Another Newbie needing advice from the experienced on buying an older bus.

[Barney]

Greeting's to all of you. I bet many of you have heard my plea time and time again. Thanks.
The wife and I got retired recently, sold our house, 3 cars and most of our belongs in prep for becoming full-timers for awhile.
Temporarily in an apartment, and have been researching and doing homework for months on motorhomes. Sadly we don't have a
lot of money so I set our purchase limit to $120,000. At first we thought buying an older High end plastic coach fit the mission.
We found 40' to 45' tag axles with 450hp cummins and 2 to 3 slides early to mid 2000's year models in our budget. But, the more we
looked at these the more evident father time had taken it's toll. To afford a Prevost in the same budget we got to go even older
(Late 80's to maybe mid 90's), but many seem to be so much better condition than the plastic ones we considered. Today, we think
a Prevost is the way to go, but we are a little overwhelmed on some of the decision items, which is where you come in.
Key items I'd like your advice on:

1. Up until mid 90's all the Prevosts have the 8V92 vs the Series 60 that hit in the mid 90's. Is it really worth maxing out my
budget to get the Series 60 say a 1995 or 1996 model? ( maintenence costs, fuel economy, resale value or desirability)

2. Airconditioning systems, I need someone to really explain this in detail. I'm familiar with roof airs, dash airs, but confused on
the descriptions On the road air, cruise air, basement air, converter air systems and combos of these, plus what powers each?

3. Some coaches ( not many) have propane cooktops and gas/electric fridges, gas sounds like a plus to me, is it?

4. Pecking order of all the converters during the year models I can afford? Are some preferred and others troublesome?
Desirability, resale value, support, parts, service etc?)

I got about 20 more but that's too much for this. If you can help me out, and feel free to throw in other important stuff you'd
advise on I would be truly grateful.

Regards,,
Barney

[garyde]

Hi Barney. I would shoot for the Series 60 if you can find what you like in a Coach. I would make certain to get all of the maintenance records for the coach as well as have the coach inspected by a qualified Prevost Mechanic if possible.
A/C ; I have OTR , which works great in the summer in the south west and south east. Keeps the coach very comfortable.
Propane: Some people enjoy haveing the propane as it is handy when dry camping.
Everyone enjoys the coach they own . If you look at the posts from Rick desilva you will see it s very even for ownership of the different coach Convertors.
Remember, they are all Prevosts.

[coreygrubb]

Barney, being that you are most likely going to be in a mid to late 90's coach, I would look for the following: Series 60 for all the reasons you stated. Given your budget and age of the coach you would be buying, skip cruise and basement A/C. Do not buy a gas/elec fridge. they are troublesome and expensive to repair and replace. These coachs have wonderful gensets and inverters. There are no bad converters, though A/C
type will dictate converter choice. A quick look at some of the sale sites confirmed that there are more than a few coachs 95 or newer within or near your bubget. Those being POG, Prevost Community, RVT, RV Trader, Phil Cooper, E-Bay and RV On Line.

[Pete]

Barney, I sent you a private message. (click on notifications at the upper right side of the forum page) I see you live (I think) in Texas. If I can help in any way, feel free to call.

[Gil_J]

Barney, as stated by others, try to get a series 60. Beyond that you really only need to focus on 3 things; looks, floor plan and budget. All of the other compromises aren't that important. With that said, let me offer my opinions:

- A coach of the vintage you are looking at may use the older refrigerant. If so, realize that as much as some love their Prevost Over-the-Road air, it can be costly to upgrade to the newer refrigerant. Country coach installed their own OTR Air that is similar, but much smaller than Prevost’s and it uses standard automotive components.
- Don’t get too wrapped around the axle on 110VAC air. Rooftops are far less expensive to service, in fact can be replaced for about $1K per unit.
- If you are considering slides and who wouldn’t love to have at least one forward slide, you may have to reconsider. The vintage you are looking at will have aftermarket slides and the coach will be borderline on maximum axle weights (in fact, many are without slides). We went from a quad slide 2006 Beaver 42-footer to a 99 45-foot CC with no slides. It was a big adjustment, but very doable. For us, the biggest downside of no slides is that we can’t really bring my daughter’s family along for over-nighters without putting them in a hotel or tent (maybe, not a bad thing ;-)
- Each converter did things a bit different. The biggest differences are the electrical systems. There are pros and cons to each. The cons aren’t that bad.

