Shopping for a Prevost

[jbchevy3]

Hi everyone, I am new to the site. I am Presently a 06 Country Coach Intrigue owner, but looking hard for a 2003 or So Prevost, miles up to 150k if taken care of.

The question I have is, what are the Pros and cons in comparing an H3-45 to an XL II?
I like both, which is better?

I know that's a BIG question, but I'm interested in any advice.

thank you

Jerry & Gayle

[coreygrubb]

Jerry, If you look back on archived posts on the forum these differences have been pretty thouroughly discussed. Until the magnitude of the de-lam issues with the XL11's became known, the preferences mainly ran the gamut of asthetics, basement storage, split floor and overall height. Mechanically and converter specific systems they are the same.

[dale farley]

Jerry,

You should get several different opinions on this question. Some like the XL II better because it has the stainless and is not as large as the H3. The H3 has more storage room in the basement than any of the other buses. Some don't like the split levels of the driver and passenger seats in the H3, some do like it. With everything else being equal, the H3 probably will always weigh more than the XL. In the end, it is going to be which one you really like the best.

[garyde]

Hi Jerry. I always wanted the Stainless. Its an addiction.

[dale farley]

Jerry, Here is one link that discusses some of the differences including one owner that has owned all 3 Prevosts. http://forum.prevostownersgroup.com/showthread.php?2786-Driving-experience-of-XLII-vs-XL&highlight=comparison

[jbchevy3]

Ok, after reading those articles, would you pass on an XLII because of delamination issues, or does that only involve certain year models?

Jerry

[coreygrubb]

Jerry, As much as we like the looks of the XL11, We would not buy one unless it a documented latest repair by Prevost (i.e. rivets and cover strip). Even if Prevost eats the panel repairs on a second or third owner coach, the owner will be responsible for the re-paint (15k-30k). Just our opinion, but we'll hang onto our rivets until we find the H we want

[n33d2camp]

Good point about the delamination thing you'll never recover your paint cost and no help from prevost. Your XLII has lost tons of value because of the delamination

[coreygrubb]

When we say we're looking for the right H, we are not ruling out the right XL11 either. You can somewhat check the extent of de-lam by banging on the panels and listening for a hollow sound. You can then take the costs of repairs into the purchase price. I guess then the question becomes whether or not the current method of repair is the final answer. Not really wanting a Cruise-air or basement air H, kind of limits us to a '93 or newer Marathon or '95 or newer Millenium. We might take a chance on an XL11, but only at an extremely attractive price that allowed for a future repair.

[jbchevy3]

OK, now you have brought up another question, the A/C, I was told by a friend of mine to find an H with over the road Bus air. Is that better than the roof airs, or cruise airs or what are thoughts on bus over the road air?

Looking
Jerry

[garyde]

I agree with what everyone has said in regard to the stainless panels. However, I have heard nothing about the failure rate. Was it 10%, 15% or25% of all theConvertor Coaches made from 2000 to 2006, 2007 or 2008? Does anyone know? Were all Convertors involved? I know Marathon had the problem, what about the other convertors. More Marathons or was it across the board with all convertors.
Originally, I had heard this issue was limited to only a few Coaches using a certain adhesive.
So, what is the stats? Which years were affected, and which convertors. What year did it stop being a problem.

Without some good background information, we are just spreading rumors and creating un warranted fear for all the XLII.
I for onehave not had this problem, and I keep a close eye on it. I've owned the coach for about 7 years.

Regarding Paint. The cost varies depending upon how much paint or graphics come down into the stainless panels.
My coach has very little paint on the panels.

[coreygrubb]

Nobody knows the extent of the problem except Prevost. It certainly not converter specific, as the problem lies with the Prevost shell. I do know that every XL11 that we have looked at has some sign of de-lam. Some will get worse and some probably will not.

[coreygrubb]

[QUOTE=jbchevy3;86114]OK, now you have brought up another question, the A/C, I was told by a friend of mine to find an H with over the road Bus air. Is that better than the roof airs, or cruise airs or what are thoughts on bus over the road air?

