XL2 panel delamination

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

As I mentioned that while in Prevost JAX, I watched the work on 2 XL2's that were having the panel repair job done. I had a leak test done before we left because of the water damage we are having on our machine in the right and left bays # 3. I called this morning to get the quote, It looks like the cost on a non slide will be around $ 34,000 and a slide coach around $ 37,000. As there are 251 XL2's with reported delamination I would expect this problem to effect most machines out there. If I were a new buyer I would think I would discount a used machine the $ 30-40,000 range unless the repairs were made.
I guess RIVITS RULE.
Ed

[jack14r]

Even if repairs have been made Jax told me that there was no guarantee that it could not happen again,also that they could not predict that it would ever happen.I owned a Piper Malibu many years ago and the wing skins were bonded to the wing with glue,if that can be done why can,t Prevost do it on a bus,the temperature from sea level to 25,000 feet is over 125 difference degrees sometimes.I did see a 2005? Marathon that Jax was re doing the skins for the 2nd time.

[Gary Carmichael]

Thank goodness I bought a H model, but guess they have problems too! maybe not as bad. Why can't they repair them with rivets? or is that the way they fix them? Gary

[Gary Carmichael]

I have been thinking on this subject for a little while, If there are over 250 units that have this problem why is Prevost not stepping up to the plate, This is a bad glue used by Prevost Seems they should recall those affected, 250 X 35000 8million seven hundred fifty thousand out of owners pockets. I believe if I had a XL with these problems I would be knocking at there door. Just my thoughts! Gary

[jack14r]

I saw a 2006 Liberty at Jax that was repaired with rivets on the leading and trailing edge of each panel then they glued a strip of stainless over the rivets,it looked really very good,I think that I would go that route if I had problems.

[Gary Carmichael]

Jack, does it affect 2008 thru 2012 XLII's

[jack14r]

The tech at Jax told me it was like cancer,no one has been able to predict which ones might be affected.I also asked if it seemed to matter if a coach was garaged and his answer was"we don't think that it matters".

[JIM KELLER]

I use Jacksonville Prevost on a routine basis. Each time I am in there they have units with panel issues. Some are under warranty and some are not. Don't understand how they determine who gets what because some are new and some have been five and six years old. They have tried several different adhesives at this point and none are working. The general feeling is they are all leaking. Some more than others. A Bus that is outside most of it's life will have leaks in the bay's. A Bus that is garaged is protected from the rain and leaks will be unnoticed behind interior walls. They have built a blower devise to find adhesion issues. It fits against the drivers window. They spray soap on the exterior of the Bus and pressurize the interior with the blower. Bubbles appear at the leak points. They are now experimenting with rivits under the belt moldings.

As far as I know all the above is public knowledge. If this Post should be censored please do so and I will not be offended.

[Jamie Bradford]

Jim

When you say a bus left outside most of the time will develop leaks in the bays - does this mean there is basically nothing you can do short of keeping the bus under cover? Will putting a sealer on the roof help this at all? A friend of mine with an XL had the roof sealed last year and said he can tell a big difference with how the bus cools - I was just wondering if this will help the moisture issue also?

Thanks

Jamie

[JIM KELLER]

A Bus outside will be exposed to more rain than one inside a garage or under cover. Large amounts of water will increase the possibility of some of it making its way to the storage bays. Roof sealant will help with Bus temperature but not water leaks on the sides.

[coreygrubb]

guess we'll be keeping our rivet 2000 XL for awhile ! Anyone know what model year the problems were resolved ?

[jack14r]

The new 2012 X45 might have solved the problem because there is no stainless above the bay doors.I don't think that it has been resolved on any of the XLII buses.I guess that I am lucky in that I have not had an issue with delamination.

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

Gary, our XLII has already been repaired by Prevost some time ago. An " OFFICIAL" told us that in our case if the workers did not seal the press jig holes, water would migrate through these holes and work on the glue joints. He said they have seen this before. I don't know if this applies to machines that have not had the repairs done. I also asked for help as their rework failed. NO HELP OFFERED

Ed

[Gary Carmichael]

Capt, That is a hard cookie to swallow, I have heard that frame twist or "torque' could be the problem this from someone at Prevost but they were not sure and were looking into the possibility. Gary

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

In 12 years they haven't figured this out???? If it was a heart valve, that would have been figured out immediately!! This is also an interesting thought.... have the entertainer buses been having this problem? Or have they been "secretly" repairing them?
Ed

The aircraft industry wouldn't accept it either!! There would be an immediate recall.

[Ronald Hiemann]

If this is a manufacturing defect, as it appears to be, how come this has not been dealt with more forcefully, yet? Why should an XLII owner, regardless of coach age, pay for this repair?

[Jscott]

Who want's to hire the Attorney for the class action suite....I'm in (2006 XLII) Country Coach. there is always strength in numbers.