Given your tight budget, which isn’t that much different than my own, don’t be bashful about presenting a low ball offer. This is a business transaction that doesn’t need to get personal. I’ve been on both sides of this and as much as it hurt to get a really crazy offer on a past boat, I ultimately accepted the offer. Non-slide coaches are losing popularity and therefore aren’t selling, so yet another reason to consider a non-slide coach. When you’ve found the right coach make sure you factor the high dollar maintenance items. An AGM based house battery bank can cost over $2K and tires $600+ each. Battery life can be all over the map, but consider them questionable after 5 years. Tires will almost always be replaced based on age and not mileage. A 7 year old tire should be replaced. Coach air bags become questionable after 100,000 mile or 10-15 years. They’ll set you back about $1K.

If you do decide to go back to looking at traditional plastic coaches let me suggest that you may likely have a lot more routine and unscheduled maintenance with a 5 year old 20,000 mile plastic coach than you will with a 15 year old 100,000 mile Prevost. I know this is a broad generalization, but one that has certainly held true for me.

Others have pointed you to buying sites, so I won’t do so again. I will suggest that eBay shouldn’t be over looked. If you find a potential coach there, contact the seller and don’t just watch the auction. Auctions can and are often ended early due to outside sales.

[Joe Camper]

OK here is my 2 cents. First off there are a lot of very very nice professionally converted prevo for a lot less than your budget.

A 89 Liberty in nice shape for 35,000 that I recently found is just 1 example.

Yes get the 60 youve penty of monety for that. If you find a 94 chassis IMHO that is a great year because for 1 year only the first year of the new engine it was still coupled to the 5 speed trans and it will for sure also have a jake instead of the trans retarder. I think its a great trans and I also like to be different and that year in drivetrain is unique.

WIN WIN

Number 2 AC I would alwaysfirst and formost be looking for a bus with the OTR A/C or over the road air conditioning and from prevo not converter added stuff that Ill get to in a minuite.

If you loose air conditioning in these in the summer you might as well have blown the motor it will get very uncomfortable. In a vehicle full with redundent systems the 1 system you definatly want on that list is air conditioning.

You wil loose 2 full bays of storage a compramise willing to make even if full timing thats how Id see it.


If you do not choose that engine drivin OTR A/C from Prevo thats fair but my suggestion would be do not EVER buy a bus without OTR A/C combinded with the house side units refered to as "cruiseairs" and here is why.

The cruise airs are like at home the compressor and condensor and cooling fan are in 1 spot (in the bays usually 2 up front and a third in another spot or some converters put all 3 behind the front bumper) and all you have in the cabin is the evaporator coil and a blower. This is nice it can be hidden anywhere in cabinates way more flexibility in the design and they are also very quiet. They are expensive 1000 .for a new condensing unit. You really need to get yourself a good a/c guy most will do more harm than good.

The reason you definatly do not want these without the engine driven OTR A/C on the chassis is on very hot days (and I would add upper 90s) i know thats probsably not too often but when you are driving on pavement that is radiating 100+ degrees the cruise airs can not sufficiantly cool themselves, the condensors, and they preform poorly and sometimes have the potential to shut down when you need them most.


SO if fate has it you choose not on OTR a/c be sure its a coach with roof air. Our bus had OTR A/C and cruise air before we got the OTR on line we had a trip in the heat and on gen and cruise airs and they were not happy units neither were we.

All Libertys have OTR A/C a few marithon most royal most vantare. never saw a CC with it.

