When do you start the engin...in winter

[Romano Faffard]

The bus is in a heated hangar for all winter 5 months fully plug.
Do we have to start the engin some times
a week, a month, and for how long???9092

[AmeriStar]

Great looking coach!
Frequent startups are the best thing you can do for your coach. Remember on a coach, the air system is critical to so many functions. Although running the engine and engaging the transmission into gear ( drive and reverse) is benificial, your air system will be best served by doing this at least once per month for 3 or 4 cycles of your air driver pop off.

[Coach Pro LLC]

I would concur with AmeriStar that it is best to start and run the coach to temperature / pressure at lease bi-monthly. And as he points out cycle the transmission, with park brake set, drive to reverse a few times to run the oil through the gallery. there is a Prevost installed electric block heater, basically an oven type electric coil, submerged in the oil pan and plugged into a GFCI outlet at the passenger side vertical pillar as you look at the engine. This may or may not be worth using prior to start up since the shop is heated, but in Quebec it's good to know it's there!

AmeriStar is right that the larger issue is the Prevost air system, which should be exercised regularly. There is (should be) a Schrader valve (automotive tire type) at the drivers lower compartment (by wind shield washer reservoir) and the opposite corner passenger rear above the chassis batteries. This is to plug in shop air with an every day spring clip tire chuck and inflate the coach without running the engine.

However, I would still run the engine and using the leveling system inflate / deflate all 3 positions a few times to cycle the valves and engine driven air compressor until the unloader "spits." Then return the leveling system to "drive" until the coach settles back to ride height.

That said, the best option overall would be to get in and drive to sunny Oregon where the fishing is excellent and the women are cautiously optimistic.

Great looking coach and shop!

[joelselman]

Personally (and w/o statistical data for support), I agree with all said EXCEPT I would not run the engine. Cold startups (even in a htd hanger) aren't that good for an engine and tend to dilute engine oil unless the oil is brought to full temperature for a period of time. It takes a long time to bring 10 gallons of engine oil to temp at idle speeds.

Additionally, preferably before storage while the engine is running to distribute fuel throughout, I would add some sort of fuel treatment to prevent algae.

[AmeriStar]

Joel,
In total agreement with not running the engine... I do see one problem, NONE of the other functions can be done without starting the engine.


Personally (and w/o statistical data for support), I agree with all said EXCEPT I would not run the engine. Cold startups (even in a htd hanger) aren't that good for an engine and tend to dilute engine oil unless the oil is brought to full temperature for a period of time. It takes a long time to bring 10 gallons of engine oil to temp at idle speeds.

Additionally, preferably before storage while the engine is running to distribute fuel throughout, I would add some sort of fuel treatment to prevent algae.

[joelselman]

The air systems can be exercised with external air or onboard aux compressor. I'd take my chances on the transmission.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

When running the engine to temp., monthly additionally cycle the OTR to keep the compressor seal lubed and supple to keep it's "seal".

Run your Webasto for some period to exercise it and to help bring the engine to temp. sooner.
.................................................. .................................................. .....................................
Curiously my block heater is not in the oil pan, it is in the side of the block in the coolant system.

JIM :)

[garyde]

Previous posts regarding this subject: run engine and bring up to temp once a month or so. Run everything, a/c's , otr, transmission, air level system, fans, water system, generator under 50% or more load.
All this takes is about one hour to do.
Remember, the more you use your bus , the better condition it will be in.

[Coach Pro LLC]

you are right and thank you. series 60 has the element in the block coolant jacket, passenger side. Most convertors pick up the Prevost outlet and wire to a non-inverter circuit in the AC breaker box, or add a dash switch to a remote breaker in that box.

[travelite]

Personally (and w/o statistical data for support), I agree with all said EXCEPT I would not run the engine. Cold startups (even in a htd hanger) aren't that good for an engine and tend to dilute engine oil unless the oil is brought to full temperature for a period of time. It takes a long time to bring 10 gallons of engine oil to temp at idle speeds.

Additionally, preferably before storage while the engine is running to distribute fuel throughout, I would add some sort of fuel treatment to prevent algae.

I think you're right Joel. Engines like load. Simply idling, even with the transmission in gear and brakes applied, typically won't create enough load. Diesel combustion at idle doesn't generate sufficient heat. Pistons, rings, and liners won't expand to normal operating clearances and tolerances. Combustion byproducts will blow past the rings and land in the oil raising the acidity of the oil. Moisture produced by the exhaust will collect in the exhaust system creating rust. Cylinder liners will glaze due to insufficient combustion pressures. Engines love to be under load and dislike idling and freewheeling. When my coach is stored, I get in it every 3 weeks and drive it for 50 to 60 miles. This is the only way to hit 30 psi of turbo boost on my DDEC IV 12.7L Series-60. If you want to store it for prolonged periods without driving it, then check out the DD S60 manual. In the manual, DD has outlined steps to take to prepare an engine for prolonged periods of non-operation.