[garyde]

Prevost has paid for some of these and not just for original owners. Best talk to the Prevost Rep if you have an issue before going into Prevost.
Jaime should have his contact info. Prevost was at our last rally and they support POG.
I would also have Prevost inspect your coach once a year to maintain a baseline and a record going forward.

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

I would also have Prevost inspect your coach once a year to maintain a baseline and a record going forward.

That is exactly what we are doing now, Gary. We just had Prevost JAX do the inspection for the delamination and also did the Pressurized leak test. We were told that a report would be written up and that we were # 251 now with the problem.
Sandy

[JIM KELLER]

Sandy, Did they do the Pressurized Leak Test the same way I described earlier in this Thread ? Drivers window, soap on the outside, bubbles everywhere.

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

Yes, Jim. What a mess it left afterwards. At least the liquid was soap and could be rinsed off. They said it was Dawn Dish detergent.
Sandy

We had more bubbles on the side of our bus than they had hot air balloons in New Mexico at the festival!!!

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

TODAY A Prevost rep, not to be identified, said policy is 2007 and later may have panels repaired under a % warranty. Anything earlier, repair would be at owner expense. Looks like a prospective buyer should be looking at a later model. The earlier models get much better fuel mileage but it would take a lifetime to make up for a 40-$50,000 repair job.

Ed

[garyde]

That may be a new Policy since many people have had earlier coaches repaired at Prevosts expense. I would get a name.
Also, a cost of that size seems high. Are your refering to replacing just the panels in between the Galley and bedroom slide?
What Prevost has been doing is re glueing in place and adding a mold on the seams. That doesnt cost much.
If you had to take off the stainless skins all the way around the bus and replace with new, and then polish and paint the bus where paint occurred, I can see it being expensive. However, I know of at least one person who had all of this done at Prevosts expense and he was not the first owner and the Coach was early 2000's.

[Repoer]

What was the first year of this panel problum. And only xl ?

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

Prevost's quote was in the $30K range for non-slide and add around $7K more for slides. This is just re-glueing and adding the mold on the seams. ????

Ed
Sandy (being Ed's Secretary) I was there when Prevost JAX told us this and heard it myself.

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

Repoer,

This is with the XLII's. As stated in above previous posts here, our XLII has already been re-glued in the past when they first discovered the problems and it now has the same problem happening again.

[Gary Carmichael]

IT seems to me that Prevost would step up to the plate here! the date of manufacture should not have any thing to do with the repair being paid for by Prevost unless they changed adhesive they used on that date, and if so why did the change occur, was it because of problems detected then? It seems it would set a precedent if a 2001 was repaired at no cost and a 2006 would have to pay? I still say there should be a recall of sorts, I am not bashing Prevost here, but just putting out my thoughts! Gary

[Lawrence M.]

I recently had a few "loose" panels glued at Prevost, Mira Loma. I am leaving soon on a long trip to the midwest and back. I will keep you posted as to any water leaks or panels coming unglued. The repair took one day.

[merle&louise]

Has anyone from Prevost or otherwise determined WHY these panels are coming unglued?

Could the glue be inferior? Maybe the glue manufacturer could help with some of the expenses.

When a bus is repaired, does Prevost use a different brand of glue or do they use the initial brand that was used when the bus was built?

Could the heat generated from a polishing tool cause the glue to break down?

How are the panels on an H attached?

[Gary Carmichael]

Very interesting question, I too would like to know how the H panels are on. I would think bolted? Gary

[Seabyrd]

I have been told that the H panels are only glued on. Also heard (only heard) that the very long panel under the windows on the passenger side came off on an H but couldn't find any info to confirm this. Has anyone else heard this?


Very interesting question, I too would like to know how the H panels are on. I would think bolted? Gary

[garyde]

I think a tour of the Prevost Plant in Quebec is in order!

[Jamie Bradford]

POG Gathering this summer???

Anyone interested??

Perhaps next year ??

Jamie

[coreygrubb]

POG Gathering this summer???

Anyone interested??

Perhaps next year ??

Jamie

Yes...we were kinda thinking of a canadian trip this summer and working in a tour at St. Claire around their shut-down sked.

[merle&louise]

I have been told that the H panels are only glued on. Also heard (only heard) that the very long panel under the windows on the passenger side came off on an H but couldn't find any info to confirm this. Has anyone else heard this?

Diane,

Does your H have any rivets? I was wondering if maybe it is glued and riveted at the edge of each panel.

[Alek&Lucia]

Hi,

We don't have any rivets on our H, and no signs of delamination,

Alek

[Seabyrd]

Tuga,

No not a rivet, screw or anything that I can see....narrow strips along the top of the bus appear to slide on then snap in place but the big panel under the windows I have no clue... I would think just glued... I may call Prevost and ask them next week, I am curious now.

[merle&louise]

I wonder if flush rivets would be a viable solution! I know that flush rivets are used on airplanes.