Country Coach put a seconed engine driven a/c compressor in addition to the standard dash a/c EVERY bus has dash from the factory. The CC second compressor on the engineIt drives 2 additional evaporators 1 in the kitchen 1 in the bedroom. All the older CC have equipment that is from a manufacturer that is no longer around but there is a company called RED DOT on the west coast that could help put those systems back togeather.I did one it was NOT CHEEP

Marathon had many conversions with the same idea they DID use red dot stuff so if problems occoure on thse that stuff is still available. Nice to keep thigs the same when possible

Basment units not many coaches have this but is not uncommon either. Some put 1 basement unit, these by the way are house side, and it does half the house and then they also have 2 cruise airs 1 front and 1 bedroom that can run off inverter so thats a good combo but a bit more exotic than most. Vantare does it this way very nice for boondocking too by the way.

Some newer stuff probably out of your price range use 2 basment units I know of a 07XLII a Legendary with 2 basment units.

SHHHHHHHHHesh. Lots to absorbe hu.

OK is propane a good idea I think so but you will be hardpressed to find a professionally converted coach in the vintage of the 60 series with it by that point NO conversions will have it.

Pecking Order is I wont respond to that other than to say I have found the guys at Liberty to be the absolute best all around almost by a factor of 2 in coustomer service and even on the very older conversions.

If you are having a problem and know how to use a meter they will chase your problem down with you over the phone almost for sure.

If I buy another I would be looking for a chassis with prevo OTR A/C and Roof Air.

Are you REALLY prepared for the actuall cost of maintence and upkeep on one of these aminals.

Well lets just say now you cant say you havet been warned. Good luck this is worse than a drinking addiction

[Don]

Barney
Buy from a trusted source from one of the POG sponsors or someone like Phil cooper. or have it inspected by Prevost or the converter. If you get it from a private party as I did you could expect to possibly wind up with A lot of suprises as I did. I purchased a 1995 Marathon from A large trucking firm owner in pennsylvania Advertised on ebay as ready to go to California in Dec 2010. I will list A few of the big ticket items that needed to be replaced or repaired. I have seen on other post that you can expect to spend $5000 per year on maintance??? I should be good for A lifetime (g).
Miles are rounded off close to memory
300 miles I had to replace the transmission computer.
1100 miles new brakes, engine cradle and trailer hitch, repair all A/C units, 2 New wheel seals 1 Drive and 1 tag
2000 miles New tires.
2500 miles new 20 KW generator
3000 miles All new batteries Coach House and Generator
4000 miles new fan clutch and repaired leaking roof.
10,000 2 new inverters.
Would I Buy A Prevost over plastic? YES in a new York Second. I can only blame myself for being to hasty and not doing my homework as you are doing.
As of now we have spent 3 winters in Florida been from the east coast to the west coast 2 times loged 30,000 Miles and lived in it at least 50% of the time and we enjoy it very much. Happy hunting and buy Prevost.

[Joe Camper]

Don I could not have put it any better very very good examples of what people do on a regular basis.

This does not have to be the case

[dale farley]

Barney,

Get this bus:

The one you "can afford".
The one you "know is in great condition".
The one you "love the interior layout".

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Barney, check your private messages. Page top right.

JIM

[Barney]

I really appreciate all of you taking the time to help educate me. I'm learning more since joining this group than my previous months
of trying to interpret bits and pieces from other sources. I hope to meet all of you someday and thank you personally ( I'm buying).

[Joe Camper]

Hey Barney I just went to Prevost Stuff do you know of these 2 buses advertized there just making sure.

http://prevost-stuff.com/Prevost_53.htm

http://prevost-stuff.com/1996PrevostAmericanXL_Twomley.htm

just trying to help spend your money

[coreygrubb]

Barney, There is also a '95 Angola 45' XL on Horizon Coach.com for under 100k. Rod Daniels is a straight shooter. Ask the usual questions about maintainance records, tire and battery dates. If all good, don't let mileage bother you. Higher mileage better than too low. If tires and batteries are outdated, remember that you can tire and battery up for under 8k on that type of coach. Take that into consideration when dealing on price.

