NEW AND USED PREVOST PRICES?

[dale farley]

I am wondering what the market is really doing as far as used Prevost price? We had a discussion in 2010 about this, and at that time, we thought things may have bottomed out for used buses. I don't think we were right.

It seems as though New Prevosts prices never dropped as much as used ones (percentage wise) during the lowest economic lull. I asume that is because some of the buyers with plenty of money will pay the price regardless.

It does appear that used prices have continued to drop possibly because of tight financing and the bad economy as a whole. Maybe supply and demand also. I see some used ones on websites that have been for sale for a few years, and the seller seems to be holding to a higher price than what would be expected in this market. I think there may often times be a wide range between asking and selling prices? Anyone have any insight as to what is currently going on?

[n33d2camp]

It would appear the delamination issue has effected the XLII market while the XL's hold up a little better.

[garyde]

The new Conversions seem to go higher every year. An XLII was about 1.5 Mil retail in 2003, 10 years later its about 2.1 mil. Even with the steep recession, New coaches went up in price. Maybe not as quickly but they went up. Part of that increase was the Shell Price which has gone up $250,000 over 10 years, and the balance is the convertor with new technologies, Additional amenities ( read; Bells and whistles) and inflation.

The used buses seem to have been bouncing around the bottom for a long while now. Part of that has to do with the quantity of Prevosts for sale, a lot of un loading of assets by people. Additionally, financing was impossible to get for about 3 years for older coaches.


It didnt help that the industry was on its Knees for several years, almost wiping out the entire Prevost conversion Industry . You saw that in the

the Rv industry where many of the top companys just disappeared. Now, only a few exist and fewer make the large RV's.

[truxton]

Dale, I think your aware we got our bus last month and I looked for 6 months. To get somebody to say what they paid or what they sold for is not going to happen. I ran the numbers in my head many sleepness nights wondering if the market was going up or down and what would I have after 4 or 5 years on what buses are being listed for now. Anyone buying or selling a bus is very aware of this forum and it's sponsors who sell buses. I think the sponsors would say they are bottomed out and things are moving. I looked at 8 or 10 buses and all were priced over 500,000, many listed on Prevost Stuff. From what is on the market now I think there are many overpriced buses and some you could make a deal on, it all depends on who's selling it. I couldn't argue with myself anymore on if the bottom was here, go find what you like and try and make a deal. We will never win if your buying or selling. My bus will depreciate 50,000 to 75,000 a year based on what things are being listed for now so I hope we reached the bottom. With out going into details every bus I looked at had room to deal off the listed price. This is just my 2 cents because I just went thru it. We can sleep at night with our purchase and if it's not the bottom, so beit. In any market I'm a firm believer there's an ass for every seat and I would rather pay to much for a good bus than to little for a bad one. (Steve Bennett)

Later,
bv

[Pete]

I see two issues causing the pricing today of both new and used coaches. First we must take into account the value of the dollar, it has declined year by year until it's buying power has diminished (and I am saying this without recent research) to about half what it was 2 decades ago. I think it affects both new and old alike, but I think more so new coaches.

As in most cases, if a used coach is purchased from a dealer the retail price quoted is typically well above the actual sales price, and if you attempt to trade in your coach, the price offered is normally an insult to the person attempting to trade. This is of course good old bartering, but most people do not want to go through the hassle of owning two coaches, while trying to sell the old coach, and eventually submit to the low ball offer, or near the low ball offer to avoid the hassle.

If one is trying to purchase from an individual, the seller seldom or never wants to take a trade, again making the buyer take less for his coach if he sells it himself, if he is trying to sell before buying another coach. Therefore driving down the used prices.

Just my opinion!

[Sid Tuls]

Very well said there Bernie!! The one thing everyone talks about is how they depreciate but I see how much I appreciate mine every time I'm in it and that's a lot .

[Gil_J]

Our coaches are solely for our enjoyment and aren't investments. So, their value will likely always drop as long as the supply exceeds the demand. BTW, the supply for late model coaches will become very short soon given so few new coaches were built.

The real challenge is determining the price can be purchased for. Some are advertised at or near their bottom line using a strategy to get all seriously interested buyers enticed in looking. Others will advertise high leaving significant room for negotiations, and others will advertise high and believe they can sell high. The one's that I don't understand are those that advertise without an asking price. They either don't know the market, which isn't likely, or they believe they have to upsell the coach through conversation getting the buyer excited before announcing the price.

