Comments on Angola Coaches

[Will Garner]

My wife and I are considering purchase of a 1993 Prevost conversion by Angola Coach. I would like to hear any comments from other Prevost owners, both past and present, with Angola conversions on the quality of work done by Angola.

Thanks in advance for your response to this posting.

[MangoMike]

Hi Will,

Others will chime in I'm sure. I seriously looked at a Angola during my search and liked what I saw. I hesitated due to the fact it was my first coach, and first motorhome, so I felt I needed max. support. Knowing what I know now, I would purchase an Angola or Royal if the price was extremely right as I feel confident I could tackle almost any issue.

If this is your first Prevost I think I would go with a converter that can offer you all the support you need. My 2¢.

There is a company out there that has knowledge of the Angolas, I can't recall their name right now, but somebody will.

Good luck and you made the right choice in joining POG.

Mike

[Jon Wehrenberg]

That was the time period when they were going through some ownership transitions. I don't know if that affected their quality, but if the coach had any issues they would certainly be worked out by now. We knew several Angola owners and they were very happy with their coaches and Angola.

That year of coach is not likely to have any components or systems that would be challenging to service as far as the house portion, and the Prevost will not be any problem at all.

It should represent a good buying opportunity because the market usually undervalues a coach whose converter is out of business.

[Just Plain Jeff]

Hi Will: Don't listen to the two who have already posted. They are Liberty guys, so well, y'know.

We actually had a 1989 Angola. It was our first coach. It was lovingly cared for by the original owner who was 82 when he traded it. He had just gotten remarried to a woman about 45, so I figured, "Hey, gotta be something here."

Angola, prior to 1994, was one of the better small coach companies in the midwest. They were family owned, putting together 6-8 coaches a year. their idea was was to build a conversion which did not interefere much with the basic Prevost chassis, to keep it simple but top notch. We never had a single major problem after the bumps in delivery. (More on that later). It had a factory paint job, was a 5-rib chassis (tall) and drove very well. It had a tile floor, laminate interior with a massive Bass panel right up front which was more interesting than most of which is on TV these days. As far as the conversion itself was concerned, about the only things I could complain about were that it was not well insulated in the ceiling and it had the %%^&* Espar diesel heaters as the only interior heat source. They were awful, parts almost impossible to obtain and when they worked it dried out the coach on the inside while dripping diesel outside. (Bad). We looked into a Webasto retrofit from Vehicle Systems and were looking at about 18K to do that so didn't.

From the shell point of view, and with the OTR air/8V92's in general, at about 150,000 miles, or so it seems, you need to replace the D/N50 alternator. This is a big deal if you are paying someone else to do it. It's a 3-phase, camshaft driven alternator which is bolted to the front of the engine. Last I heard, Prevost charged $2300 for the part itself, plus labor. As it is lubricated from engine oil, it is important that it not leak. Ours had to be replaced, but was paid for by Angola as part of the delivery deal.

In 1994, the founding family sold Angola to some local car sales guys who had visions of, well, anyway, big ideas. They cranked up production, over valued trades to generate new coach sales and wound up closing the company down in about 2001. All the remaining inventory was taken over by Volvo Commercial Credit and sold at auction. The remains of the company were then bought by AAC (Angola Acquisition Corporation) which itself went defunct. A charter company in Madison, Wisconsin, now called Pharaoh Coach, got the drawings and paperwork from Angola and hear they are helpful to Angola owners. The good employees and conversion wizards went to American Coach (another victim of conversion disease) and now they are at Panterra Coach back near Angola. They are good, smart people and love to help when they can.

As the systems in the Angolas were pretty straightforward, they are easy to work on and, if you get one in good condition, would likely serve you very well. One of the nifty things about the Angolas is that they often had kitchen lighting which flooded the area with bright, even light so you could actually see what you were doing.


Well, too much babble here, but that's what we know. Welcome aboard!

The avatar picture by my name is NOT the Angola. It is what would happen if I started to work on any bus, new or used. There are those who can work on buses and those who shouldn't. I am a shouldn't.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Will (and all other potential owners),

Regardless of the age or converter whenever you buy a coach you need to be fully aware of its condition. None of us has ever bought a coach without having something wrong, or go wrong. They are complex and just because of all the systems there are going to be issues.

But there is a whole lot that you can do to protect yourself against a lot of expenses and surprises. First, make sure the coach has records, receipts or some evidence it has had ongoing scheduled maintenance. Don't accept the owner's or dealer's word. No proof? Then assume your first expense is to bring the entire coach up to its starting point. That includes all fluids and filters, including the engine, transmission and generator.

