls' name is Eileen Collins. One of the most magnificent women I know.

Lew

[Jeff Bayley]

Ok Lew. Point well made.

Let me rephrase then. Baking a cake is easy if you know what you're doing ?

[truk4u]

Jeff,

Keep the batteries above 12.2/24.4 and you will be in good shape. Set your auto gen to start at those voltages. When your driving, your alternator will take care of the batteries and when your plugged in the inverter/chargers will keep them topped off. 12.2/24.4 is considered 50% discharged and anything lower than that will decrease the life of your batteries. ;)

[mikedee]

I just replaced the spring on my window awning. Took 20-30 minutes, not hard at all. I really liked the parts from Zipdee. I was expecting just a spring that I would need to install on the ends and connecting rod, but got the total assembly ready to install. EASY!

Lifetime warranty I was told is for the original owner or at rallies, fair by me. $64.00 bucks got me the parts to my house. I do have a problem with the PLC that controls the main awning. Just not firing the solenoids correctly. They offered to help me at the rallies or at their shop in Illinois. I can extend and retract the awning by manually opening and closing the solenoids in the correct order. I have the Directlogic programming software and the cable. If I get time I think I will see if they will email me the program.

Mike & Dee
01 Royale, Quartzsite AZ tonight