This subject has been addressed exstensively in previous threads. General rule of thumb is that a cruise-air coach w/o bus air is unacceptable in hot climates. Marathon and CC OTR air with ducted roofs is fine. Remember that Prevost bus air or converter OTR air only works going down the road. Some converters have a split cruise-air system that allows you to use 2 airs on invert while moving.

[n33d2camp]

Corey is correct, most have it from 2000 - 2009 some worse than others and its not if but when it will have to be done. The only cure is rivets and cover panels from prevost. If it's not bad you can just ignore it but down the line of ownership someone will have to step up.

[Seabyrd]

Welcome Jerry & Gayle, My 10 cents worth is: I would NOT consider an H without OTR... you will be miserable if you travel anywhere in the south in the summer. The roof airs in the older coaches are very noisy... cruisairs are very quiet and if tweaked they are super efficient... We had our RVAC (house air) system totally overhauled and it is also very quiet and efficient. All these components require proper care and servicing to get the most out of them. Roof air plus is they can be replaced easily and the new ones are much quieter so I have been told. I would make sure it had 4 of them if roof airs too... 3 won't keep you cool in Texas.... especially if you have slides. Good luck !!

[Alek&Lucia]

Corey,

You can use OTR (Prevost bus air) even when you park, but your engine must be running,

Alek


[QUOTE=jbchevy3;86114].....Remember that Prevost bus air or converter OTR air only works going down the road....

[coreygrubb]

[QUOTE=Alek&Lucia;86125]Corey,

You can use OTR (Prevost bus air) even when you park, but your engine must be running,

Alek
Of course. I did not feel the need to mention that you would not sit and idle the coach for any length of time to have AC

[Gil_J]

It seems that the XL-II panel failures are most prevalent with coaches that are subjected to long stays at the beach. It very well be the salt spray (just guessing). I know the one picture I saw showed what appeared to be corrosion on the frame member on the surface that mates with the side panel. It's impossible to tell is this was from the environment, poor application of the corrosion inhibitor, or an interaction between the adhesive and the corrosion inhibitor. I wonder it anyone has had rivets and cover installed as a precautionary measure?

Air conditioning systems generally run off of 110VAC or the coach's engine. Dash air runs off the engine and only has dash air outlets. Over the Road Air runs off the engine and is intended to cool the entire coach when going down the road. Prevost's is probably overkill given it's intended to cool an all windows coach with over 50 people inside. Country Coach developed their own OTR Air. Much smaller than Prevost's, does not take up a bay like the Prevost OTR air, and with the dash air running it will cool a coach. 110VAC air includes roof air, cruise air, and basement air. Roof airs tend to be a bit noisy and may or may not be ducted. I have 3 roof airs and seldom use more that 2 during the day and 1 at night. Roof airs should be capable of cooling a coach while driving if you don't have OTR air. FWIW, traditional plastic coaches don't have OTR air but rather depend on roof airs, so it's safe to assume they should work on our coaches as well. Cruise airs are split systems, so they are quieter. They do take up space in the bays and I've been told are not effective in hot climates when driving as an alternative to OTR Air. Basement air is really nothing more than what's traditionally installed outside of a mobile home. It's a self contained air conditioning system like a roof air, but larger. I'm not sure basement airs are being installed anymore. Roof airs are norm in the greater RV industry.

[coreygrubb]

Roof air is cetainly becoming the norm. Millenium builds nothing else, most Marathons 2004 and newer and now Liberty (gasp). Properly ducted roof air combined with OTR air has proved to us that it can comfortably handle triple digit temps on the road or parked. Owners with older coaches who think their roofs are too noisy, can fairly easily and relatively cheaply retrofit to the newer and quieter (quiet enough for Liberty) units. That will also let them go from 13,500 to 15,000 btu.

[jbchevy3]

Thanks for all the advice, sounds like OTR air is a plus for driving only. And roof airs are acceptable. I live in the southeast, and like to be cool.....

