Can you trust your mechanic?

[treedoc]

Just buying my coach a month ago I am going through all maintence so I know what has been done.
Yesturday I changed the racor filter. When I pulled the filter out there was greasy finger prints all over the outside of the filter. The knuckle head mechanic obviously doesn't believe in using gloves or at least cleaning his hands!
I also greased all the fittings and found 2 that wouldn't take grease so I replaced them. One was striped so I know someone at sometime knew this fitting wouldn't take grease!! Instead of being presistent to try to remove the fitting, they gave up and moved on. This is the very thing at will cost the coach owner alot more money in the long run!! I know there are a lot of very good mechanics out there and my hats off to them. Than again there are those that want you in and out and have on vested interest in you as a customer. I'm glad I'll be doing all I can so I "know" what has been done and will feel good about what I'm driving down the road. Just my thoughts. Rick

[phorner]

This scenario is exactly the reason you should "partner" with your technician whenever you have service work performed. I make it my mission to stay with the bus and observe everything as inspections are made and work performed.

The only other alternative is to do the job yourself. Although I do as much maintenance as I can within the limitations of my work space, tools and experience, there are inevitably times when a trip to either a Prevost service center or Liberty Coach is required. I DO trust their work.... but even the best can make an honest mistake or simply miss something.

That's when an extra pair of eyes can pay dividends.

And a GOOD technician will be thankful that the issue was caught before you left the service bay....

[joelselman]

I 'partner" on all work I do not perform myself and it's still iffy. Recently, I was under the coach to repair a brake air leak and discovered a small coolant leak in the vicinity and a missing nut on a recently replaced airbag.

[gmcbuffalo]

I don't think the grease guys goes by any schematics when lubing the chassis. I have found zerks that were completely covered up with road dirt. They were missed twice by a NW place that prides themselves in working on buses, and they were not found during my visit to Prevost Mira Loma this year. Found them while I was changing out my air bags this summer. So it is hit and miss and if it is missed to long forgotten forever.

[BoaterAl]

Here is a comfort level idea when you get the bus greased. As tech's will tell you, they always grease "all" the zerks, ask him to count them as he does the job. When he tells you the number he did, you already know and if its not a match go over the locations. Doing it this way most techs will be paying a little more attention........ well lets hope so.

[Joe Camper]

I know where there is a fitting that is practicly impossible to see and even harder to grease. Every xl and xlv has it. LOL. Plenty of xlII and Hs have it too.

If anyone can guess it I will gladly honor u by happily greasing your chassis and getting them all.

[Gil_J]

Let's see. There is a fitting on the steErin arm at the steering box facing the the spare tire bay. This one is often covered by the converter. Not the right one? How about the ones on the lift chambers?

Any hints? The good news is Prevost has a good location drawing.

[Joe Camper]

Both legitimate fittings but not the one I'm referring to. I might have mentioned this particular fitting to u at some point Gill, pretty sure I have. If u remember what it was I had told u don't give it away.

Clue. The chassis with the fitting in question would be with a 60 series only.

No free chassis lube for u Mr bus driver.

[Joe Camper]

Well.....looks like u all r motoring down the road with an unattended grease fitting.

[Joe Camper]

Image A

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Image B same shot closer in

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And here in the last picture is the elusive little grease nipple waiting for a smidgen of lube.

.14134

If u get down on a knee with a flashlight and direct the light in past the air bellow that's down there at the bottom of the fan u will just be able to catch a glimpse of it.

That bolt that the carriage all pivots on also incorporates a nylon or possibly a hard plastic white sleeve that slides over the bolt that takes the wear and takes the grease.

Where else can u get this stuff? Is this fitting on anyone's lub diagram?

Sheesh

[Denny]

Thanks Joe. You are the finest Prevost mechanic out there. Alway felt in good hands when you have been working on my bus

[Gil_J]

Joe, you sure know all of the nuances. I looked at a late XL and my 03 H-3 lubrication charts and that lub point was not listed.

Here's another one. Some XL main door hinges have grease fittings.

[dale farley]

As usual Joe, a very interesting and enlightening post.

[Joe Camper]

Thanks guys.

Yes Gill my xl had entrance door hindge grease fittings. I noticed 1\8 in plastic lines coming off the back of the hindges going down and through and out the bottom of the bus. When I looked underneath there was nothing but spray foam so I dug away the factory undercarriage foam insulation and low and behold there were 2 grease fittings.

So would it be correct to assume because the fitting on the fan drive bellow is not on the grease chart it is not nessessary to grease it???