[Pete]

Corey, where do you buy your tires and batteries?

[coreygrubb]

Michilens through FMCA/Coachworx-Parliament

[coreygrubb]

Barney, Lon at Florida Luxury Coach has a '96 Featherlite H3-45 that I bet can be had within your budget. Might be worth checking out.

[Barney]

Thanks for all the tips. We try to check every source we can find, It's a hunt. Since we are trying to hold out for a series 60 engine, an
limited budget there's only a few year models in the mid 1990's ( 94-95-96-97) that work.
I wonder how many coaches were built in 1995 for example, 50-60 tops is my guess. anybody have any insight?

[coreygrubb]

Barney, There is a '97 Liberty just showed up on POG's used coach site tonight. Might be worth checking out.

[Joe Camper]

Barny I would guess that during those years Prevo sent out aprox 100 empty shells a year to be professionally converted into motorhomes.

Wheres Jack he is usually the souce for production #s

[Gil_J]

Barny, I looked at the listing Corey referenced. Based on the listing data, pictures, age of high dollar routine maintenance items (batteries and tires), and asking price I would consider looking at this coach if in the market. The only thing I don't like is that it doesn't have Prevost or Country Coach OTR air.

[n33d2camp]

Barney,

This is the best private sale 97 Liberty out there and owned by a POG member Jim.
97 Liberty Elegant Lady (http://prevostcommunity.com/sellcoaches.asp)

[jack14r]

Joe,I never researched that far back but I think that it would be around 120-140 a year.

[Seabyrd]

Barney, The only advise I have for you is do not buy an H model without OTR if you plan on using it in the southern states. An H can't be cooled without OTR ... just my 2 cents worth. Good luck shopping.... you will know when you find the one that right for you !

[Barney]

Thanks Gil, I'm on it. It is indeed very nice. I knew including 1997's in my maybe range might be stretching it,
But all I see is asking prices. I really don't have a feel for what fair market value is on these coaches.
This one is darn close and I have tried to contact the seller, waiting on a return call.
One thing I noticed is that they built a wall of mirrors and cabinets right over the windows in the bedroom.( behind head of bed)
Do you see much of that? Seems odd to me.
The education I got from you and others on OTR made me a believer of it's importance, and of coarse, this one doesn't have it.
I'm wandering if I would hate my decision later, buying a coach without it. This one has lots of pros and only the one con of no OTR.
What to do, what to do?????




Barny, I looked at the listing Corey referenced. Based on the listing data, pictures, age of high dollar routine maintenance items (batteries and tires), and asking price I would consider looking at this coach if in the market. The only thing I don't like is that it doesn't have Prevost or Country Coach OTR air.

[dale farley]

Barney, Mirrors are very common in Prevosts, and you will find many entire walls with mirrors. I had one bus without OTR air and one with Country Coach OTR air. Both my busses had an excellent dash air, and that is what I used 95% of the time. I ran my OTR only a few hours in the four years I owned it, but I did not do much traveling in the heat of the summer. If I found a bus that I really wanted and OTR air was the only con, I would buy it and the times I needed more cooling, I would run the generator and the house airs. I think I can accurately say that most Prevost RVs do not have Prevost OTR air, although it is nice to have. If you are traveling all the time in the heat, some form of OTR might be essential, although you should always have the option of running the house airs?

[coreygrubb]

Barney, have you looked at the '98 Royale on RVT from Lincolnshire, Ill ?

[Barney]

Thanks, I had not seen this one. Not sure about a side aisle, but everything else is very close to our needs,wants and budget.
I have left a message to find out more.

Regards,

Barney

[coreygrubb]

Take a close look at the advantages of a side aisle. It's the floor plan that makes the most sense in a non-slide coach and for some unknown reason, fairly rare. Who really wants to look straight through the coach from either end. We looked long and hard to find the right side-aisle coach.

[Gil_J]

I agree with Corey, we too have a side aisle non-slide coach and really like this design.