[JIM KELLER]

Now thats the way to enjoy the Bus without getting it dirty !

[Romano Faffard]

Thanks you all for your infos...
I understand to run the engine with out reaching the normal temperature is not good. I would love to drive it 50 miles per month, but here, all the dirty snow and the salty roads, I cant do this to my Romano. I will pre eat the oil with the block eater, and take it out on a nice day just a peak and run the wobasto and the generator. For the air system, my secondary air pump run every day.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jacques,

If I had plans for long term storage I would be careful about a couple of things. I would not run the engine. In fact I would put the coach "to sleep". I would raise it fully via the ai bags and place supports under the body support points. I would then dump air bag air so the chassis is supported and little weight is on the tires. I might even go further and raise the tires a few CM off the floor. This is the best way to store tires which otherwise benefit from frequent flexing.

I would shut off all master switches, but if I suspected any phantom loads not disconnected with the master switches I would disconnect all battery grounds after the batteries were fully charged. I would monitor the batteries periodically and recharge as necessary. (Maybe once a month for example). I would not use the aux compressor to maintain air pressure (which reaches the aux system only) because it will introduce moisture to the system unless special steps are taken to remove moisture.

Our coaches are designed to be driven considerable distances regularly. Storage is not good, but when necessary steps need to be take to minimize the negative effects. I would attempt to rotate the wheels (assuming they have been clear of the floor) a few revolutions just to keep some oil around the seals. I would be vigilant about an over the road compressor seal (behind the clutch on the compressor) but would not agonize over leaving the compressor undisturbed.

All of this presumes the coach is stored in dry conditions or conditions in which temperatures are reasonably constant. Varying storage temperatures are sure to create condensation on the various metal parts like wheels, fittings, etc and will encourage rust and corrosion.

[Romano Faffard]

Thank jon.
Sorry about my english, we live in Quebec where we don't often use the shakespeare language.
Maybe i forgot to mention that we live periodicaly in the bus.
So the bus has to stay alive. we are fully plug-in in a environment that is keep at 68'F.

[BoaterAl]

I still can't get over how clean the roof is. Must be a Canada thing.

[Coloradobus]

Jacque and Sylvie,
We start our coach about every three weeks. I always look underneath the coach with a flashlight to look at the inside sidewalls of the tires looking for oil streaks. I run the horn, Level Low, the generator, the webasto, I exercise everything.
This time, last Wednesday, I spotted oil seeping down the inside sidewall of the curbside inner dual.
Called Colorado Charter, and for $200.00, parts included and 2 hours of my time, they can replace the seal.

[Romano Faffard]

To day i called the Prevost people 150 miles from here at St Nicolas near Quebec city. I talked to the service department, I asked the questions??? and.....
i was surprised... They said nothing, like... do nothing! dont start the engine or the generator or the wobasto, don't play with the suspension, don't need to jack it to, and they even add that a lot of owners leave their bus stand for long periods and they don't seem to have more problems than others. i even asked are your certain about this??? Yop!!! So now I am more puzzle !!!!

[travelite]

Jacques,

I think Prevost is right on. Most owners do more harm than good when they try to exercise their buses while stored in a facility. The only way to truly exercise the bus it to get in it and drive it for 50 miles (80 Km). If you can't do that, you probably are better off doing nothing. Periodically starting the engine with little more than and idle will lead to all the problems I described earlier. Trying to exercise the suspension with anything other than dry air is going to cause problems. Running an on board 120V air compressor will inject moisture into your air system. Probably the best you can do is dump the oil before storage and fill with fresh. Run the engine as described in the DD S60 manual for 30 day storage. Then leave it alone. The same with the generator. Keep it plugged in and keep your chargers on. I make this part of my annual service. Prior to parking for the winter I do my annual fluid/filters/chassis lube. Makes it easy remembering what I did and when. In Spring time I'm ready to hit the road.

[Pete]

Jacques, if the storage facility belongs to you, you may want to consider installing an exhaust hose that can be attached to your exhaust tip that will evacuate the fumes to the exterior of the building.
I did this and it worked great..it allows you to run the engine whenever you want. That is until I bought a bus with a flat exhaust tip. My previous coach had an 8v92, and the present one has a S60. I have not been able to find a hose attachment that will fit the flat exhaust tip. I have intentions of converting my flat tip to a round one so I can use the hose again. (just another option for you)

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Jacques, I am envious of your heated garage floor.

Just a caution here, don't take David's advise too literally, check out what you have for a chassis battery charger before you turn it on and leave it on. Many coaches have a charger that will "cook" your batteries if left "on" unattended. I am sure he meant the house battery chargers.

