Tips for out standing Service

[LarryB]

Do you tip for great service?
How great does the work have to be for a tip?
What do you base the tip on and how much.

I have tipped once, not sure I got outstanding service or I was suffering from the 'Stockholm Syndrome', just excited to get the bus back in one piece and it didn't cost me an arm and a leg.

Thanks

[Jon Wehrenberg]

First define great service. If you take the bus in for work on a laundry list of items such as oil change, lube, replace a hub seal, and a few routine items does great service mean you got what you paid for? And being a cynic are you sure when you pay the bill that the right oil was put in the coach, the new hub seal is not leaking and that the bearings are lubed and in the oil bath? Or is good service a polite mechanic that seems to have done a good job?

I think a gratuity is justified if the mechanic does what he is asked to do, plus he cares enough about you and his job to go beyond what he is doing to identify other items that need attention and deal with those issues as he would if the coach was his. The only problem there is unless you are really familiar with your coach and its mechanicals you might be getting scammed or you might have a mechanic going beyond the call of duty. I think a tip is justified if you are in a position to clearly understand the mechanic went far beyond what was required.

In those instances when I gave a tip to the mechanic I watched him work. I watched him do what was on my list, and he did it with great care making sure to keep everything clean, and at the same time he went beyond what was asked by reviewing the service bulletins and the coach service history. Then in just general discussions he learned there were some things that were annoying but had not risen to the level of needing repair, but he went ahead and corrected them also. He deserved and got a tip especially since I only paid for the the work I originally scheduled.

But I have also had some great mechanical work done but the mechanic(s) only did what they were asked and nothing more. The work was perfect, but that is their job.

We often accept lousy work, accept the cost of return visits to repair what should have been fixed right the first time, and I think we are confusing quality work done right the first time with exceptional work that goes beyond expectations. I think when work is done right now in most cases it exceeds our expectations

Spoken as a former newsboy who depended on tips.

[rickdesilva]

I'v always had great service at Prevost NJ and originally attempted to tip them but they have a rule of not accepting tips. But I am always sure to give them a great report on their survey after the service. Most vehicle manufacturers reward employees who take care of the customer.

[phorner]

First define great service......
I think a gratuity is justified if the mechanic does what he is asked to do, plus he cares enough about you and his job to go beyond what he is doing to identify other items that need attention and deal with those issues as he would if the coach was his.....

Spoken as a former newsboy who depended on tips.

I agree completely with Jon.

If you have the opportunity to spend considerable time with the technician working on your bus (personally, I never leave the bus alone with anyone working on it if at all possible) you will soon be able to clearly see the difference between someone simply doing his job ( and that's not necessarily a bad thing if it's done right) and someone who enjoys what he is doing, taking extra care not to soil anything, looks "beyond" the minimum required to do the job and readily shares his thoughts, ideas and concerns with you. To me, there is value associated with having someone with real mechanical acumen working on my bus as opposed to someone who is simply a parts-changer.

Several times I've had technicians make suggestions that turned out to be real solutions to "challenges" I had arrived with (such as a much better installation of my Air Force One braking unit on the bus) that added to the reliability of the bus and provided me with better peace of mind.

If you spend enough time observing the work done on your bus, you will be able to identify those that really care about the finished job and your satisfaction with it.

[Woodscrapper]

Jon,

Amen! My sentiments exactly. Why pay extra for work that should be done with quality products and by a skilled, knowledgeable service technician? That should be their job! I wonder if anyone has ever been escorted out of a service bay when their coach is in for service and/or repair. I have had it explained to me that customers in the service bays presents a problem with their insurance coverage. Just wondering and a little off subject.

[BoaterAl]

Tom, I have been escorted out of a few saloons.....is that the same ?

[Woodscrapper]

Al,

Close but not quite. The last time I was escorted out of a saloon was in New Orleans because I didn't have a coat and tie!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

We have enough businessman company owners here on this forum to sample to see if anyone has ever had their company insurance mandate no guests or visitors in the shop.

Most of my shops have been in manufacturing and as such we had some very dangerous equipment and operations. We had 300 ton presses, overhead cranes, fork lifts carrying 6000 pound bundles of steel, etc. I NEVER had an insurance company limit or restrict who I could allow in my shop and when. NEVER EVER.

When Prevost moved from Wilson Ave. in Jacksonville to the current facilty off of Phillips Highway I went there for service. I wasn't allowed to even drive my coach into the bay. According to Cecil the service manager the insurance company would not allow owners in the shop to watch the service, and all owners were to wait in the lounge. I don't remember the date but it was in the early to mid nineties. That was the last time Prevost ever worked on my coach. That was the beginning of me doing all my own work.

