OTR and CA future service

[Mark]

From looking at the posts regarding OTR and CA (generally found in the Libertys) it appears to me that they use R12 freon from the days past. My question/concern is if I buy a bus with these types of air conditioning systems what is the future of being able to service these units? I know freon is still available but in latter years what are my options? Can these systems be converted over to today's gas and if so how much does it cost for each CA and the OTR air? I prefer these systems but when looking at the roof air systems it looks like when they break you handle it like a TV - throw it away and get a new one, not a big deal.

[dreamchasers]

Mark,

I have a 1995 Country Coach that used R12 in the CC OTR(CC installed their own version of OTR air in their conversions. It is not a Prevost OTR air) air and dash air. I have rebuilt both system and charged with R12. I do not see any issue with recharge of R12 for the foreseeable future, however, their are several AC experts that are POG members that can chime in. These guys work with these material daily and could offer a better opinion.

I choose to retain the R12 capabilities to assure that the ACs work at top efficiencies. My information has lead me to believe that converting an R12 system to the current R134a does not necessarily mean the conversion will result in the same cooling capacity.

I manage these systems by purchasing virgin R12 from sellers on Ebay. You can also purchase R12 freon that has be recycled. I would expect eventually, this will be the only R12 available in the R12 market. Not sure if I will see only recycled R12 in my lifetime.

Good Luck,

Hector

[BoaterAl]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. As long as the A/C system works as it's designed you might never have any trouble. On my former Country Coach owned for 10 years A/C never missed a beat.
We know that you would have an inspection (PDI) prior to writing the big check. And this subject has been beat to death on this forum and many others. Saddly some buyers get the OMG surprise after the purchase. It's beyond me why someone would not do basic exams of major systems with all the resources available. There are several sponsors here that surely help you in getting some comfort level on the new bus.
In my boating days and having owned 13 all except 2 had surveys. One failed to obtain wide open throttle on a sea trial. Another after taking a oil sample found to have a leaking head gasket. Both twin diesels and repairs were big bucks for the sellers. Both boats were purchased based on repairs completed.

[garyde]

My 03 Liberty lost about 10 lbs of coolant when the compressor went bad. So, it probably would be a good idea to upgrade the coolant to the R 134a from a replacement stand point. I believe its a lot less expensive per lb. than the R12.
OTR as compared to roof A/C. This is a long debated issue. What it comes down to is; use of the coach , personal preference, and what the coach has that you like.
For some OTR is a necessity, especially for those who live and travel in hot climates.
OTR can keep the interior down in the low 70's while its 105 degrees outside. Roof Airs will not.
Liberty's also have 4- Cruise Air A/C split units as well which run off of Generator or shore power.:cool:

[jack14r]

I have found that the newer 134A freon OTR will keep the coach in the mid 60s on a hot day in the southeast.

[Woody]

FWIW we finally had OTR working after changing to i34- we had a leak and had to replace all hoses to find and correct it.

In the process we had Liberty try to fix it, Prevost Jax try to fix it, a local outfit whom actually put in residential stop leak and finally, through a thread fond on POG, we had Welsh Industries in Atlanta replace all hoses - their bill $1,600 which was far less than what the others had billed for NOT fixing it.

Joanie now complains about how cold it is!

[Gary Carmichael]

Think I will leave the system as is untill I have a leak and then switch to 134, does any thing have to be changed to switch? it seems prudent to go to 134 after a problem as it is more readily available.

[Pete]

Having had both, I would recommend OTR a/c. My previous coach had OTR (it was an American conversion), and traveling in the south and southwest it was GREAT!
I also had 3 cruise airs on the American Coach. Fortunately, I never had to drive using just the cruise airs, but it felt good knowing that I had to simply start the genset, and fire up the cruise airs. (I have heard from those who have run only using cruise airs that they have a tendency to shut down in very hot conditions.

Skip to present coach, a 95 Vision with 4 roof airs, and dash air, there is NO back up other than the dash air in case of genset failure.....It is ok with 4 roof airs, will keep you very comfortable, but keep your fingers crossed that one roof air or the genset does not fail.

The ideal set up in my mind would be OTR, dash air, and 4 roof airs. I understand the OTR on the older coaches can be converted to 134, but is VERY EXPENSIVE to do so.

Good luck!

[joelselman]

My chassis got to me with 134A in the OTR; I BELIEVE that's the way it came from the factory. At the present time, I need to add about 1# a year. My CA use R-22; far as I know they all do but I believe R-22 is being phased out.

Nothing comes close to the performance of a properly working OTR. I can go to storage in the summer with a heat soaked coach (stored inside) @ 115 ambient and have the coach bearable in 20 minutes and comfortable in about an hour.

[Pete]

Joel, when I had the same conditions, I would turn on the OTR, AND start the genset, and run the cruise airs, and in just a few minutes the coach would be very cool to the point my wife would be yelling about it being too cold. At which point, I would turn off the cruise airs/genset, and use only the OTR.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Think I will leave the system as is untill I have a leak and then switch to 134, does any thing have to be changed to switch? it seems prudent to go to 134 after a problem as it is more readily available.

Gary, you have an 2005, you should already have 134a refrigerant.

[dmatz]

R 22 is being phased out. On Monday the EPA announced that they are going to cut levels to 40% of last year levels. A 30lb can was $150 on Monday at the end of business today it was $410. If you have a R22 leak it will be to find and repair it as its going to be very expensive to fix moving forward. FWIW

[joelselman]

There will probably be a replacement/modification available for r-22, if there isn't already.

Pete: That's what I like about the 45' coach; when my wife starts complaining, the stateroom is far away from the cockpit! Oops, oh, Hi Honey, I didn't see you behind me.

P.S. Isn't the EPA one of those superfluous govt agencies proposed for elimination?