Overall length in California

[jello_jeep]

I was chatting with a CHP officer today (no I wasn't getting a ticket), and asked him about the overall length law not being applied on primary interstate designated routes.

He assured me that no matter what freeway or road you were on, the 65' limit applied, and if you are found to be over 65', they would be hanging paper on you.

He added you could get an overlength / weight permit, but it would be just like a truck getting one, would be from point A to point B, and might require pilot cars etc. ( A PAIN).

I asked him point blank about the federal law taking priority over state law on a federal route. His reply was,

"If you got caught with a pound of cocaine in your bus, even though there is a federal law that was applicable and it was arguably on federal land, they would arrest you for violating the California Penal Code" (even if the federal law was more lax).

Hope this may help clarify the question!

[Ray Davis]

Thanks for the clarification. I know we all kind of discussed this the other night, and several believed that CHP couldn't ticket you on a interstate freeway. I found that one hard to believe.

Your post confirms what I'd always thought!


PS: Jeff, I hope you safely made it out of California with that trailer!!!!

[jello_jeep]

Maybe you could get a plaque just like the "Private Coach" one, and have it say Overall length 64' 11 3/4":D :D

[garyde]

Next time you get a ticket for such a matter, let the officer know you will be going to court to fight the citation, that might give him pause, because he has got to show up on his day off to testify. keep in your coach any and all legal positions, papers, Federal laws to bolster your arguement. Gary

[jello_jeep]

Gary, I respect your position and understand what you are saying. And for what its worth, I think it should be ok to pull a longer rig on the road. However I also think fireworks should be completely legal, and gun control is a crock. You can add the seatbelt law to the list too. So that being said, it really doesnt matter if I like it or not, its against the law here in the republic of California :)

As far as the dialouge with the patrolman, you have to ask yourself what your objective is. It can really only be two things I can think of.

A) You don't want to get a citation.

B) You don't care if your get one, you want to prevail in court.

If you don't want to get a ticket, telling the patrolman you intend to fight the ticket won't likely give him pause at all, and will likely be perceived as a challenge (of sorts). Trust me, the decision as to if he is going to write you a ticket will be made in milliseconds after those words escape you.

As to the day off theory, there is a specific spot on a CHP ticket where they have to list their days off, plus they stack their court dates on to specific days to avoid overtime and always having the officer in court. So it does not really matter to them whatsoever. You will be on the same day as many others.

As to dragging out stacks of documents as you are stopped along the road, unless you have a specific exemption in the California Vehicle Code in your hand, you are out of luck. They are not going to take the time to read federal guidelines and case law, that is what the court is for. (Attornys have to make the big bucks, right)?

Your best odds at not getting paper is to crack the largest, most gregarious smile you can muster, and be honest. If that includes the fact you didn't know whatever it is you were stopped for was illegal, and you will never do it again then feel free to offer that up, but be sincere. You might get lucky.

Fact is it is currently illegal in California, sans having a permit which I think all agree is not viable.

The best thing to do, is exactly what is being done, get behind a group like FMCA that has an attorney or two (making more big bucks) and get the law changed!

Like I say, don't get me wrong on this, I would like to see a longer max limit, we are on the same side. But arguing roadside with a patrolman will not serve you well as they are powerless to change the law, but sworn to enforce it.

[merle&louise]

Let's take a poll:

How many times have any of us driven thru CA while being over the 65' limit?

Now how many tickets have any of us received for being over the 65' limit from CHP?


Jeff Bayley, did you get a ticket when you picked up your trailer and drove thru CA?

How about the CA POG residents; Mike, Kevin, Ray, Harry, Ken Zitter, Jello-Jeep, Steve, matsprt, Art, Gary (Gary rarely tows a car) >> have any of you guys received citations?
Sorry if I left anyone out: I still don't know everyone in POG.

Also, how about Peter & BrianE up in Oregon & Washington - Have you ever received a citation driving thru CA?

I have traveled thru CA for about 15 days total over a two year period; no tickets. I know that someone has probably been cited; I would just like to know the likelyhood of it happening!

I agree with supporting FMCA and other organizations in trying to have the law changed. IMO, it is a foolish law; it's o.k. for a MH or bus to tow if the combined length is 65' but not 68'. What possible problems could arise from an extra 3 feet. Come on! This is just foolish.

Sorry for getting a little worked up; I'd just like to know what are the odds of getting a ticket!

[lewpopp]

Mr Jeff Bayley scoffed at all of the tickets he received in NYC. Hell, he'll probably lay down on the interstated with his sleeping bag and prove to the CHP that he has no fear.

Write me a book, big boy. Or maybe just an essay.