This is Pier at work after hours. U all know who Pier is right?

[dale farley]

Ok Joe, Who is Pier?

[Gil_J]

So would it be correct to assume because the fitting on the fan drive bellow is not on the grease chart it is not necessary to grease it???

This is Pier at work after hours. U all know who Pier is right?

I'm guessing that if it has a zerk fitting it should require periodic lubrication. If not, someone decided it was cheaper to leave the zerk on after they performed the one-time lubrication.

Joe has a friend at the factory in Quebec that doesn't show up in an company directory. Many don't even know Pierre. But those that do must have an in depth working knowledge of our coaches and have discovered those few things that don't seem to make sense except to Pierre, the original engineer behind those things. There are few companies that don't have a Pierre. It's just too bad no one can talk to those Pierres to understand their logic in the few things we just can't understand. It reminds me of my boating years and having owned boats powered by Cummins, Yanmar, John Deer and Volvo engines. I could change out the engine impellers critical to engine cooling in 15 minutes with all but the Yanmar engine. It took hours due to where it was located. Dumb, just plain dumb. Well at least that's my opinion until Yanmar's Pierre can explain why he didn't have a choice on location.

[Joe Camper]

Very well put Gill.

Pier Prevost. The ghost at the factory in Quebec. He has his signature all over our chassis

[dale farley]

Joe,

I lubricated my chassis today, and I found the hidden grease fitting as you mentioned/showed in post # 10 of this thread. If you stick your hand in front of the engine fan mount you can feel the grease fitting.

[Joe Camper]

Some r pointed a bit forward allowing u to reach up over the top as u did and put grease that way. Then others r facing slightly rearward and much much more difficult. A great candidate for a remote fitting attached with a tube.

[dale farley]

I tried to get to mine from underneath the bus while in the work pit, but that was not possible. Once I saw where it was, I was able to reach over the fan bracket and attach the grease hose, but I could not see it at that point.

[Joe Camper]

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Look how some nipplenut plumbed this.

Comes out the tank 3/4 with a adaptor that's 3/4 to 3/8. Then another adaptor that goes from 3/8 to 1/2.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Excuse me for that.

Good grief. I had to make that happy.

14456

Mobetta. I'm working on a 59 Mack B Model it's still got half its original copper air line on it. The guy complained the air assist for the steering wasn't doing much.

Well.....9 air leaks later and it's down to loosing 1 pound a min. Still terrible but a universe away from where it was this morn.

14457

This is an enchanted place for a grease monkey to come repair stuff. Like therapy and a spiritual retreat for an old wrench. Upstate NY is a great place to spend the summers.

Where is everybody at this summer???

[Gil_J]

Joe, I knew you didn't mind getting dirty but this is a bit much. Have fun.

I'm replacing a watchdog and inverters right now. Always an interesting task. In this coach the entire engine control system was replaced by the watchdog. I generally don't spend too much time trying to trace the rat's nest of wires. I find it easier to simply remove everything a trace where the wires actually go. The owner said he was having a problem where the generator would only run for 30 seconds or so. I bet that explains why someone wired around the failed oil pressure safety switch.

Anyway, have fun.

[mbprins]

This thread brings up a question for me. I'm a new member, planning a Prevost purchase and trying to learn as much as I can to make an informed decision. Lubricating the bus ... am I right to assume that (1) you have to be underneath the bus, and (2) that is safe only if you have the bus over a pit?

Bob Prins
2000 Mountain Aire (1st coach, successful proof of full-timing concept)

[Gil_J]

Bob, as convenient as a pit can be for some undercarriage, it certainly isn't necessary to lube the chassis. Many do it by raising the air suspension system. Others use a pair of homemade ramps.

The one thing never to attempt is crawling under a coach that isn't supported by jackstands. My adjustable stands are rated for 22 tons each.

If you have any questions on your search, let me know.

[Joe Camper]

Hey Bob glad your here with all us other fenatics.

Almost never having the opportunity of a lift, when I do work with one it kills me. It requires a whole bunch different mussels primarily in the neck and after a couple days it spreads to my back..

So I wonder if given enough exposure to a lift if I would adapt and it would be benificial. Maybe, if it had a tool box up on it a deck large enough to safely walk around and a net to catch everything I drop.

But u were wondering about the ground verses pit.

Pits really r better than lifts the floor is the tool tray if u drop something it's ok and u can't fall off.

Compared to the ground for greasing and chassis service it is a huge convenience. For repair, depending on what that is, it might be better.

