Smoke, Lots of Smoke

[johnbrowder]

We are in the early stages of a long trip. We had the bus serviced in Nashville and went to Memphis, no problems. When leaving Memphis yesterday, I noticed some white smoke under acceleration. A little ways down the road I stopped and checked all fluids again, all fine. No DDEC codes, no performance issues.

This AM we made an embarrassing amount of white smoke on high idle. I shut down, checked everything, and changed the Racor for good measure. No change in smoke.

Drove about 300 miles into New Orleans. All along the way we had black/gray smoke under load, and white smoke sitting still on high idle. Maybe a little loss of performance. Still no DDEC codes or consumption of fluids, other that fuel.

I am beta testing Ray's iPad app and we noted "Ambient Air Temp", as reported on the diagnostic port to match up with the dash OAT when sitting still and varying from 100+ to almost 150 going down the road. Other temps were rock steady, including "Intake Air Temp".

What's going on?
Ambient air temp failure? Where is it located?
Injector(s)? Can injectors be replaced in the field?
Something else?

Hoping to have DD come out in the AM.

Thanks for any help!

[garyde]

Hi John . Have you checked your coolant? Have you checked the color of your oil. A worst case scenario might be coolant in the oil.
Could be the air mix also.

[AmeriStar]

White smoke generally indicates antifreeze in the fuel that is being injected and burned. Head gasket or cracked head is the culprit. Pricy either way. Get into a good shop asap.

[Mark3101]

White smoke generally indicates antifreeze in the fuel that is being injected and burned. Head gasket or cracked head is the culprit. Pricy either way. Get into a good shop asap.

+1 on the coolant into combustion somewhere. Get it checked out now! If you get too much and it gets into oil, it can ruin bearings and cost you HUGE! It could take out the crankshaft.

[Reagan Sirmons]

John,
Hope it is not coolant related. It could be that the injectors need to be serviced?
I also "made oil" once with my Newell when the injectors leaked diesel into the oil...it smoked a little...
Wish you well..
Pres

[johnbrowder]

Okay. Here is the answer:

Leaky Injector #1

The local DD shop sent out a technician this AM. He was able to quickly determine that Cylinder #1 was at fault, and he strongly favored and injector problem. We unplugged and made the trek across the river to Harvey, LA. Three and one half hours and one new injector later all was well!

Thanks for all the inputs, I was very aware to watch for coolant and oil level changes after an oil cooler failed in a Hatteras yacht leading to a rebuilt.

[pwf252]

John,
Where are youy guys headed if its not too impolite to ask?
Sherry and I are headed for the gulf shores on Wed. but if you are headed West and your stopped in Dallas anytime Tuesday call us and we will treat you and Janene to lunch or dinner at your choice.

[BoaterAl]

John, did the tech have any concerns or suggestions on doing an oil change ?

[rfoster]

Do you think a piece of crud got by the fuel filters and clogged or damaged the injector? or ?

[johnbrowder]

We are going east slowly making our way down the west coast of FL all the way to the keys. We'd love to get together, but if I read your post correctly that looks unlikely.
John


John,
Where are youy guys headed if its not too impolite to ask?
Sherry and I are headed for the gulf shores on Wed. but if you are headed West and your stopped in Dallas anytime Tuesday call us and we will treat you and Janene to lunch or dinner at your choice.

[johnbrowder]

John, did the tech have any concerns or suggestions on doing an oil change ?

No, in fact he said it would take thousands of miles of operating in that condition to lead to problems. BTW, my MPG mileage during this period was spot on my normal averages.

[johnbrowder]

Do you think a piece of crud got by the fuel filters and clogged or damaged the injector? or ?

No, tech said i just happens. He showed me a minute "crack" (looked like a fine hair to me...) in the injector tip. said it causes the injector to dribble rather than atomize, thus incomplete fuel burn. He also said if a particle was small enough to make it through the secondary filter, it was small enough to be stayed through the injector.