Lew

[Jon Wehrenberg]

If CA is to get the message, perhaps personal letters to the CA legislature from an overwhelming number of motorhome owners stating they will boycott the state and spend their money elsewhere until the laws change will get the job done.

My only fear is the CA legislature is as dumb as the NY legislature that continues to watch the exodus of businesses and hard working successful people who have told them where they can stick their excessive taxes.

[garyde]

Warren, your right on several points, I just do not like how California treats The RV folks. Laws are made to be questioned and protested if nothing else. I come from Idaho originally, and I have a natural aversion to Stupid laws. California used to be a great State, now its a disfunctional State with too many Laws and Regulations. Most laws are created in this State because some one or some group has an issue with another group or interest. It rarely has anything to do with Safety.
So, the CHP are only the foot soldiers implementing what the boneheads in Sacramento make up.
You know, the law states right now we can not even leave the Freeway with a 45 footer except to get Fuel. We are not allowed down side streets or on surface roads. How are we supposed to get to our home? Or ANY PLACE ELSE IN THE STATE? Gary

[jello_jeep]

Well, California has a lot of crazy laws for sure, and more crazy taxes. I was born & raised right cheer, and so its home. After retirement (again) and when my wife is retired, (four more years) we will be free to move about to more tax free diggins too :) Preferably with EZ gun laws, and lots of FIREWORKS!

Gary, what part of ID are you from? Why did you leave?? I have visited there a couple times and loved it!

As to the poll, I don't have any combination that is over length, so have never had a problem. The majority of my travels have been with a pickup and a 30' 5er. Just got the bus, but mine is 40, and I plan to tow a Rubicon with it, so I am cool.

I would like to tow a trailer with one someday though!

[garyde]

Hi Warren. I came here some 48 years ago as a Child, but I have spent most of my summers over the years in McCall ,Idaho where I was born. I have a Ranch there and get back as much as I can. My wife was born here in SB as well as our 4 children. As much as I love Santa Barbara, (I own several businesses here) , I stuggle with what California has morphed into. Gary

[Jeff Bayley]

Tuga-

I'm still stuck here working on the lights and brakes still. I'm at approximatley 75 feet. Haven't left CA. yet but have gone 30 miles or so on surface streets w/o a ticket but that is very little. I'm on borrowed time I'm sure. Just "going for it" as you said.

Lew- Writing a book eh ? What are you saying? Are you saying my posts are too long? Yes. I know. I'm a motor finger.

As regards scoffing at the NY parking tickets, yes that is true but those are not moving violations. You can get a jillion of them without it going against your points, insurance, etc. Curious if the overall length ticket would be a moving violation or not. Warren ?

Regarding the post about telling the cops your going to fight the ticket. Dido on that. They get paid to show up in court and the "system" stacks their tickets on the same day. If you ever go to traffic court you'll notice that your cop also happens to be deffending his citations against multiple drivers in that same court session also (so I've heard). Telling them you'll fight the ticket only adds fuel to the fire and puts you in a power struggle your sure to loose. Playing dumb..... the better stradegy for sure ....... "Is threre a problem officer?". Of course I like flicking a booger on the cop if that doesn't work. If the video camera is running on the partrol car (aren't they always?) you could be the first person to be on Craziest Police Chasses Caught on Tape. Hey, that would be good for me. I wonder what kind of speed and conditions I need to get this thing into a power slide. Let me watch the movie Speed one more time to pick up some driving tips first. Need to do that in LA before I leave So Cal for sure.

I've found the cops to be VERY forgivng, polite and everything else that they ARE NOT when I'm in a car. My theory (and it's only a theory) is that they assume you have attny's and such and resources (i.e. money) to fight back if you choose. So the CONCEPT (which may only exist in the figment of my imaginaion I admit) of ........."you'll never work in this town again"....or....." when I get finished with you, you'll spend the rest of your career as a meter maid"..........well, if it ever was going to work or enter into their mind, this (the stopping of a high end coach) might be the time. I have to assume that the reason for the increased polite-ness, as compared to my automobile stops, has some bearing on what I'm driving. Would love to hear others take/comments on this.

I went to traffic court once and was able to lift my file off the desk of the prosecutor when he turned his back; in the fourier, not inside the courtroom. Without a copy of the citation (with my signature) they had to throw it out. I don't recommend "trying this at home" but it really keeps your blood running if you want to try it. And I guess it adds a half a chapter to my book that Tuga said I should write now that I think about it. I did that before I got the bus though so I don't think it counts. Cancel that chapter.

[matsprt]

I hear all the complaints about Kalifornia and it's overall length law for buses (45 feet) towing trailers (not to exceed 65 feet). Can someone tell me what the Federal Law is ?? Is it more generous ??

