Blown Engine / Help from Prevost ?

[Jeff Bayley]

I need major help/advise here.

I've still got a 94 Angola with a blown engine. A piston (wrist pin we think) failed and blew a hole in the block. Only 70k miles. It has been sitting for a year while I've been trying to get an economical sollution for a replacment engine. I put some posts on this site prior about it. Recentley however, somone in the coach business said that I should try to get Prevost to go to bat on my behalf to Detroit and get some "help" from them on the engine. In other words, a discounted engine or something of the sort. W.W. Williams wants $30k for a remanufactured engine; parts and labor.

Well I spoke with Dave Langolis who is a Prevost rep. I was told by someone else that I needed to speak with Robert Hicks who is supposed to be the nationwide service manager. I've left a couple of messages for him but he is getting back to me by way of Dave Langolis who I started out with. Anyway, I made my case to Dave Langolis about a week ago to put pressure on Detroit to help me (somehow) with the replacement engine in consideration of the low mileage on it when it failed (70k miles only). There was a known defect in the early series 60's I'm informed and Detroit knows this. Evidently Detroit replaced a lot of engines for free back in the day.

This coach of course has taken time to get enough mileage on it since motor homes sit more than the drive so it's taken 12 years for the defect to manifest itself. I have been surprised when "in the biz" people have continued to encourage me to get Detoit to do something to help with the replacment engine in light of the age of the bus but person after person that know how Detroit operates continue to give me reason to belive they will help.

Now my thinking currently is that I am better off trying to work though lettting Prevost put preasure on Detroit on my behalf since it is a bad reflection on them both collectivly that a "million mile coach" gave out at 70k miles. Part of that "millon mile coach" bragging is due to the drivetrain which includes the engine from Detroit. The idea is that since Prevost buys a volume of engines from Detroit (200 a year someone remarked) that Prevost is in a better position to get them to do something.

So far, I'm not getting anywhere. I honestly don't think that I'm talking to the right people at Prevost. I think that if the right person barks at Detroit they will do something. The guys I mentioned above gave me the sad news today that their contacts at Detroit (Bill Lynch and Doug Weatherly) gave the thumbs down to my plea. I don't know any of these people. I would be satisfied if Detroit just took care of the labor to put a used engine in that I've located. I gave that suggestion to Dave Langolis today to carry back to Detroit and he says he'll make another run at it for me.

Am I making a mistake letting Prevost do the talking for me ? So far they aren't getting a damn thing done on my behalf so I'll move onto to speaking to Detroit myself soon I suppose. Can anyone give me some stradegy on this ? Call me if want at 800-854-3504 to discuss. Right now, I got a $30,000 problem that I'm trying to reduce.

Help! Any ideas appreciated.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

DD had a problem with early Series 60 engines. Some had a failure of the piston at the wrist pin. The top and bottom of the piston would separate and the end result was a catastrophic engine failure.

To the best of my knowledge DD at the time took the position that they would repair or replace only those that failed and not do a recall. I was told by a mechanic if the engine made it to 250,000 miles it was unlikely to fail The problem was the supplier of pistons screwed up.

I would suggest you continue up the food chain of both Prevost and DD until you hit the person with the horsepower to see that your engine gets rebuilt. I suggest you do as much research as possible to document your engine falls within the serial number range of engines that had this problem. DD dealers are independent and they will not out of the goodness of their hearts fix your problem. They need to know DD or you will be writing the check.

Don't be shy about your quest to document the DD problem because with that in hand you can exert serious pressure on DD and Prevost. Do it quickly however because if Prevost announces they are done using DD engines and are switching to Volvo future help from them with DD will be zilch.

[merle&louise]

Jeff:

I had a similar problem with a Cummins diesel engine in my Bertram 38' back in the early 80s. My port engine blew because of three cracked pistons. Someone suggested to me to put in a claim on my insurance policy! I thought that this was useless, but I figured what have I got to lose. Much to my surprise, the insurance company agreed to pay 66% of the bill less the deductible. Cummins Diesel agreed to pay 33% (parts) so a $6,000 bill only cost me $2,000 (Cummins paid $2,000 & insurance company paid $4,000 - $2,000 deductible).

Maybe something like that could work for you as a last resort.

[Jeff Bayley]

Jon- Thank your for that EXCELLENT suggestion. I have faxed the request for the informatoin to a Stuart Stevenson in New Mexico that I stopped at for work and to Prevost in NJ where the manager is somewhat helpful. I think Stuart Stevenson is more likely to be able to find the old memos from Detroit on this and so forth. I wonder if there was a time limit on the replacments. If I can get the proof in writing to their service people about the problem and the propossed remedies then I think your right about this giving me some ammo to take to the higher ups at Detroit.

Do you know of any Detroit Diesel forums I could post a request for these docuents at or some web site that I could possibley find arceived information at ?

Thank you,

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jeff,

Try this. If no help can be found here, maybe the participants can steer you towards sources of information.

http://www.dieselenginetrader.com/diesel_talk/categories.cfm?catid=9

Since Angola is gone and some of their engineering is taken over by Pharoh Coach (I don't know where they are) you also might see if their technical people can help.

I also would not rule out talking to a number of Detroit Diesel dealers in a non-threatening manner to ask them if they have any service bulletins or advisories from DD regarding this matter. All of this presumes your engine problem and the problem I described above are the same.

As far as mileage and time is concerned, there may have been a limit since typically our engines used in commercial applications get 80,000 to 100,000 miles a year.

And I do want to restate this is a Series 60 issue relating solely to the separation of the piston skirt at the wrist pin.

[MangoMike]

Jeff,
Check out this post from dieseltrader

http://www.dieselenginetrader.com/diesel_talk/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=685#1506

mike

[Loc]

Jeff

You may want to call Panterra Coach for information on the Angola. As I understand their staff includes a number of former Angola Coach staff. They are located in Angola, Indiana and their phone number is (260) 665-8000. Their website is http://www.panterracoach.com/.

Good Luck

Loc

[Loc]

Jeff

You may want to call Panterra Coach. As I understand their staff includes a number of former Angola Coach staff. Maybe they can help They are located in Angola, Indiana and their phone number is (260) 665-8000. Their website is http://www.panterracoach.com/.

Good Luck

Loc

[Loc]

Jeff

You may want to call Panterra Coach. As I understand their staff includes a number of former Angola Coach staff. Maybe they can offer some assitance. They are located in Angola, Indiana and their phone number is (260) 665-8000. Their website is http://www.panterracoach.com/.

Good Luck

Loc

[Joe Cannarozzi]

Pretty nice older bus on that site. Never saw a rear window before, not on a Prevost.