Jerry

[jbchevy3]

Thanks, so OTR air a plus, roof airs are ok, and De-lam is not a deal breaker unless it's evident by beating on the panels.

Still looking, If anyone knows of a 02-03 H or XLII in the $300k range

[coreygrubb]

Jerry, there are quite a few out there that fit in those parameters. Do you know the sites to look on ?

[n33d2camp]

It seems that the XL-II panel failures are most prevalent with coaches that are subjected to long stays at the beach

That is not correct Gil, whether the bus is stored inside, outside, west coast, east coast or in between makes no difference.

[garyde]

Corey is correct, most have it from 2000 - 2009 some worse than others and its not if but when it will have to be done. The only cure is rivets and cover panels from prevost. If it's not bad you can just ignore it but down the line of ownership someone will have to step up.

Hi Corey. Can you be more specific. Where are you finding information that all stainless panels will fail. Is this an opinion or have you spoken with Prevost?

[truxton]

I'd sure like to know the source of all XLII's from 2000 to 2009 are going to have lamination failure. That's a pretty broad statement, the source would be helpful or is that an opinion. We aren't going back to the hear say at the Tampa Show? Are we?

Later
bv

[coreygrubb]

Hi Corey. Can you be more specific. Where are you finding information that all stainless panels will fail. Is this an opinion or have you spoken with Prevost?
Gary, That was n33d2camp. I said no one knows the extent of the problem except possibly Prevost.

[n33d2camp]

I have found the problem is not imaginary. It is real, it is extensive and Prevost techs have commented that eventually all XLII will need repairs on the skins. But if you have a problem and even mention the word lawyer watch the reaction.

[coreygrubb]

I believe that what you say is true,was just saying that I didn't say it. Given that it is either the bonding agent (they've switched at least once) or the time/process all are potential for the problem. Forewarned is forearmed. I assume that your 03 CC is an XL11 ? Any signs yet ?

[n33d2camp]

Yes it has problems again. Trying to negotiate at least some help with the cost of repairs so will say no more.

[jbchevy3]

Thanks for the advice, I have decided on a 2001 H3 45 with 150k miles. Are there any issues that stand out with a coach like this? It has OTR air. I know with my CC Intrigue, all CC's had radiator and PTO problems. Are there any problems like that with Prevost that I should look out for on an H3 with 2 slides? I mean mainly the chassis problems if any.

Jerry

[Gil_J]

Jerry,

Was your CC equipped with a 2007+ CAT engine? I know CAT blamed the coach builders for thei problem. Enjoy your H3!

[Seabyrd]

Jerry, Congratulations on your new coach... you didn't mention who the converter is? We love the H... so glad it has the OTR you will love it. Post some pics. Does it have cruisairs or roof airs? Cheers, Larry & Diane

[garyde]

Jerry, with the age and the miles, its important to replace the air bags most likely. The entire air systems should be inspected. The brakes and seals should all be inspected. A full under carrage inspection should be done. Verify the age of the coolant in the radiator and the age of the transmission oil and both types that are being used. Lube and Oil , change all filters. Replace all rubber hoses and belts if possible. All batteries, and tires should be checked for age and wear. The water tank should be sanatized. Check the water pump, Hot water heater,
Wabasto heater. Have the OTR inspected.
Service Generator , coolant for generator, and battery.
Check al inside and outside electrical systems.

These are items which should be done prior to purchasing if possible or worked into the sale price.

[Gil_J]

Jerry, as Gary said a thourough inspection should be performed of both Prevost and converter installed systems. As for replacement, I generally depend on the outcome of the inspection and life expectancy of the serviable items. Air bags, if original, likely should be replaced. However, the blue or green silicon hoses probably only need replaced if visable signs of wear are discovered. Some also suggest replacing the brake diaphrams, or whatever hey are caled, and the Norgren air valves. Of course, if you have an open checkbook, it never hurts to replace more than less.

