ANYONE KNOW THE REASON WHY??

[Coloradobus]

We are contemplating a small toad. Been looking at Ford Ranger Stick shift 4X4 which is the guides say with tranny stick in neutral and transfer case twist knob in the 2Hi position. Rangers have remained unchanged from 1993 to 2011. Rangers can be towed for unlimited miles, but at ONLY 55 mph.. Anyone know a mechanical reason why one can't tow a Ford Ranger manual 4X4 faster than 55 mph.

Car Two: Anyone tow or know someone who tows a Honda Element All wheel Drive.
Blue Ox makes baseplates for 2002 Elements and up to 2009. The current FMCA guides don't list the Element. The one we have looked at is 2007, and most RV guides don't even list the Element. Who knows the procedure,, we don't have an owers manual yet to read , "HOW TO"

[garyde]

I would ask Steve Bennett. He has had a variety of tow vehicles over the last few years.

[merle&louise]

Jim & Chris,

I tow a 2005 Honda Pilot AWD and the towing procedure is simple.

1. With the engine running put transmission in D for a minute, then put it in neutral
2. Turn engine off and put ignition key in the first position (allows steering wheel to turn)
3. Tow for 8 hours then stop and start Honda - run it thru the gears making sure that D is the last gear selected then put it in neutral.
4. You are good for another 8 hours
5. Maximum speed 65 mph

I would assume that the Honda Element has the same routine

Hope this helps

[lbriant]

I have Towed a Honda accord in an automatic all over the united states it finally shot craps down in the Florida keys one year, it was a good car Honda at the time was one of the only cars I knew of in a front wheel drive that you could tow 4 wheels down,
Then we towed up till now a 2002 Toyota Camry 4 cyl 5 speed, its still set up for towing but we just upgraded to a 4 door Jeep Rubicon and Wow I will never tow anything else what a vehicle it is an automatic but they make them for towing, No steering lock no key necessary in ign to tow + lots of fun
Jeeps are like yet another club :) Too Fun
Have a Blessed Holiday Season !!

[Coloradobus]

Thanks for info.
We have outfitted a number of vehicles to tow over the last 12 years.
Some using Roadmaster baseplates with their MX adaptor so we could use a Blue Ox Adventa II, and the majority using all Blue Ox

Here is the list:
98 Jeep Grand Cherokee
00 Chevy K2500 gas powered 4X4
00 Saturn SW2
99 Land Rover Range Rover
03 Land Rover Disco
04 Chevy Duramax 4X4
01 Land Rover Disco
97 E-350 Ford Van converted into Airstream Class B (Remco driveshaft Dissconniect)
04 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
99 Lexus LX 470

All t he above had NO Speed Resrtriction or distance restrcition except the Saturn was labelled for a 65 mph due to liablilty NOT mechanical speed limits.
You could say we have kept Blue OX in business over the years.

I need a Ford officianado who can specifically tell me whether or not, there is a mechanical reason a Ford Ranger 4X4 manual shift has a towing speed resrtcition of 55 mph. We know the automatic needs a driveshaft disconnect on the rear like Capt Moguls Tacoma,. I have spoken with 3 Ford dealershoip service centers, and they all pulled a book out and quoted policy.
Several years ago, we weren't willing to accept Toyota's note that a Land Cruioser/ LX 470 was not towable. Reverse engineerring proved otherwise. I don't have the same type of "contacts" with a Ford product. Is there a mechanical reason a 4-by Ranger has the speed restriction.
When they were open, I got a hhold of a Saturn engineer to ask why a 65 mph speed restiction of the SL/SW2. I explained we lived in the west where our major hiways max out at 75 mph. This engineer told me that since Tennessee's speed limit was 65 mph, that's what they rated the Saturns to be towed at.
Having experiecnes with the above listed cars, is the Ranger's 55 mph limit , a mechanical or liability speeed limit? Anyone??

[Seabyrd]

I would want one with NO restrictions... wouldn't want to have to watch speed, hours or distance !! Lots of good ones out there too.
We have always towed Jeeps & Chevy 4X4s without restrictions or problems. Just my thoughts for what its worth !!

[Coloradobus]

We would be interested in a "used" Colorado or Canyon by GM, but low mileaged used ones are scarce. We have many Ford Rangers by comparison available at reasonable prices. There only a handful of Dodge Dakota, and they all have high miles.
So, that leaves us to look at Rangers.

