Wheel Lugs

[Woodscrapper]

I just finished placing new shocks on the steer axle and I thought it would be much easier to do the job if the wheels were removed. And while removed, I could check for myself the brake pads and disc. Also it would be a good time to patch up the insulation and undercoating on the wheel wells. Now I don't have one of those fancy and pricey torque multiplier wrenches so I proceeded with a 3/4" drive socket with a 6' cheater bar (galvanized pipe purchased at Lowes). With much grunting, I managed to remove the curb side front wheel and, thanks to Jon's recommended tool, moved the wheel out of the way with Northern Tool's $50 wheel dolly. In tackling the road side wheel, no matter how much the grunting and cussing, I could not budge a single lug nut - even with a three foot extension on the cheater bar. As it turns out, I ended up bending the cheater bar. All of this brings me to the question of how tight should lug nuts be torqued (450 ftlbs ?) and what are the inherent risks of tightening too tight? Also, I'm curious as to how other POG'ers handle this task?

As a side note, I carefully inspected the threads on both the studs and the nuts for any evidence of stripping and found a couple of lugs that were border line - they got replaced.

Merry Christmas to all!

[Pete]

Could thread direction come into play?

[Woodscrapper]

Pete,

Good question but I try to keep my hat on straight and use the right hand rule.

[truk4u]

Good job Tom, you were just kidding about the right hand rule, correct? The driver side is left hand threads just in case. I don't have a torque wrench big enough, but I just run them on with the big impact that took them off and call it a day.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Note the letter "L" in the center of the stud, that indicates (left hand thread).

A torque wrench with the proper range 450 '# has a 42" long handle, that is all you will need for a plain wrench, NOT 6'.

[Kenneth Brewer]

Use the 'X12' torque multiplier, I think many, if not most of us, have this tool. Sooner or later, you will want/need it. There are times (often) when the truck tire shops cannot loosen lug nuts with their impact wrenches, and have to go get this tool from the tool crib. You can use standard torque wrenches, you'll only need 50-60 ft lbs or so to tighten. No problem. I would never use a large impact wrench to tighten lug nuts, because it isn't tightening that's the problem. With an impact wrench I would use a torque stick. Perhaps you can find the thread archived here. An average 10 year old can loosen or tighten using the X12. But it is expensive. Here is a link: times12.com/wrench.htm

[Woodscrapper]

Tom,

Yes of course I am kidding. When I had new tires put on the front I did not observe the installation. I'm pretty sure the tire company used an air wrench instead of a torque wrench to tighten the lugs.

[Woodscrapper]

Jim,

Thanks for your input and yes I noted the L & R turn on the threads. As I indicated to Tom, in having new tires placed on the steer axle, I believe the local tire shop used an air wrench to tighten the lugs and evidently ran them up hard. My set-up was too limber with the galvanized pipe so I need to come up with something different. Due to a weak back, I could only handle the set-up with the pipe parallel to the ground and once I applied my weight the pipe flexed almost to the ground. As Ken suggests, the X12 would handily handle the job but the price of it is too rich for my pocket book.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Tom,

Whenever you need to tackle jobs like that give me a call. I have an X-12 you can use.

If you overtorque the nuts it can crack the aluminum wheels around the lug nut hole. I have NEVER seen a tire shop torque a wheel. But then again a tire shop usually sticks the low man on the totem pole with the heaviest jobs and usually with little or no training.

I buy my tires unmounted and I demount and mount my own tires and torque them myself. Less painful than watching someone beat up my aluminum wheels even though I grunt a lot.

[Kenneth Brewer]

Tom,

Whenever you need to tackle jobs like that give me a call. I have an X-12 you can use.

If you overtorque the nuts it can crack the aluminum wheels around the lug nut hole. I have NEVER seen a tire shop torque a wheel. But then again a tire shop usually sticks the low man on the totem pole with the heaviest jobs and usually with little or no training.

I buy my tires unmounted and I demount and mount my own tires and torque them myself. Less painful than watching someone beat up my aluminum wheels even though I grunt a lot.