While doing some research I find that many states mimic Kalifornia for overall length (65 feet) of bus plus tow or trailer.

FYI, someone asked about anyone that had actually been cited in California for over length. I spoke with Karl Blade (of Newell infamy) and he told me he had been cited in California outside Blythe CA on I-10. And yes, he was WAY over length. He found it interesting that he was not ticketed for the coach being over length (it was, by a noticeable amount) but only the combination. He did not protest too loudly.

Michael

[garyde]

Jeff. From what I have read, there are just a couple of freeways where the CHP is watching closely. Hwy 10. Hwy 40, and maybe Hwy 15. All leaving California.

[Jeff Bayley]

Gary or others- I wonder how concered I need to be trying to leave CA. I can't leave to the West without a barge. Should I depart under cover of darkness at 2am to put the odds in my favor ? I wonder.

I've heard the COPS can ticket you OR they could insist that you not move and make alternate arrangements such as calling another tow vehicle to move your trailer or paying to have it towed. For most, this is a theoritcal scenario but for me it's not. Of course I'm going for it either way but all the talk has me wondering what the risk is. I feel like I'm planning a prison break. My gut feeling is that, while clearly illegal in length, the chances of getting stopped or ticketed is low while I'm making a break for the border. Jinx.

Should I wear a poncho and sombraro to make myself less noticeable ?

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Where have I seen that trlr. before, someware on this site? Nice. The height has to be close to max. too hu? If you ever run out of room with that you got too much stuff. Jeff, what is the empty weight on that trlr.?

Looks like youll be raising the roof on the bus to get it to match the trlr hu:rolleyes:

[Just Plain Jeff]

Got it on good 'authority,' that you cannot expect the CA laws to change. The last time around on this topic was the agreement between the CA DOT and legislators that the law was passed with understanding that it would never come up for discussion again. Period.

That was the deal that was struck.

So, don't believe that it is about to change any time soon. I don't know why CA has come down so hard on this issue, it isn't as if there aren't enough roads in the state, but there you go.

In Florida, you can triple tow. I have seen business class haulers with a fifth wheel behind and then the boat. Now that's nuts IMHO.

[truk4u]

This may help with the Fed length question...

Overall vehicle length
No federal length limit is imposed on most truck tractor-semitrailers operation on the National Network.

Exception: On the National Network, combination vehicles (truck tractor plus semitrailer or trailer) designed and used specifically to carry automobiles or boats in specially designed racks may not exceed a maximum overall vehicle length of 65 feet, or 75 feet, depending on the type of connection between the tractor and trailer.

[win42]

Jeff: If I were you I would sneak out of town on Intst. 8 toward Yuma, AZ. Plan on hitting the suspect areas early in the morning just as the Donuts come out of the fryer and the Coffee shops open up. I had breakfast in Blythe one morning about 7:30 and there was at least 6 CHP cars parked out front. They were there before we arrived and still there when we left. Interstate 8 is usually a quiet route with no town of size at the border.
Please put me down for a first addition of your new book. Hook up with Ben in Florida and I'm sure you two could come up with a best seller. " Life in the Million Dollar Coach Lane "
Good Luck and Gods speed.

[rfoster]

Senore - I drive your bus, I clean for Senoir Jon, but he not let me drive,
616

My Amigos say you not need trailer, just Texan Pick up truck:
617
no problem

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Pancho, otherwise known as the King of Bling does a fairly good job, but boy is he slow.

[merle&louise]

I am in the process of getting a copy of the FEDERAL law that pertains to the combined legal length of a motorhome towing a trailer or a car or truck.

My cousin is a district judge in Baton Rouge, and he is working on getting the information. He says that state law can not supersede federal law on a federal highway, i.e. the Interstate. State law only applies to state highways.

I will post the FEDERAL law a.s.a.p. and those who are interested can print it and keep a copy in the bus. :cool:

[bill&jody]

there's a list of state limits at http://www.aaa.com/aaa/Traveler/ITT910.pdf

just an fyi, not fishing for a flame.....
wmm

[jello_jeep]

I think some of the confusion comes from this principal

http://vsw.fhwa.dot.gov/qa/qa.jsp?category=23%20CFR%20658.13#S0-62

The intention is clear to make the "NN" (national network) a network with common requirements so interstate commerce can go on. However when you get to RV's read this..

http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/publications/size_regs_final_rpt/index.htm#rv

It would appear to me that this is telling you that federally mandated minimums do not apply as they don't consider an RV to be a "CMV". Hence all the "Private Coach" emblems so its clear you don't have to stop at scales and commercial vehicle check points, have a commercial license,, etc.