Prevost has changed their policy, but too late to get me back as a customer for service

[gmcbuffalo]

So what do you give 10, 15 or the mandatory San Francisco 20%? I have a friend whose son mechanics at a high end autodealer. If the mechanics can do the work under the repair books allotted time they get a bonus, so they share in the profit/ Are we going to get to the point of where mechanics are going to be depending on tips for income and big tippers get their work done first? I find that in the tip depended industries tips are expected not earned.

[LNDYCHT]

Having been a Mechanic all my working life I have been on both sides of the fence. Although I have been tipped many times I have never tipped a Mechanic. I believe that the tips that I have received have been from clients who felt that the service they received was beyond their expectations. Although some of the service that I have received met my expectations most of it did not.
I know that many of you watch the technician as they work on your Coach, I try to avoid it. Personally if I have a client that wants to be with me and watch as I work I feel there must be a trust issue. If they trust my work, have confidence in my diagnoses and repairs then there is no reason for them to be there. If they want to know what was done or what will be done I have no problem in explaining what is being done. If they would like instructions on how to complete the repair them selves there is technical training and manuals available. If you ask the mechanic if he minds if you watch and he has no issue that is one thing. I know for a fact that many mechanics would much rather be left alone to do their job. I don't think that the quality of work performed will change if you are watching unless your skill level is greater than the service provider and they are willing to follow your instructions.

I have never had an insurance policy that required me to keep customers out of the shop but I know many that use this excuse to do so.

Wiktionary Definition:
mechanic (plural mechanics)
1.A skilled worker capable of building or repairing machinery. A mechanic can be compared to a technician, the distinction being that the technician is stronger in theory, the mechanic stronger in hands-on experience

[Larry W]

Remember seeing a sign in a shop years ago. Am adjusting the numbers for 2011.
Labor $100 an hour.
If you watch $150 an hour
If you help $200 an hour

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I agree with Lee, but if I were to bring my coach for service I would be remaining with it until I developed that trust. A review of the various posts outlining the experiences some POG members have had over the years shows that even expert repair facilities have screwed up royal. Some owners have learned to specify a given mechanic due to bad experiences with other mechanics.

The problem is in the details. Unless we as owners actually know and understand the repair process we don't know for sure if the mechanic is to tighten the axle nut on hub seal replacement to a specified torque value or to measure runout. But as an amateur I do know I would expect to see my mechanic pick up a torque wrench or a dial indicator. I also know by watching if the mechanic is clean, or if he prelubed the bearing, if he even examined the bearings and the races, and if he beat the seal in with a hammer or if he was very careful about installing it. My point is the only way to develop the trust is to observe how the mechanic works. Anybody can bumble their way through a hub seal replacement for example, and because of luck get it back together without it leaking. The key however is in the attention to detail and unless the owner is there to observe he will never know if it is safe to leave the coach unattended the next time it needs repairs.

Maybe others have this opinion about mechanics. Some are very happy to have an interested owner and are more than willing to be watched. But some do not want anyone watching them work because as Lee says they feel they are not trusted. Two POG members (to use my hub seal replacement as the topic) have had drive axle bearings seize and their coaches end up on trailers requiring substantial repairs to the damaged drive axles. Had those owners observed the repair they might have realized the mechanic never took pains to insure the drive axle bearings were properly lubed. In both cases the repair shop was one with "professionals".

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Agreeing with Jon's previous posts with the addition of when to tip.

Tipping to me is for special things not doing what is expected in the first place.
Examples of what I consider as tipable circumstances are;
...agreeing to work overtime to complete a job begun...
...coming to work early to start a job...
...fitting me in to an already full work load...
...agreeing to take on a job/perform a task/operation that they don't particularly want to do...

Insurance rules do not prevent customers in a shop/factory environment, management does and in my opinion it is because they do not want you to view what is going on inside, such as working on more than one job at one time and charging for the full time you were waiting,you know cheating the customer, a dirty and or unsafe work environment that you would question in your mind as to why you are there having work done.

JIM

[Sawbonz]

In both cases the repair shop was one with "professionals".

A professional is someone who gets paid to do a job, not necessarily someone who is good at that job!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

My bad. Should have used the word "experts".

[LNDYCHT]

The bottom line is that when you bring your coach in to a shop you have certain expectations of what will be done. We want the repairs or service done properly in a reasonable amount of time at a price which we feel is fair. Any more then that is service beyond your expectations.

Watching a "tech" does not change his skill level, as I said before unless you know more then him and can effect his repairs the outcome will be the same. I do feel that repairs should be completed by a shop that you trust and feel comfortable with or is at least recommended. In the case of a breakdown we can not always control where the repairs are completed.

I have had warranty repairs completed on my coach and overseen the repairs. In this case both the tech and Icould not fit in the space where the repairs were to be completed. I watched as he read the instructions step by step. He would work on the coach and then read some more, I spoke with him and he was happy to share what he was doing. When the repairs were complete I assumed they were correct... When I returned to my shop I printed the repair instructions and inspected the job. Not all instructions had been followed and the last step had been omitted. Me watching and being there did not change the level of work performed.