[RonAltman]

We are contemplating a small toad. Been looking at Ford Ranger Stick shift 4X4 which is the guides say with tranny stick in neutral and transfer case twist knob in the 2Hi position. Rangers have remained unchanged from 1993 to 2011. Rangers can be towed for unlimited miles, but at ONLY 55 mph.. Anyone know a mechanical reason why one can't tow a Ford Ranger manual 4X4 faster than 55 mph.

Car Two: Anyone tow or know someone who tows a Honda Element All wheel Drive.
Blue Ox makes baseplates for 2002 Elements and up to 2009. The current FMCA guides don't list the Element. The one we have looked at is 2007, and most RV guides don't even list the Element. Who knows the procedure,, we don't have an owers manual yet to read , "HOW TO"

I can't speak for the Honda Element other than several years back they were towable all 4 down along with many of the Honda models. For some reason Honda changed that and only allowed the CRV to be towed all 4 down and I believe that is correct to the present. Concerning the Ford Ranger not being towed in excess of 55mph, I can think of no other reason other than at higher speeds the fluids in the transmission and gearboxes are sloshing around to an extent that proper lubrication can not be properly maintained.

[Will Garner]

Jim and Chris,

Not a Ford guy. I've had some through the years and they provided good, reliable transportation. A 4x4 with the transfer case in neutral should not be a speed limiting problem. Could it be that Ford just doesn't want the Ranger to feel what speeds above 55 are like?

On a more serious note, and I know of one western state that imposes a "strict enforcement" of the double nickles speed limit for RV's that are towing anything. Could that be what is limiting the towing speed in the literature.

On a different note, why not just slow down a little bit and enjoy the lifestyle as the rest of the world goes streaming by at audaciously outrageous speeds well above any posting?

Have you tried going to Ford's website and posting the question? Also, have you gone to Honda's website to see if an Element Owner's Manual is available for reading on line? You might try posing the same questions that you pose to Ford just for customer service comparisons. I wanted to buy one of those cute little Transit Connects from Ford. The sales person went to the factory and within a couple of days came back with the answer being it can be towed four down, so long as the down was on a trailer! The TC is manufactured in Turkey and only carries a Ford label so that was another bummer.

[Coloradobus]

Thanks Will and Ron,
When in the coach, with our gearing attached to the 8V ( tallest rear gearing out of 23 Beaver Bus's found {3.56-1}), we speed along at at whopping 62 mph with the tach pegging 2100 RPM.
I know there are many other toads one could consider, but for the occasional requirement of needing a Pickup for the jobsite, that's why the Ranger is the topic.
We have an aging Chevy C-1500 4X4, that needs some attention, ( A/C repair. tires, windshield, paint, maybe brakes and a clutch.) Sinking that kind of money into a 1991 truck doesn't make sense/cents.
Chris primarily drives the Chevy for business, but on rare occasions employees drive it, around town,. It would be nice to have a more professional looking, cleaner looking vehicle that on occasion can drag the utility trailer to the dump and that is a 4X4 to get out of the dump, can haul a 38 inch tall Carpet shampooer, transport a frig or stove to a unit, haul bags of leaves from Chris's mom's yard, etc.
Most of the Toyota Tacomas we have looked at have way over 100K miles, and those that don't have the miles, have almost new price tags. Most all small trucks here in Colorado are 4X4, because 2WD's are helpless in the snow.
We like the Transit Connect, and thought about putting one on a tow dolly since they are frontwheel drive. We may further explore them. Don't know anything about them, or how they ride. Its just a thought about towing something like a Ranger. We don't need another toad per say ,since we have the Lexus. But if the opportunity presents itself, a small truck may find itself behind the Airstream 270 Class A.
Whatever we look at, it needs to have at minimum a 40 inch rear hatch opening, oir be open air.
We still have the Remco driveshaft disconnect system from the Ford E-350 Aisrtream Class B Van, and possibly install it on a non-towable small truck.
The lubrication issue that Ron posted above is probably the reason, but I would lkie a Ford drivetrain expert to confirm or not the reason for the speed resrtriction.
As for THAT western state mentioned above , the 55 mph isn't just for RV's towing, its any vehicle towing, including the likes of a Honda Goldwing towing a small trailer. Any vehicle towing, regardless of what, is to travel the posted 55mph. That's why from Blythe to Palm Springs, we often detach, drive separately, to speed up to 62-64. Any faster in the coach, and our mileage of 5.6-6.1 mpg drops drastically to under 5 mpg

[treedoc]

Jim. Have you ever considered changing your rear gears to a higher gear for better fuel mileage? Rick

[merle&louise]

treedoc,

Changing the rear gears ! How much better mileage would the Prevost get ?