At the very least make sure you know the age of the brake chambers, and if not include them in your thinking about bringing the coach up to the starting point.

Then consider the items that have a calendar life. Tires are good for about six year regardless of tread depth. Batteries have a five year life. Both are predicated on proper maintenance. the lives are shortened if the tires or batteries have been abused.

Spend the money and have the codes pulled for the engine and transmission. As the technician to review any open codes and give you a sense of the history. If an engine or transmission has a history of operation over temperature for example it is suspect.

Visually look the entire coach over. Include the underside in the inspection. Look for wet spots. Nothing should be wet or have an accumulation of oil or grease. Look for corrosion, and look for things like brake pad or brake lining thickness. Check all fluid levels including the differential and the hubs.

The interior should be clean, and relatively free of rattles. There will be some, but this is not a conventional motorhome. Regardless of miles it should go down the road fairly quietly.

Operate every single switch and system. Don't just turn something on, but operate it. If you want to check the AC units, turn on the heat. Or the reverse is true also. Operate the thermostats. Check the condition of the filters. An owner that does good maintenance is likely to keep the AC or heating system filters clean.

Ask questions if something does not seem right. There are a ton of questions asked about inverters so don't be afraid to get an explanation of how things work, and then verify things if you can.

Things like carpet, blinds, upholstery, etc are easily changed. If you love the coach but not the colors don't worry too much because the coach itself is what is important. The soft goods are all easily changed. JDUB posted pictures of his new carpeting and upholstery about a year ago and the coach ended up looking like new.

It is a big deal buying one of these coaches and there are some great ones out there and there are some dogs. It is your job to not end up with the dog.

[Jeff Bayley]

Will- My first coach was the 1994 Angola that I bought about 3 years ago. It was my first motor home. I upgraded ( I thought) to a 1997 Royal. After moving into the Royal (I’m a full timer) I missed the Angola so much that I took it off the market, moved back into it and put the Royal on a consignment lot in FL for sale. The storage and floor plan on the Angola was so much better than the Royal even though it was 3 years older of a coach. Plus, I had customized the Angola with a really good sound system in the front and a 42” HD NEC brand TV in the bedroom. I’ve since customized the Royal the best I can but the floor plan has not allowed enough revisions to satisfy me the way the Angola did. One example are the automatic pocket doors on the Angola instead of the manual ones that you have to latch / lock on this Royal when you travel. I think the automatic pocket doors are nifty. The overhead lighting fixture in the kitchen that was commented on prior is very unique to Angola and works well to light the area. I miss it. Angola had built in toaster and coffee maker. Neither on the Royal.

In both cases of the Angola ,and subsequently the Royal, I spent between $10k-$15k on getting everything working right even though (on the surface) everything appeared to function. Just when I got everything perfect on the Angola, I switched to the Royal and had to start the process all over again. I figured I would keep trading up on the “nibble my way to the top” program but after this Royal (my 2nd used coach), I don’t want to get into another new coach anytime soon because I finally got everything working and I know my way around the bus now and I don't want to repeat the process a 3rd time. My feeling is that if you can buy a coach from someone that lives in it full time, your more likely to avoid a bunch of small annoyances that you’ll never know about until you spend time in it. If someone wasn’t using the coach very much or not at all (and hense the reason for selling it) they could honestly not know about the things that have gone stale. Weekend warriors (in general) are more likely to just live with errors on the bus I think. Exceptions apply of course.

I’m back in the Royal now because the engine in the Angola blew up on me after I moved back into it. I was on my way to NY from FL and in Savannah GA. I heard a noise that made made me go “Ummmm, that didn’t sound very good”. It was the sound that is made when a piston comes apart and blows a hole in the block of the engine and it can be heard distinctly from the drivers seat where you otherwise only hear whisper from the engine in the rear. A dreadful noise that I hope I never hear again unless I want to do another one eyebrow Spoc impression. Had the bus towed to Detroit Diesel nearby where it still sits waiting for a new engine. Detroit wants $30k for a remanufactured engine; parts and labor. I thought that was too much and I’ve finally found a low mileage used engine that I'm comfortable with which I can have installed for $15k parts and labor. I’m just about ready to have the work done (not at the Detroit Dealer). If someone wanted to buy my Angoal in advance of my dong the work, they may prefer the factory engine for the extra $15k which would come with a 3 year, 100k mile warranty. Personally, I’m comfortable with the condition of the used engine even if I keep the coach for myself.