[Joe Camper]

Whatever bus you end up in be prepared this will probably not resemble anything you have ever done before:)
Do you have a electrical test meter and know how to use it? If not you will.

I remember how it was leading up to getting ours. Didn't matter what anybody said or told me it was gonna happen. Had the "stainless glare of brain" that stems from Mad Prevo Disease.

Ill tell you how ignorant I was. I did not even have a clue what OTR A/C was. Come to find out after ownership the chassis had all the right stuff and how lucky I was to have gotton a good one.

Do not be that guy. I also have met other Prevo motorhome buyers who purchased with the same ignorance who were not as lucky as me you do not wat to end up with that.

Go slow get it right lots to choose from and have a blast thats my advice

and get yourself a good mechanic or if your a good mechanic this may be the most challenging thing you will ever have the opportunity to maintain. Own it 5yr, you will be twice the tech you were when you bought it.

[jbchevy3]

I'm buying the coach from Florida Luxury Coach, does anyone have any experience with them? I'm told the coach has been thoroughly inspected and serviced front to back. They also tell me they will fix anything that breaks for the first 30 days. It is a Featherlite Vantare conversion. Does have OTR air which I'm familiar with because a good friend of mine has an 04 H with OTR air, he also suggested buying one with OTR air. It has cruise airs instead of roof air.
Joe, I do have a test meter and I know how to use it, I even have a tone generator which came in handy on my CC.
I am fairly mechanical since I have raced for 40 years .


My CC did have a Cat C13, but its an 06.

Ill make sure the air bags are checked.

Garyde, how often should transmission fluid be changed?
thanks Jerry

[johnbrowder]

I bought from FLC, and it was a good experience all around. They did a good job of going over the bus, but a couple of issues came up during the 30 days after I had left Sanford. Lon reimbursed me fully and promptly for the needed repairs. His tech is very knowledgable.

Plan to use the coach extensively in the first weeks.

[Joe Camper]

A friend recently sold a Legendary XLIIDS with them and I know he is happy it did not take them long.

Regardless of where you end up I would plan on camping out in it if not on location then in a campground somewhere close and use it for as long as you can but FOR AT LEAST 2 or 3 days and longer if possible. You will be happy you did.

Heck it will take you every bit of 1 day just to familurize yourself with figuring out how to navigate the menu on the inverter remotes and get them to some correct initial peramiters to start and then run the battery bank thru a couple of cycles to see if you have them set right.

Many Vantare have the house a/c 1/2 and 1/2 , 2 cruise air 1 basment air this Vantare has all cruise air? different.

Vantare also wires everything in the coach thru the inverters air conditioners electric heaters everything sept the basement a/c. Then leave it up to the opporators to manage loads.

The trace 4024 inverters carry 35 amp main breakers so your living on 70 amp when you on inverters and you DO NEED to manage stuff from time to time with the intermittin loads but with everything wired thru them you have lots of flexability. IMO this is prefferable design.


Easy to switch inverter bypass switches are also a must. This is IMO very very important

EVERY buyer looking at ANY conversion that does not have inverter emergency bypasses should make the seller explain how to get power to the fridge in an event of an inverter failure. In many buses that proposition is more difficult than you would think.

[coreygrubb]

I'm buying the coach from Florida Luxury Coach, does anyone have any experience with them? I'm told the coach has been thoroughly inspected and serviced front to back. They also tell me they will fix anything that breaks for the first 30 days. It is a Featherlite Vantare conversion. Does have OTR air which I'm familiar with because a good friend of mine has an 04 H with OTR air, he also suggested buying one with OTR air. It has cruise airs instead of roof air.
Joe, I do have a test meter and I know how to use it, I even have a tone generator which came in handy on my CC.
I am fairly mechanical since I have raced for 40 years .


My CC did have a Cat C13, but its an 06.

Ill make sure the air bags are checked.