[treedoc]

Tuga That would depend on the gear ratio. I changed the rear gears in one of my work trucks. I needed a lower gear for starting power on hills and had 7 choices! If a 8v is getting 5mpg and you could increase 1mpg that would be a increase of 20%. It would interesting to find out if someone has done a gear change and the mileage increase. Rick

[Orren Zook]

Have you ever considered changing your rear gears to a higher gear for better fuel mileage?

Don't forget, that since our engines are in the rear of the coach, the ring & pinion in a bus application turn opposite to those on OTR trucks. When I looked into the feasibility of making this gear change earlier this year there were limited ratios available and the prices I was quoted were pretty high.

[Steve Bennett]

Jim, I would have to check to see what the ratio is in our coach. We typically run @ 68 MPH, when outside of california and are turning about 1,800 RPM. I am getting between 5.5-6.0 MPG at those speeds. Ray Davis is coming out to plug his new I-Pad reader in our coach soon, so we will be able to give you some additional info. Our coach has the injectors & turbo for a 500HP application, but we have the DDEC set at 450H.P. We see peak boost of about 24 LBS, and 1,000 degrees on the EGT @ lower elevations. We have to be careful @ using full throttle at the higher altitudes, as the DDEC over fuels the engine, and we can see elevated exhaust temps.

[Coloradobus]

Just re-checked our build sheet. I have errored. We have a 3.58 rear ratio nota 3.56. There was 2 choices in 1992 for rear gear ratio, and the box for 3.58 has been checked. There other choice was 3.73.
When our speedo says 62, our GPS says 64. At this speed, our RPM says 2050-2100. At 75 on the speedo, the tach says 2300. In 4th gear, speedo is at 57, tach at 2200. We don't know what our top speed is. Guess I need to run it out. I thought 75mph at 2300 RPM was fast enough when I did that experiment. We don't generally travel any faster than the 62 on speedo/64 mph on gps
As a 1992 shell, we have the DD rated 500 hp 8V. We climb hills pretty easy and the pyros don't get too excited,.. Going to towards Breckenridge up I-70 outside of Golden, Colorado on the steep grade, we are in 2nd gear doing around 35-37, pyros at 1000 degrees, radiator stays happy at 185. Even in 2nd at the Eisenhour Tunnels, the pyros don't heat too badly, at 30mph they are at 1100 and radiator doesn't go over 190 degrees. This summer, climbing hills in Missouri no OTR, radiator was at 195 with pyros at 1000-1050 in 3rd gear with outside temps in the 110-115 range
The coach's radiator fan has been changed out from the metal one to one with 9 plastic blades.
Going up the Baker grade on I-15 eastbound in 4th to 3rd gear, we can easly keep the radiator at 185-190 with the pyros at about 975-1050. These measurements are towing 5700 lbs of Lexus.

[mike kerley]

JIm, our 93 runs at 62 MPH at 1750 RPM. We normally stay in that range with 8" to 10" of boost. Our tach does not allways correct as fast as it should, but its old....For fuel economy, I watch the boost presure more than anything, when its up at 10 or above on cruise, I'm either fighting a head wind, on an incline or have the brakes set on the toad... My best economy comes at about 8" boost and 62/1750. I'll do 5.5 to 6.0 pulling a Jeep Commander loaded with "stuff".. Not sure what gearing we have.

[Coloradobus]

Mike, I found from Elgin Prevost-Roger that they can send the entire build sheets for each of our coaches. From handwritten notes to sheets with boces to check for options.
I discovered on our sheets that our coach and I will assume all shells order by Beaver Coach have the "Astral Window" frames in the ceiling even with the 2nd and 3rd Le Mirage side window.
Notes state not to cut the metal in the roof for the windows. So I would assume Beaver did this as an option for customer. We have identified only 4 Beaver Busses so far that have the ceiling windows in the salon.,

[Coloradobus]

These speeds were judged from the GPS, not the Speedo. The only Speedo reading that was same as GPS was at 70 mph. The rest were 2-3 miles slower.