If u do a pit it doesn't have to be the entire length of the bus 20 or 25ft is sufficiant. Most things r either front and rear and what little and unoften u need to go work mid ship just reposition the bus. The smaller pit also doesn't impede the garage as much or cost as much either. Put a drain. Flush mount outlets. Form a ledge at the top to accept steel grate. Embed an air line, down lighting for the pit floor would be nice but everything flush as not to be snagging. Have a finisher do it like a basement floor smooth.

What else what did I omit. If I had a bus and a place and the recourses I would defiantly benifit from a pit.

Oh and its got to be somewhat safer That is not to say that not having a pit is unsafe done correctly it can be very very safely done, not as convenient as a pit by a long shot. The older I get the more I am liking them. I currently do all repairs under the bus supported on the ground and have done it that way from the beginning. All my peterbilts too.

[Joe Camper]

I did a XL at Lake Cumberland a couple weeks back. The coustomer had ordered some norgrens in advance and got them from the manufacturer. I always get them from prevo. When compared to the valve prevo sends it prompted me to do some investigation.

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OK disregard the fact that one is old and 1 is new.

See how the body of the valve on the top is plowed out and the bottom one a solid block of aluminum.

They do the exact same thing.

However.

They do carry different part numbers and this is what I learned and is another topic I've never seen discussed anywhere.

The bottom one is a "special" as defined by norgren tech support and is the exact valve prevo specs. It came from prevo. The top is a stock item. It came from norgren.

So when u r getting service done at shops other than prevo be sure u r not getting a valve that's marked up from prevo price and then a non spec valve is installed that was aquired from the manufacture at a significant savings in cost to the installer.

My suggestion, although the tech couldn't expound beyond special and without having prints to look at specifics for me, we both agreed it was defiantly a more robust valve body just by looking at it.

I'd stick with getting them at Prevo and being sure u got the right stuff. How is one to know how the other valve preforms in conditions like extreme cold, ect.

In this case the added cost of prevost parts is justified.

[Gil_J]

Joe,

You are bringing up something many others overlook when they are looking for less expensive replacement parts. Not all replacement parts are created equal, even if they come from the same manufacturer. If Norgren is building special valves for Prevost, there's a reason. Often it's because the buyer, Prevost in this case, sent a requirements specification to their supplier. Norgren in this case. It's probable that Norgren's standard valves did not meet Prevost's requirements, which resulted a custom build for Prevost. Sure, the Norgren standard valve may give you years of service or could fail prematurely. Without Prevost's specifications and those of the commercially available Norgren valve we can only guess what the differences might be.

Except for known identical products, like tires, the Prevost replacement part might be justifiably a bit more expensive than the "almost" equivalent commercially available substitute part. Something to think about when you are trying to save a few dollars on non-Prevost parts.

[BoaterAl]

Having spent years in NAPA Auto Parts I can post 100%...all replacement parts are not equal. I have a few stories on parts represented as the same as OEM ( original equipment manufacture) that are not true.
Prevost Specifications are there for a reason. We have the finest passenger bus built in the world....It'll last 1 million miles. No other even comes close. There is a reason we paid a whole lot of extra money for a Prevost and not a Winnebago unless you just want a "park bus".
My point is...... do your homework when replacing parts trying to save a couple of dollars

Staying with the Prevost replacement parts is your best choice.

[Joe Camper]

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14894

14895

Are u kidding me??? 7 fitting pieces. The T is a galvanized pipe fitting with a nipple in it. Major points deduction here.

14896

Yippee I A nipplenut service center did that. Didn't want to take the time to stop and go get the right fitting that's what happened there. Lamebrain.

2 pieces when installed correctly bus drivers and with Parker, not from your local hardware. This is the norgren that's between the back two axles and it'll give you a lean.

Not on my watch. Who's in your corner. Being able to correct it has just made my whole afternoon I'm ready for another 8 hours and it's 4 p.m.

That is absolutely terrible.

[DaneB]

14893

14894

14895

Are u kidding me??? 7 fitting pieces. The T is a galvanized pipe fitting with a nipple in it. Major points deduction here.

14896

Yippee I A nipplenut service center did that. Didn't want to take the time to stop and go get the right fitting that's what happened there. Lamebrain.

2 pieces when installed correctly bus drivers and with Parker, not from your local hardware. This is the norgren that's between the back two axles and it'll give you a lean.

Not on my watch. Who's in your corner. Being able to correct it has just made my whole afternoon I'm ready for another 8 hours and it's 4 p.m.

That is absolutely terrible.

Joe we are at 3 valves and I still have that stupid lean. It must be this one!!!