Just my .02 ;)

[bill&jody]

so, the "private coach" emblem IS more than just decoration, no?
where is the recommended source for spiffy PC emblems?

wmm

[MangoMike]

It's my understanding that the PRIVATE COACH emblem helps you the most at Toll Booths when some of the "takers" try to Greyhound charge you.

mm

[bill&jody]

that would explain the $26 toll i paid. :-(
i now have a smart pass, registered to bus and trailer combo. smart pass told jod that RV/non-CMV are supposed to get automobile rate. i wonder if she was confused.

so, where?

ps. MM- its thrusday (i think) - shouldn't you be tending the buffet line/corona girl instead of playing on POG?

[jello_jeep]

Try here

http://www.marathoncoach.com/boutique/index.cfm

[MangoMike]

Although it's Thursday I'm in the car heading for SC. No bus this trip. The good news is Mango Donna is driving and I'm online w/ my aircard. Boy this is GREAT.

I've told the boys I need a pix tonight of Corona Kelly so we can update the site.

Mike

[bill&jody]

thanks JJ.
now that i think about it, the PC emblem is usually seen by the door on the starboard side, as opposed to being under the drivers window on the port side. MM, you goin' thru the toll booth backwards or am i confused?

(MM-you goin' to myrtle beach? if you get to the far SE corner of SC, theres a good place to stop outside savannah recommended by K&E.)

cheers,
wmm

[MangoMike]

Bill,

I think you're right it's only on the passengers side. Well that shoots my theory. I'll come up with another line of bs, just give me a few moments.

mm

[Denny]

Unless a flat fee has been established by the governing body of that road, bridge, etc, the charges are usually based on weight, not whether it is a commercial vehicle or private vehicle. The more you weigh the more you pay.

Denny

[Jeff Bayley]

I'm the guy trying to make the jail break from CA if/when I ever get the trailer loaded. I don't have anything relevant to chime in with. I just thought I would practice making a post that wasn't too long and bored people to tears.

I did it !

[jello_jeep]

Nice job Jeff! A masterful short post :)

I would leave under cover of deep darkness, plan it for when there is no full moon, and make sure you have a tailwind!

[jello_jeep]

thanks JJ.
now that i think about it, the PC emblem is usually seen by the door on the starboard side, as opposed to being under the drivers window on the port side. MM, you goin' thru the toll booth backwards or am i confused?

(MM-you goin' to myrtle beach? if you get to the far SE corner of SC, theres a good place to stop outside savannah recommended by K&E.)

cheers,
wmm


Bill, you could probably put on on the port side, but then it would be backwards. :)

Sorry, couldn't resist !

[rfoster]

Bill - Mango- The blingmobile has private coach emblems both sides!

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Rodger how is it your on line making posts and you dont show up on the whos on line page? VERY SNEEKY Do you think I can borrow that hat? I think its the hat.

[rfoster]

Joe: I am only guessing here but it could be cause I have to jump on and off sometimes to work a little in between times.
619

There is one on the drivers side just about like it except the letters run correct.

[Gary & Peggy Stevens]

I'm the guy trying to make the jail break from CA if/when I ever get the trailer loaded. I don't have anything relevant to chime in with. I just thought I would practice making a post that wasn't too long and bored people to tears.

I did it !


HOHUM,,,,, You almost did it :D

Gary

[merle&louise]

The following is an email from my cousin, Edward "Jimmy" Gaidry.


Tuga: I am sending you in info I obtained from Tropper Mitchell. If you want I can get you a copy of the La. Statutes. I am still looking for a federal statutes that would say something. This is a good start. Merry Christmas and may God bless you, Karen and the family. Jimmy



-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph.Mitchell@dps.la.gov [mailto:Ralph.Mitchell@dps.la.gov]
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 11:10 AM
To: Edward Gaidry
Subject: Re: Hwy Regulation




State Statute mirrors the Federal requirements and they are enforced on a State level.. LRS 32:382 states the length of a single vehicle (RV) cannot exceed 45 feet. The length of the trailing unit shall not exceed 30 feet.

This would be the standard lengths in most states although some others may allow for longer. All the length statutes are in 32:382 to 32:385.

The following is from LRS 32:282

Sportsmen coaches or vehicles obviously used solely for recreational purposes and registered therefor may tow a combination of no more than two vehicles and shall not exceed seventy feet in total length.

There seems to be a conflict: RV 45 + Trailing unit 30 = 75' total length

Later in the Revised Statues it is stated that no more than two vehicles shall not exceed seventy feet in total length.

Looks to me like since 70 is the lesser of the two lengths; California and other states can not legally enforce the 65' length.

Stay tuned!