Here's the poop from our test run out on the plains east of Denver with little wind.
1ST gear topped out at 2500 RPM at 28 mph
2nd gear topped out at 2500 RPM at 39 mph
3rd gear topped out at 2500 RPM at 50 mph
4th gear topped out at 2500 RPM at 62 mph
5th gear Topped out at 2480 RPM at 78 mph

At 60 mph at 1950 RMM Boost was 5
At 65 mph at 2075 RPM Boost was 6
At 70 mph 2220 RPM Boost was 7
At 75 mph 2390 RPM Boost was 9-10 a little wind/hill
At 76 mph 2420RPM topped out Boost was

[Coloradobus]

To get back on topic, the Ford Ranger best suits our need for both work and play for its size. For comfort, the seat works well with my back issues. So, does anyone have any ideas or knowledge why the Ranger 4X4 with manual stick, has a speed restriciton of 55 mph with no distance limits. Is it a liability for Ford, or is there a mechanical reason. We haven't bought one yet, and other small trucks just don't work for my back. A Ranger is our ONLY consideration for a work/play truck, mostly work, but if we can tow it, we may. Otherwise, we will sink money into our old Chevy work truck we already own and spruce it up.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

[QUOTE=Coloradobus;79224]We are contemplating a small toad. Been looking at Ford Ranger Stick shift 4X4 which is the guides say with tranny stick in neutral and transfer case twist knob in the 2Hi position. Rangers have remained unchanged from 1993 to 2011. Rangers can be towed for unlimited miles, but .................


Jim, Just sayin here and not for you to rely on it too much, but the way I understand it the good part about 4X4 for towing is that all you do is put the transfer case in neutral,.........NOT the other way round as stated above.

Aditionally if towing as you indicate and something goes wrong, HOW would anyone but you know WHY?

Also how would it be determined that you exceeded 55mph?

JIM :)

[Coloradobus]

JIM

Jhe directions for the RANGER 4X4 manual stickshift is as follows. The rotary knob you twist for 2 HI, 4 HI, 4Lo, needs to be placed in the 2 HI position and the stickshift left in neutral. This is different than other four-by-fours where the transfer case is in 'Neutral" and and in automatics trannies, you place in park, and in some stickshifts you place in "first." This setup to me is similar to a 2 wheel drive stickshift vehicle.

[dmatz]

I have a 2007 ranger automatic 4 x 4 needed to add a ford part to neutralize tranny says 55 mph have towed it several times over 1200 miles at 70 mph no issues. I now tow AWD ford flex just put in neutral turn key off and go same conditions no issues. I think and my dealer neighbor says 55 is liability only no mechanical reason. FWIW good luck

[Reagan Sirmons]

I am interested in the different RPM ranges and the different speeds being posted. On my '98 body model used for the '99 and "00 years of production, my Series 60 runs 1590 RPM at 65 MPH...all day long at 190 to 195 degrees engine temp with the a/c clutch on and the dash air functioning. My read out says 7.8 MPG... I drive with the cruise on as much as possible but when I get in any terrain that causes the turbo to increase into the 20# range, I drive it by hand. At 1800 RPM, I am over 70 MPH.
How does this add up with others? I have burned two quarts of motor oil over about 4500 miles. I admit I drive the coach very softly but it works for me.
In addition, if you change the gear ratios, will this not change the intended transmission / engine / gear selection designed by Allison?
Pres

[BrianE]

Pres, I think you are inadvertently "guilty" of thread creep here and result may be that you will get fewer responses than if you had added to or started a new thread concerning gear ratio or fuel mileage. The search function will get you started in the right direction.

That said, your numbers coincide with mine. I also have a 98 chassis conversion (Royale). I have heard from other sources that a very standard gear ratio is 4.56/1 which is what I am running. I tow a Tahoe and cruise at 62mph.

[Coloradobus]

Prez, I re posted this info on our here.
http://forum.prevostownersgroup.com/showthread.php?6014-RPM-SPEED-BOOST-of-our-8V-1992-500-HP

[hhoppe]

Yeah I know lots of reasons why, I just don't know any whatfor's