[Seabyrd]

When the guy told me about the failed panel that he had heard about, we had him check ours very closely and they all seem super tight. I think that they would have to have snaps or fasteners attached to the back of the panels that attach to the frames.. I don't see glue being the only means to attach these panels as big as they are.

[Coloradobus]

Diane,
From experience with our last coach, the Marathon H, the side panels above the baydoors to the roof line are hung on a track much like how your windows are hung off a lip, the lower panel edge is screwed into the body. The bay door skins have rivets on the edges. The trapezoid windows and driver's side and entry door windows are sika-flexed in place

[tskrodzki]

I have a 2000 entertainer XL2 I don't have a bay leak, what I am getting a leak from over the drivers front area and collects in the bay under the drivers area, I have recaulked around all the glass and resealed the roof rivets, around the air horns and every other roof penetration, have tightened the side window brackets and still taken in water during heavy rand or driving down a hill.

[garyde]

Hi tskrodzki. The top marker lights have been known to leak.

[tskrodzki]

Thank you. I will try those again. I was running low on caulking and just went over what was there. I will try removing the old pulling the light cleaning it up and resealing it. :)

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

I wonder if flush rivets would be a viable solution! I know that flush rivets are used on airplanes.
Tuga,
GENERALLY........
The rivets on an airplane are "bucked". Meaning that someone on the outside is holding resistance against the flush side of the rivet and on the inside a "peanning device is being used on the rivet.
Prevost in their XL2 repair is using a flush rivet in the style of a POP rivet, so there is a hole that has to be filled, which is why they put the strip over the top of it to cover it up. The SS strip is adhered with 2 sided sticky tape.
Ed

[merle&louise]

I understand Ed, thanks!

[edsaylor]

I like many of you thought I had no problem with delamanation until about a month ago when I noticed a slight crack where the front slide stainless is glued at the bottom front curve. I stuck my fingernail in and found it was loose. I checked the rear slide and found it similar. I then checked the other side and found a 6 inch place at a joint very loose! I called Bill Jensen and he had me call John, Service Mgr. in Jacksonville, as that is closest service center. He told me they are doing 2 at a time, so I made appointment for this week. They showed me one they have just completed and it looks great. I think this fix will correct the problem. They are putting rivets at the front and rear of each panel after re-glueing any loose places. Also rivets along the top and bottom of all panels, these covered by belt mouldings. Looks like they are putting plenty of rivets in. They then cover rivets at both ends of the panels with stainless matching whats there. It really looks good and should fix the problem. I gathered that Prevost is covering the repair for up to 5 years. so mine got covered. Anyone with a 5 year or less coach really needs to carefully inspect every panel because you probably have some loose.

As a side note, while at Jacksonville I noticed an XLII that had been in a collision that must have really been bad right under the driver. The bumper was bent around to the frame and wall just in front of the front tire. The main frame showed where it had pushed into something as everything was peeled back around it. The driver side access door was gone. The DRIVER area was above all of this dammage!! This showed that Prevost does buiold a strong Bus.

[Jscott]

Hey Ed, Hope your repair goes well, Nice looking coach you had Monday morning. The staff got my slides working Monday morning. I could not asked for better service. Here is a pic of that damaged coach you were referring to.

[johnklopp]

RIVETS RULE

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

Do you know what is behind your panels?

Sorrry, don"t know how to rotate picture. Go clockwise!
Ed

Jaime, if you could rotate the picture, it would be appreciated.
Ed

[CAPT MOGUL & Sandy]

collects in the bay under the drivers area, I have recaulked around all the glass and resealed the roof rivets, around the air horns and every other roof penetration, have tightened the side window brackets and still taken in water during heavy rand or driving down a hill.

tskrodzki, are you getting water in the lower deck bay? Specifically speaking about the cargo bays? If so, it is for sure probably from the panel delaminating.
Ed

[tskrodzki]

collects in the bay under the drivers area, I have recaulked around all the glass and resealed the roof rivets, around the air horns and every other roof penetration, have tightened the side window brackets and still taken in water during heavy rand or driving down a hill.

tskrodzki, are you getting water in the lower deck bay? Specifically speaking about the cargo bays? If so, it is for sure probably from the panel delaminating.
Ed

No, bays are dry, it is just the area below the driver and the driver side dash and the panel right behind the toll window as well as the over head storage above the driver. After looking closer it appears to start at about the same point as the top of the service door on the drivers side. I can't see any gaps around the door or drip edge. I have been tipping the Gus to the right when parked to avoid water entry and that has been working, so it is definitely coming from the drivers side front area

[terryweber]

i have same thing ..is prevost taking car of you

[Joe Camper]

A previous post wondered if the entertainers were still being fixed without charge under the radar.

They do not delaminate because the only stainless on the entertainers is the bay doors as eluded to by Jack.

That is how ALL the XLs entertainers were built. They removed the stainless panels on the motorhomes below the windows and above the bay doors on the newer models, they changed them to the way the entertainers were all along.

here is an 02XLII an entertainer

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