I have never experienced a shop torque lug nuts either - until I moved to Texas (hint). ONE shop, in my experience, W&W Tire here in Boerne, torques all lug nuts, whether buying tires or having them rotated. But they are not really an inventory truck tire stocking shop (and their Michelin distributor doesn't handle the 365). And Jon is right, overtightening is a problem; what I meant was, tightening isn't the task on side of the road that requires a long cheater.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

This past Qctober I had a three axle alignment, tie rod and steering rod ends R&R at Prevost Nashville. The process required the front wheels to be removed and re installed. The mechanic/technician asked me do I want my lug nuts tightened with a torque wrench or would an impact wrench be OK? Needles to say, I was impressed. I said "torque wrench of course". He even new the sequence of tightening!!

Other work was performed in a similar manner. I will go back for work I am unable to perform myself.

Words to ponder about the X-12, If you are feeling challenged physically, the tool is heavy in it's own right and one becomes easily fatigued just holding the tool in position and moving it from one nut to the other. This is especially true when removing and installing all wheels successively.

JIM :)

JIM

[garyde]

Regarding Tire changes. Its probably a good idea to have a conversation with the company you are considering. Its hard to have a check list for everything you have someone work on, but it helps to be prepared. Tow Truck drivers and Tire companies are two you should watch out , and keep them on the defensive until you feel comfortable.

[BoaterAl]

Jim, You made the right call with the torque wrench and breaker bar. I agree with Gary as a check list for the reinstallation should be discussed. Understanding out on the road an impact run up would be fine. Then once off the highway a recheck and proper torque. What kind of a tire shop would not have a breaker 450 bar with all the info available today ?

FWIW dept. torque wrenches need to be checked often to assure they are working to specs. They do wear out and take a lot of abuse bouncing off the concrete daily.
On shop owned tools this was important if you were only use the torque wrench as to installing the lug nuts. Breaker bars should be in every truck shop set at 450 lbs. Caring tire shops will usually run the lug nuts up tight, then rotate torque to 450lbs. At the check out you should be invited to recheck after 100 miles.

[Mark3101]

Using the right torque wrench is the only way to make sure you don't under or over torque the nuts. We had an issue with some trailers that kept having stud failures on the road. We found that one of our shops was using a torque stick with an extension, and that the values were quite a bit lower than specified. The people involved knew better, but thought they were saving so much time that it was worth it. After a couple of tires and rims left some trailers, it was proven to them that they were wrong!! We spent more money on new wrenches and calibration, but our stud problems pretty much went away.

[johnklopp]

Jon's torque multiplier is definitely the top of the line. Around a year ago I decided to see if I could find one for a better price or a cheap one that would work. I succeeded in finding a cheap one on ebay that actually has a greater torque multiplier. It cost around $175 including shipping. Comes in a plastic case with several impact sockets to fit various lug nuts. Just do a search on ebay, the same guy is still selling them.

[Denny]

Was the problem with the torque stick the extension or was the torque stick not accurate? I have a 450 lb TS but do not use an extension. Thanks

[Mark3101]

Was the problem with the torque stick the extension or was the torque stick not accurate? I have a 450 lb TS but do not use an extension. Thanks

I think it was a combination. The gun they were using had a handle that got in the way, so they put the extension on to get around that problem. The torque stick they were using also was not doing it's job alone, so we got rid of it. Some sticks are close, but the wrench is still the best.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

A word of caution that was told to me many years ago by the owner of the company that sells the X-12.

He suggested when using a torque wrench with the X-12 to use 50 ft. lbs as the setting on the torque wrench. To my way of thinking that makes the actual torque 600 ft. lbs. because 50 X 12 is 600. He said the extra is to compensate for friction losses through the torque converter. I don't know if he was correct, or if he was blowing smoke, but that is what I have used and so far have never cracked a wheel or damaged one due to the lug nuts scoring the chamfer. But I also have never been able to run a torque test after tightening with the X-12. So maybe 40 ft. llbs (480 ft. lbs at the nut) may be OK or maybe not. Don't know.