If your shopping for a bus in the 94 to 95 year range, understand this new found factoid that I’ve uncovered. Those early model series 60’s engines had a wrist pin defect in them which is why mine failed. Detroit replaced a number of engines evidently for free up to 250,000 miles. Most of these were no doubt commercial trucks since motor homes mostly sit and don't manifest the problem for years. My 94 with only 75k miles as a good example of how this defect has not surfaced for 13 years. I put a posting regarding this issue on this site and John W replied by saying"

........“To the best of my knowledge DD at the time took the position that they would repair or replace only those that failed and not do a recall. I was told by a mechanic if the engine made it to 250,000 miles it was unlikely to fail The problem was the supplier of pistons screwed up.” ....... You can find the thread on this by searching for "piston" or go to my profile and search for all post started by me and it will turn up.

You (and anyone else buying) would be well advised to somehow check the serial number of an early series 60 engine with Detroit to see if it fell within the production group that has the problems. In the case of my coach of course, the issue will be solved by either the used engine I've found (2000 model) or a factory remanufactured engine. I supect that there are other coach owners that have this defect surface evntually also.

One last comment on the issue of Angola being “out of business”. You can still talk to the people at Panterra Coach (in Indiana) which has the same people from Angola as mentioned above. The owner at Pharoh Coach in WI doesn’t know anything about specifics on the Angola coaches anymore than any of the other converters. His name is Ted and he is not inept, it’s just that (as stated above) he bought the drawings and intellectual property so to speak but I don't think he's done anything productive with it. The most useful thing he has is probabley some left over remnants of interior laminate for Angolas in case anyone needs some to match their old Angola. As stated in a prior post above, the brain trust from Angola went to American Coach and now Panterra Coach. I have been to both of these locations (Pharaoh in WI and American before it closed in MI). Ted at Pharaoh did not have the documentation (build sheet etc) for my particular coach which I was hoping to collect. When I drove up to American in MI, several of original craftsmen recognized the coach right away and called out the original owners name who they recalled building it for. They were able to answer any and all questions I had and I got a few bits and pieces serviced on the coach there.

As long as you can reach people by phone that know the coach (you can at Panterra I’m sure) it doesn’t matter that Angola is “out of business”. The service managers name at American was last name Wolf. I suspect he is at Pantara now.

So what if you have a current converter and you have a glitch (you will). Unless you have the issues arise when your within striking distance of Liberty (fill in the blank with any other converter of your choice), you’re not going to get them to fiddle with it anyway are you ? Correct me if I'm wrong here people. It’s pretty challenging to get anyone to work on the converter stuff in general. Here’s a few examples of what I’ve heard in the last 2.5 years. Now bear in mind that I love coach ownership and the positives far outweigh these negatives but here goes anyway:

1) Washer and Dryer had issues. They are standard household units . Went through yellow pages in Dallas, TX to find appliance repair. Kept hearing “Oh, we don’t work on motor homes”…………….”But it’s a home type unit your used to”………………”We don’t work on motor homes”.
2) Toilet in my Royale had issues. Manufacture of toilet alive and well but impossible to find a dealer of their parts that was either capable or willing or in my area at the time (NY) to rebuild the toilet. Had to do it myself in the end. Pain in the rear. Toilet works great now and after doing it myself, I can see that it would not have been done right if someone else had done it.
3) Espar heaters on the Angola weren’t working right (you don’t find this out until your in cold weather using it all the time). Found marine dealer (a lot systems are the same as marine sytems on these coaches) and they actually got me fixed up w/o issue. Point being that Liberty, Marathon or any of the others couldn’t have helped me in Seattle where I was anyway or could they ?
4) Satellite system. Ripped the obsolete one off the Angola and put a brand new in-motion. Works great. The Royal is a different story. Continues to give me fits. Not as old of gear as the Angola (97 instead of 94). I have been replaceing components of it and trying to make it gel but it looks like it needs a total replace soon before I tear my hair out. Motosat dealers not in plentiful supply and try finding one that knows about motor homes even more scarce. I know this one guy that does satellites on motor homes for a living and owns a Prevost and this is the ONLY guy that is competent (that I have been able to find) in the whole country as regards Prevost systems related to the dishes. Going to see him in Palm Springs CA first of next week. (I’m in my coach in CA now). If anyone reads this and can recommend somene other than Girardo please tell so I have an alternate.
5) Getting storage / floor plan on this Royal revised. Nearly impossible to find a carpenter willing to tear into a motor home. Finally bumped into one by accident that happened to be a motor home owner. I paid his asking price for the work of $2,200 which was cheap and the work came out great but he says he’ll never work on another one again unless it was his.

(Continued on next post. I’m over my character limit)

[Jeff Bayley]

I got this message "The text that you have entered is too long (10512 characters). Please shorten it to 10000 characters long" I coldn't bear to delete my work so here's the rest.