[phorner]

In my opinion, being with the technician and observing while my bus is being serviced serves several purposes for me:

1. I am immediately available if the technician has a question or wants to point out areas of concern that I may need to make a decision on. More than once I have authorized additional work when problems have been pointed out to me BEFORE everything was re-assembled or the bus removed from the service bay. TIME IS MONEY.

2. I am able to learn from someone far more experienced (hopefully!) than I am, so I am maximizing the value to me of my dollars spent.

3. I will now have first-hand knowledge of how something has been taken apart/reassembled in the event of failure of the service work while on the road... enables me to more accurately describe the problem to any responding emergency repair personnel or if I need to return to the repair facility and deal with a different technician.

4. It has been my experience that the majority of technicians appreciate that I actually have an interest in the "mechanics" of my bus...that I'm not just some presumed "rich guy with a toy" that is clueless about the workings of the bus who couldn't be bothered to get his hands dirty.

5. Most importantly, I get to report more specific details of the service to my fellow POGers in order that we may ALL learn something from my experience...:cool:

At least, that's how it's worked out for me...

[BoaterAl]

Owning a NAPA store is a learning experience on skill level of some mechanics or technicians as they like to be called. Only one shop worked on my delivery trucks, 5 plus a spare. All were Chevy S-10's rotated one or more every year. This was a way to keep some uniform repairs and parts available rather then have 3 brands of trucks. The same shop working on the trucks gave us experience in the overall maintenance program to keep these trucks on the road, spend the money when the truck was in the shop to prevent breakdowns (PM). This is a great topic but the experience of taking my bus into a shop on the road scares the hell out of me. I have no comfort level. It's a crap shoot to get the repair right the first time. I need to trust the tech has the skill level to preform the level of repair.
I believe we have some fleet owners on POG that can relate having many of the same on a larger level makes good sense and better cost control of parts, shop labor, and down time.
Jon, Paul and Lee have posted excellent points on repairs to our high dollar toys. You just have to trust who you take it too and sadly if the repair is bad we have to spend more of our dollars most of the time to straighten it out.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Over the years on several forums I have read many posts from owners about their repair experiences. If we could plot the posts on a graph we would find some owners got screwed and were vey unhappy. A similar amount of owners were very pleased and feel they got more than their money's worth. In the middle will be the vast majority who were satisfied.

This is solely my opinion, but I think those who were satisfied or who felt they got more than their money's worth all went to the "experts" (See, Karl, I do listen). They went to their converter, or to Prevost, or to a shop where the folks are experts at working on conversions and the folks have years of experience. Those who were not satisfied seem to fall into several categories. The first is they did go to "experts" but for whatever reason the mechanic just did not do the job right. The second is they went to "experts" but the shop lacked expertise in the specific area of the problem. They might have asked a bus mechanic to trouble shoot the generator for example. The third reason might be that they took the coach to someone who did not have a clue. There are a lot of "cheap" mechanics who will tell you how good they are, but unless you really know what is going on you find out the hard way they cannot fix the leans because it is way beyond their expertise.

As consumers, we tend to be defenseless unless we have good knowledge of our mechanicals and systems, and that is not our job. That is why we use professionals. My experience with other mechanics is limited, but as several POG members have learned, observing the work a mechanic does is beneficial and while it may not guarantee a successful repair I think it does improve the odds.

[phorner]

Jon makes a very good point.

Probably the most realistic expectation is to take your bus to the the most qualified facility that you can find, pay close attention to what is being done, and hopefully you will tip the odds in your favor for having a satisfactory experience.

One would think that at the hourly rates being charged that it would be considerably better odds than a crap shoot.

Personally, I try to take Prevost issues to Prevost, converter issues to the converter and do my best to accomplish as much work as I can myself within the limitations of my space, tools and abilities.

Nobody, repeat NOBODY, will care more about the condition of your bus than you, no matter how much you're paying per hour.

[redprevost]

One more reason to have a section on pog devoted to those repair shops/folks, who do it right.And do not think just because you went to prevost the outcome will always be wonderful.I had my coach at prevost fort worth,and if I never go back there it will be too soon.For what I paid and the service I did not get,I was very unhappy.They were friendly enough,but missed half of the grease zerks,and my 5000 dollar ot road air repair did not get thru the summer/just my 5 cents worth/

[Sid Tuls]

redprevost, for what its worth I would call prevost set up a meeting and let out all your problems and tell them how pissed off you are!!! I bet you a steak dinner something will be done to get you satisfied. I have yet to be unhappy with the service I recieve at Prevost. I just turned 110,000 miles on it in the last almost 4 years. It's the only place that has ever serviced my bus. Ok i had a few minor things done elsewhere like Zip Dee motors for my shades but that about it. Give them another shot or come get your free steak!!!

I service my bus every 10,000 miles