Garyde, how often should transmission fluid be changed?
thanks JerryJerry, If it's the bus I think it is, make sure on batt and tire dates since your kinda buying at the top. Also, if they put the flooring in, look at it closely. Since we frequently tow a race trailer, we change trans fluid with the rest of the annual. Do you still race, and if so, what ?

[jbchevy3]

Corey, We do still race, Drag Race Top Sportsman, have two cars, My son has been Champ 5 out of last seven years. I was back in 05. Are you familiar with the coach I'm talking about? WHat do you mean by buying at the top? The steer tires are new 365's. The drives and tag are supposed to be 2011 dates and so are batteries. Coach has been repainted, they said the previous owner didn't like the color. Supposed to be no previous damage. I'm told it's a very nice coach, and by pictures appears to be. I will see it Tuesday.

Any other comments or suggestions are appreciated.

Jerry

[jbchevy3]

Another question.....Is there a book value on a Prevost anywhere? I have not been able to find one.

Jerry

[coreygrubb]

Jerry, no book on Prevosts. Strictly market driven similar to high end boats and airplanes. Asking prices all over the board and unless you know somone that will tell you what they paid, its hard to find out what they sold for. What I meant by buying at the top was that the asking price for an 01 is at the top, so that coach better be pretty nice and not require alot put into it right away. We are abouy 90min away from Lon, so if you want some help Tues, let me know.

[jbchevy3]

Corey he says it is nice, it was $329, now it's 299. Which price did you see?

Jerry

[jbchevy3]

I had also looked at an 02 XLII 2 slides, but it was more with no OTR air

[n33d2camp]

Jerry,

Take it to Prevost Jacksonville for a PDI or you will could be in for a rude awakening. If the seller won't allow that, run away.

[jbchevy3]

Do you know the coach, or is that in general with any coach ?

Jerry

[n33d2camp]

I dont know the coach, just offering some advise since you are a first time prevost buyer. The money spent for a PDI by prevost or the converter will be worth every penny.

[Joe Camper]

Corry offered, go for it, let him help. Why not this is the kind of stuff we are all about. It certianly couldnt hurt and you still could do further investigation if you liked it and ran into a hurtle with a initial shake down.

That was a nice offer

[garyde]

I'm buying the coach from Florida Luxury Coach, does anyone have any experience with them? I'm told the coach has been thoroughly inspected and serviced front to back. They also tell me they will fix anything that breaks for the first 30 days. It is a Featherlite Vantare conversion. Does have OTR air which I'm familiar with because a good friend of mine has an 04 H with OTR air, he also suggested buying one with OTR air. It has cruise airs instead of roof air.
Joe, I do have a test meter and I know how to use it, I even have a tone generator which came in handy on my CC.
I am fairly mechanical since I have raced for 40 years .



My CC did have a Cat C13, but its an 06.

Ill make sure the air bags are checked.

Garyde, how often should transmission fluid be changed?



thanks Jerry



Here is a link to Allison Transmissions: Tansynd oil is what I use. I have a transmission retarder and this oil is good for 50000 miles.
http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/transynd.jsp
Check it out.

[rmboies]

I have purchased a couple of Prevost coaches from Florida Luxury Coach--Lon Neuville. These people actually do what they promise to do. Tech support 24/7. Any problems I had were handled quickly & as promised. I would strongly recommend these folks.

[jbchevy3]

Sounds good, looks like I'm dealing with good people. Yes, thank you Corey for that offer. I have a good friend of mine who owns a H3 that's going with me.
Thank everyone for your help. I'll send updates once I take delivery.

Jerry

[coreygrubb]

Jerry, her's a thought. Millenium is literally around the corner from Lon. They are more than capable of doing a PDI.

[Randy Baerg]

Regarding delam on XLIIs I was told the problem was not cleaning the new panels properly before they were installed thats why some coachs have the problem and some not. I have spent 40 years in the Body shop business makes sense that could be the reason.

[n33d2camp]

Most XL2's have it and the problem is Adhesive.

[Randy Baerg]

Does 3M know that?