.........This list goes on but you get the idea. Now, one HUGE advantage you have is being on POG and getting helpful advise from people with too much time on their hands or in my case insomnia. God I wish I had access to the wealth of knowledge on this site for the last 2.5 years. I only just discovered it. The initiation ritual sort of sucked. I'm still using a donut when I drive.

2:30am for me and the typing has worked to make me sleep. I was happy to see the long postings on this topic. I ramble on and on with long postings and I need to work on breivity I think. It's my succinctness that needs more work. Brusqueness is what I'm trying to avoid perhaps. What I mean to say is that I rephrase things over and over too much somtimes. In other words, I put too many words to drive the point home. I know you don't understand and tha I need to continue on so let me say that I need to get a broken finger in order to curb my long postings. Hmmm.....jeeez, how can I say this ?

If it's one thing that history has shown us, it's that it repeats itself.

It is's one that tha history has shown us it's that it repeasts itslef.

[truk4u]

Panterra Coach & RV, President is Bob Makin, 260-665-8000 or cell 260-908-4810. I sat next to him at the Prevost dinner in Charlotte, nice guy...

[matsprt]

Panterra Coach & RV, President is Bob Makin, 260-665-8000 or cell 260-908-4810. I sat next to him at the Prevost dinner in Charlotte, nice guy...

I called him about an American I was looking at per Tom's suggestion. Ditto on the nice guy. Very helpful.

Michael

[Will Garner]

Thanks to everyone that was so kind to provide valuable responses to my thread. We went, we looked, we came home and bought a 1991 Country Coach within a two hour drive. Oh well, if we had not made the trip to Michigan we would always have a question about that one.

Hope all had a Merry Christmas (we did for sure) and best wishes for a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year.

Will

[rfoster]

Just a note to say Congratulations on your new Coach!. I know this is an exciting time for you and if you need help or have questions, please don't hesitate to ask. There's a lot of guys on this board who make up answers. They don't really know jack. I am the only one you can believe!

Tell Santa to please come by my house, he missed me this year. It is obvious now where he was.:cool:

[Just Plain Jeff]

Congratulations on your new coach!

You may not be aware that there is a long-standing tradition that we need to see pictures, pictures, pictures!

You noted that your long search is over.

Will, there is something called MPD and it ain't over 'til it's over.

And then some.

May you have many happy times and miles in your new coach!

[TedK]

To reply to Jeff's message, I am the "Ted" that he mentions. We did buy all of Angola Coach except the walls and people. We are Regal Coachworks in Janesville, WI. and yes, we did try to do something with the Angola information but with no success. We understand that Angola was the people not the equipment. To that end I will say that we do have all information on past coaches and I don't recall that the coach you bought was an Angola. We did provide a timely remodel for Jeff and accommodated him rather well. I have sent out letters in the past to former Angola customers and got only 2 responses. If you have an Angola coach, please feel free to look us up, we do have records and original materials for your coach as well as new H3-45's. Thanks again Jeff for being a great customer and come see us again soon.

[Loc]

We have had a 1992 Angola for 5.5 years. The systems are well thought out and logical. The bus is as solid as a rock and it has 250K plus miles. Our only complaint with the Angola set up is the Espar heaters.

Ted,

Any suggestions for the Espar heaters?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Aquahot, or with the addition of a hot water tank and some plumbing it seems a Webasto would work. Simpler.

[Just Plain Jeff]

Loc:

We went through the Espar saga with our 89 Angola. It was a miserable experience on the best days. What we have here are imported German truck heaters put in a motorhome chassis x 3 which stink, drip diesel oil, and when they work, blow so hot and dry you could make my hair grow.

We got in touch with Vehical Systems, the Webasto folks and what it came down to was a backwards conversion of the system into the coach. You can't tap into the bus air, so you wind up tearing out all the converted pieces along the sides of the coach on the inside to run registers, exchangers and fans for the heat. At that time, which may have been in about 2002 or so, they tagged the price at about $13K. We got another quote for the same job in Florida at just about the same money.

At that time, Espar was about as cooperative as the IRS doing mission work and had no parts available, no plans and no tech service (a good deal all the way around). They did offer to sell complete new turbo units (nice of them) which is what we alread had. The control units were the problem as it turned out and finally got some from a marine distributor.

It's a toughie. We also added an additional kick heater and used the Cruise Airs as heat pumps to work around the Espars.

Gosh, wouldn't it have been great if Angola had gone the Webasto/Aqua Hot route back then?

Pay now or pay later I guess.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll figure a good solution.