[Gary Carmichael]

John, I am in Riverbend for the winter, but we are leaving for Bluewater in the Keys on Sunday, will be there 22-29, then on to Stuart for the Liberty Super Bowl Rally. After that back to Riverbend Are we going to cross paths somewhere, if so like to meet you guys. Good luck sounds as if you have the problem in hand.

[travelite]

Okay. Here is the answer:

Leaky Injector #1

The local DD shop sent out a technician this AM. He was able to quickly determine that Cylinder #1 was at fault, and he strongly favored and injector problem. We unplugged and made the trek across the river to Harvey, LA. Three and one half hours and one new injector later all was well!

Thanks for all the inputs, I was very aware to watch for coolant and oil level changes after an oil cooler failed in a Hatteras yacht leading to a rebuilt.

John,

Glad you got it taken care of. Any idea how the tech diagnosed cylinder 1? What tests did he use? I can imagine that a faulty injector was at the top of his list of possible causes, but how did he narrow it down to cylinder number 1?

[Terry J. Sturgis]

I had my #1 injector go bad last july in PA. Catipillar mechanic made diagnosus off the computer. I had the same question as John, why did that injector go bad? Same answer, it happens sometimes. A little over $1,000.00 later I was happily on my way. Life is good.

[johnbrowder]

He plugged into the diagnostic port in the engine bay, used a reader with keypad, not a PC. I think he did a "cylinder cutout test" I think shutting off fuel to each injector, one at a time. When he shut off #1, the smoke stopped and running did not change. Wuith each other cylinder, the smoke continued, and running became rougher.


John,

Glad you got it taken care of. Any idea how the tech diagnosed cylinder 1? What tests did he use? I can imagine that a faulty injector was at the top of his list of possible causes, but how did he narrow it down to cylinder number 1?

[travelite]

Thanks John, That's way cool!

[Coach Pro LLC]

Is this an "EGR" engine? 03 will be close. If so, I would not hesitate to check the Prevost "inner cooler" which had a tendency to crack. If cracked, that might explain every symptom listed. There is a change from the original "square" inner cooler to the newer and current "cylindrical" cooler. Any Prevost shop will know exaclty what to look for and the testing is conclusive if the cooler is bad. Note this will only apply to EGR Detroit engine (although the cooler is a Prevost intstall) but is fairly well know. You may want to have the ESN Engine Serial Number in hand and call the Prevosr shop you like best. You can find the ESN on the engine valve cover, passenger side, data plate. It will read Unit and begin with 06R. Could be anything but I would take a hard look into an EGR inner cooler.....

[johnbrowder]

Thank goodness it is NOT an EGR engine. My conversion is a 2003, built on a 2002 shell, and who knows when Prevost bought the engine. We have logged a few hundred miles after the injector replacement and all is well!

John


Is this an "EGR" engine? 03 will be close. If so, I would not hesitate to check the Prevost "inner cooler" which had a tendency to crack. If cracked, that might explain every symptom listed. There is a change from the original "square" inner cooler to the newer and current "cylindrical" cooler. Any Prevost shop will know exaclty what to look for and the testing is conclusive if the cooler is bad. Note this will only apply to EGR Detroit engine (although the cooler is a Prevost intstall) but is fairly well know. You may want to have the ESN Engine Serial Number in hand and call the Prevosr shop you like best. You can find the ESN on the engine valve cover, passenger side, data plate. It will read Unit and begin with 06R. Could be anything but I would take a hard look into an EGR inner cooler.....

[Mark3101]

No, in fact he said it would take thousands of miles of operating in that condition to lead to problems. BTW, my MPG mileage during this period was spot on my normal averages.

That may or not be correct. I have seen the same type of failure result in oil contamination in far less mileage. If I were you, I would get the oil changed ASAP to be safe. Oil is cheap, engines are not.

[BoaterAl]

I would be somewhat surprised if S & S had not changed the oil. If the budget wouldn't allow for filters then at least 8 gallons new.