JIM:)

[Romano Faffard]

It is a good edea, but i have to a flat exhaust tip

[Romano Faffard]

Thank Jim
You must have seen the pictures? It the result of tree years of planification.
all my batteries chargers, the house, the engine, and the generator,
are somewhat intelligent, they stop went the batteries are full.
I see the reading on my electric board.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I disagree with the "do nothing" suggestion. I agree the engine and transmission are harmed by short runs that do not get everything up to temperature because when cold they create a lot of moisture and need to be operated at normal temperatures long enough to drive out that moisture.

But I can almost bet the tire people will not agree with letting the coach sit for long periods on the tires without exercising them. They are made with compounds that are released through flexing that tend to prevent sidewall cracking. They will "flat spot" if sitting for a long time. Tire manufacturers who have presented seminars have told us the best way to store tires not being used is how they do it in a warehouse and that is to take the weight off them such as if they were sitting in a tire rack.

As to air in the aux system which many of us need for dump valves or other systems used in the house I am not aware of any conversion that protects the aux system with a good air dryer. The aux compressor therefore has the potential to introduce moisture to the aux system and moisture will mess up a lot of aux system components, including the Norgren valves which are the heart of the suspension system. If it has to be stored and still be useable, at least avoid the use of aux compressor air.

Like Jim I suggest if you need to keep it alive, use the inverters to maintain the house batteries and not necessarily chargers. Our inverters have the proper charging protocol (if set correctly) and will preserve the batteries.

[travelite]

Jon,

I like the idea of getting the coach weight off the tires. My BB is equipped with HWH hydraulic jacks capable of lifting the entire coach off the ground. I always store it with the jacks deployed. Before I leave the garage I glance down each side of the coach at the base of the tires. With the coach weight off the axles, the tires have no bulge at the contact patch; the sidewalls are uniform around the entire circumference. The only weight on the tire is the unsprung weight. I've never had issues with flatspotting. By all means, if you can safely do so, taking the sprung weight off the tires is great advice.

[BoaterAl]

I also disagree with the "do nothing " in the life of a Prevost bus.
Often you get a car or truck in the service business that is just a few years old and when you see the mileage it's very high. When you ask about having any trouble with it, often the reply is , no drive it every day, everything original, just routine service, runs great. It was a better to buy high mileage daily use over the road and 1-2 years old. They just have less problems.

Million mile 18 wheelers used every day and the average monthly mileage of 12000 miles is not uncommon in the trucking industry, I'am told.

Here is a brain teaser for Jon.....I just heard about.....Now with "Super Singles" do we call 18 wheelers .....10 wheelers ?

"Only real men have 18 wheelers now"

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Hey, THREAD CREEP AL,

I drive an eight wheeler. If I went to super singles on the drive could I drive in the left hand lane when the sign says no vehicles over six wheels in the left hand lane?????? I think eighteen wheeler is a generic term that will be around long after 18 wheels are gone. Old farts like Harry and Dan still call their Sub Zeros iceboxes.

Adding to the thread creep..........If someone has super singles on the drive and their coach has been retrofitted with 365 tires on the front axle and the tag has the original 315 tires, what size do they carry as a spare?

We gotta quit playing around or Jacques isn't going to play with us. Jacques one thing you will learn is that this bunch of misfits shouldn't be giving anyone advice. We always answer every question, but the odds of any of the answers being correct is slim. BTW, welcome to the asylum in case nobody was polite enough to do so when you first posted.

[travelite]

BTW, welcome to the asylum in case nobody was polite enough to do so when you first posted.

Best darn $14.99 I ever spent!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

They make you pay????????

[BoaterAl]

I was nice to Jacques.....I posted that I liked his roof.

At least I wasn't included in the old fart list....that was close one.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I didn't see any need to comment on Jacques roof. I though all Liberty coaches and the coaches of other converters all looked that good. Apparently if you are commenting on the roof Marathon coaches don't meet that standard.

I didn't call you an old fart like I did the dynamic duo of Dan and Harry because I was trying to be nice to you so I can get Maddie.

Your turn.

[Mark3101]

I don't think you will see super singles take over any time soon. They are best for guys like fuel haulers that run short and almost always half empty too boot. When a super single goes out, it many times will take the rim along with it. Way too expensive a proposition for most at this point, plus the fact you can't get them everywhere like other tires. Our Michelin dealer and rep told us not to even think about them a couple of years ago. They were not for our kind of operation. One more disadvantage...they suck in snow!

[Danss]

Us old farts have had more crazy times than you sterile folks will ever have, some I can tell some I can't!!!

[Gary Carmichael]

I guess since I do not "store" my coach more than two months at a time, and that is not very often, I just keep on driving. I will drive 10-15,000 per year usually and love every minute of it. Megan complains that I won't let her drive very much, but it's just so enjoyable to drive one of these things. Maybe when I am eighty I will tire of travel but doubt it! We love the Prevost life and all the friends you make, I say drive them till the wheels run off, and I do not think most of use will be around long enough to do that!