My suggestion is to do a little fishing on pricing throughout your quest for the right coach. If you find a coach of a similiar year and options that you are looking for but don't like it enough to own it you should still try to see what they would take. I've spoken to a couple of owners hat have walked away with some great deals in the last couple years. One bought a low mileage late model XLII so low he could just a full interior remake and still ge ahead. Another bought a 2000 XL with slides for a price that made my own purchase look bad. The bad part was that I had looked at that very coach and didn't consider giving the low ball offer that took it.

The good news is that he RV industry hasn't been hurt as bad at th yachting industry. As the economy began its slide it took me 3 years to sell my boat and at a price would have never thought I would have had to agree to.

One final observation, the high end of the market has not been as impacted as he middle and upper middle class. I'm betting the $750k+ coach market is doing okay.

[Jamie Bradford]

As a friend of mine in college used to say : " You can't put a price on a Good Time "


Jamie

[rfoster]

Sid. That is a great and fitting response. I will use it in the future.

Thanks for thinking!

[Dick in Wisconsin]

I would rather pay to much for a good bus than to little for a bad one. (Steve Bennett)

That is truly a very profound statement and holds true for any high ticket item!

I just hope I don't end up paying "too much for a good bus" that turns out to be a bad one!

[dale farley]

Dick, I don't know that I've seen anyone buy a bus and not do something to it. When I bought my Marathon in 2006, the previous owner had just done almost $40K of repairs and updates to it. I kept it about a year and did a couple thousand of mechanical repairs (shocks, air bags, A/C, etc.). Fortunately the market was much different at that time, and I made a few thousand when I sold the bus a year later. I made up for the profit on that one when I sold my second one! Bottom line is you have to try to purchase the best overall value that you can find and know that it will be a depreciating asset. The option is to purchase a newer plastic coach, never have the experience of owning and driving a Prevost and suffer the accelerated depreciation. NOTHING DRIVES LIKE A PREVOST.

[n33d2camp]

I'm a newbee here, but also read other sites and forums and what I don't understand is why the stainless panel problems with the XLII doesn't get any discussion when it drastically effects the coach value, the subject of this post. Either the seller or the buyer is going to have to deal with it and it seems like most hide their heads in the sand and hope it goes away. I havehe same problem, prevost might fix the panel, but I will eat about 20 thousand in paint work.

Does this not concern any of you and the value of your bus? My bus value is now in the dumpster unless I sell to someone who is unaware. Are buses now being flipped quickly by dealers and brokers to get rid of the stainless problem to buyers that don't have a clue? Seems that could be what's going on.

[Gil_J]

I'm guessing prospective buyers that are new to Prevosts don't have a clue of the problem. When I was looking at Prevosts just over a year ago this site and other Prevost focused sites never made it to the first page of my searches. I only discovered this site after purchasing my coach and it was the seller that told me. I suspect, and hope that's not the case any more. When I look at the Prevost focused sites now it looks like the delamination problem is a relatively new topic of discussion. When I was looking I stumbled across a highly respected expert on Prevost conversions. He provided invaluable information on the differences between converters and the different years of 60 series equipped XLs. I didn't ask about XL-IIs or Hs and he didn't offer any XLII warnings. That too suggests the delamination problem wasn't a big problem or widely known just over a year ago.

Based on what I've read it looks like the delamination problem is not related to the adhesive used but rather a failure of the metal treating process of the frame or an interaction between the frame coating and the adhesive. It also appears more prevalent with coaches that spend a lot of time near salty air environments that would be encoutered next to the ocean. Based on the information I've read it would appear as though Volvo is distancing themselves from the Prevost Car problem. If this problem only affects motor coaches and only a select few motor coaches, Volvo may be self justifying this as an owner or converter problem. Of course that makes no sense (based on what I've read to be the failure). It simply means most coaches and fewer buses don't spend a lot of time in a sea spray environment.

For me, I'm glad I have a riveted coach,

[dale farley]

There is one thread that Ed started in May 2012 http://forum.prevostownersgroup.com/showthread.php?6364-XL2-panel-delamination that covers the subject of delamination rather indepth. I am sure it is much easier to push these topics to the back of your mind and hope you are not the one it happens to. I recently made a post about getting the top end of the Series 60 engine checked around 100K, and most don't like to think about that one either because of the uncertainty.