Beta Testers Needed ....

[Ray Davis]

If you were out at POG in Austin you may have heard that I'm working on an iPad/iPhone based product which works somewhat like a Pro Driver, or Silveleaf Glass dashboard.

This product comes out of my own desire to more easily be able to get at DDEC error codes. This type of functionality will be provided, along with the ability to monitor engine parameters wireless on-the-fly.

It is still very early in the design, but I do actually have a program that last Saturday I plugged into two buses at Steve Bennett's shop, and was able to wirelessly view the data streaming from the DDEC on my iPad. (My bus is in Indio, 2 hours away, so Steve was a lot closer!).


So, I am going to need some beta testers to help me work this application out. I don't want people who will simply try and say "it didn't work", and give up. I'm looking for constructive feedback in what should be in the application, how it should look, how to make it better.

Here's the rub. Although beta testing is free, you will need to purchase the hardware interface that provides the wireless connectivity to the DDEC. Because most of our busses are pre-2006, the hardware needs to speak an older protocol. This limited the few hardware vendors that could provide such an interface.

I'm working with a company called Cubic Labs, and they will provide you with the interface at my discount. Even with this discount, this runs about $675. With large quantity purchases this price can come down, but in the start of this, it's pricey, I agree.

But, when you consider that a similar setup, provided by DD, purchased through Nexiq would run about $2500, I think ultimately this is going to be an attractive product.

Anyway, at this point, I'm looking for names of people who are willing to take the risk a bit with me, purchase the hardware, and provide testing. We don't need to purchase anything quite yet, as I've got a lot of re-writing of the application to do first. But, at least first pass significant testing shows basics are working.

If you're interested in participating, let me know. I will conduct conversations about the testing via regular email. I'm not making any money on this at the moment, but ultimately, I'd like to see this product.

Thanks,
Ray

[Mark3101]

I notice you need to work on older than2006 enginges. Are you supporting newer ones too? Any idea if the interface will work with the new Volvo engines too? I would think so, but maybe not....?

[TerryM]

Love the idea. Will my SilverLeaf interface hardware work or is it a completely different interface?

[charlesebrownjr]

Hey Ray
I would like to participate with you on this idea. I already us a SilverLeaf glass dash since my CC Digital dash gave it up a couple of years ago. I am very computer literate and already have Macs, PC's and iPad and iPhone. I would do what ever you need to help make this work. Don't mind purchaseing the hardware. Let me know.
1999 CC 40'
Series 60 12.7 L engine
DDEC III

[Ray Davis]

I'll try to answer all the questions from above:

Mark, I don't know about the Volvo engines. I'm working specifically (at the moment) with DD engines. Those prior to 2006 (DDEC 4 and earlier), spoke a protocol called J1587, on a J1708 data bus. Starting with DDEC 5, the engine DDEC now streams a J1939 protocol along with a J1708/J1587 protocol as well. It is my final intention to work with both. As for Volvo, since it's a Volvo engine, I don't know what kind of diagnostic computer is on-board, and whether or not it speaks J1939. If it does, then there is a good chance this would work.

Terry, I can't work with Silverleaf hardware, I just mentioned it as an existing product that will provides similar functionality.


Russ sent me a private note, that I think is worth mentioning here. He indicated to me that he's got the VMSpc product from Silverleaf, and uses a $10 Ipad app to do this. I've asked for clarification, but I believe this works by a PC plugging into a Silverleaf interface via USB, and then using AirDisplay to stream the PC screen to the iPad for display. Certainly a very workable solution, and a lot cheaper than anything I can do.

Let me describe how the system I'm working with does it's job. I've worked so far with three vendors, but only one has gotten me a working solution at the moment.
This device plugs directly into the diagnostic port on the bus. You connect your iPad/iPhone to the device by selecting it in the wifi settings panel.

My app sends some appropriate information to the device, which initializes it, and data streams from the device. My app, then attempts to decode the information, and the goal is to display it in a really nice way. So, there's no other hardware involved.

There seem to be some much cheaper devices out there that plug into car ODB-2 ports (on board diagnostic ports). Some say they support the newer J1939 protocols, others say they don't, even though they are OEM'ing the same hardware. Personally I'm a little concerned plugging something like that in my bus diagnostic port.

To support buses of the vintage of many of our buses, the device has to support the J1708 physical interface (it's different electrically), and also it has to be able to decode the J1587 protocol. In looking for a device that did both J1587 and J1939, it get's kind of expensive. Wired devices are cheaper, but my goal was to work with an iPad or iPhone, which the only easy way to connect was via wifi.

I did speak with a vendor who quoted me only $125 for an interface that did both, but that required a purchase of 1000 units. I've tried to get a test unit from this company, (they said they would be happy to send one), but I can't get them to return phone calls or email at the moment. Single unit quantities of their device, are in the $600 to $700 market as well.

Anyway, that's the good, bad and ugly of it, at this point. I'm still moving forward, for those who may be interested.

Ray

[truk4u]

Ray,

I think your onto something that will be marketable and desirable to Prevost owners and wish you the best. Sounds like a lot of thought has gone into your project and I hope you succeed.

[Coloradobus]

We are interested Ray, for the 8V'ers. Chris has been looking for an excuse to buy an I-pad. We have a Nook right now, tho. Guess I get the Nook if he gets an I-pad.

[Ray Davis]

Thanks for the note Jim. As we've discussed, I believe that this should work fine with the 8V's. I've looked at the Prevost wiring diagrams, and it indicates the 8V ddec has the J1708/J1587 data, but on a different connector. I'd like to get ahold of a cable or adapter first, and then try to run on an 8V to see if it's going to work for you first.

I would guess the major difference would be that the earlier DDEC's will send a smaller subset of the messages, but until I capture and analyze some 8V data, I won't know for sure.

ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

A non-computer / i-pad guy jumping in here, just to mention something.

I do not know what Prevost model year the message center on multiplex coaches displayed the data you are doing via i-pad, but I do know on the Volvo equipped coaches just about any data is available via the message center. You may not want to go beyond a certain model year or DDEC iteration unless you are displaying the information in a different fashion or can convert the information into a more user friendly format.

Multiplex coaches do not limit data displays to the engine or transmission but can display information about the entire coach and its various systems.

[rfoster]

I had the opportunity to visit with Ray at the Austin Rally in my CC and got excited about seeing all the info streaming by on the IPad. I have the glass dash as well but the info that is available via the DDec is more than you can shake a stick at, and even though I may not know what is proper- I know I will enjoy playing and learning about it.

I would encourage anyone else that is a gear head or those that just want to learn all you can about your bus to let Ray know.

I am glad we have the likes of Ray in our POG group. .He could have been a car salesman wihen he grew up.

[Ray Davis]

He could have been a car salesman wihen he grew up.

Wow, if programming doesn't work out, I've got a future in cars! Hey, did you happen to get my regular email I sent you last week about testing? I didn't get a response, or a bounce, so I wanted to be sure you received it.

Ray

[johnbrowder]

Ray,
I am still on board for testing. Next bus trip will me in Jan-Fed of 2012, so it would be bet to have something in place by then.

[Ray Davis]

Great John. I hope to have something to you much before that. I've been refactoring the app to make it more correctly coded, and going through analyzers to make sure it's not leaking memory etc. So far, so good.

Ray

[Ray Davis]

John Browder was gracious enough to allow me to share this picture of his iPad installation. John is one of my first beta testers, and will be heading out today on an extended trip. The picture shows his iPad with revision 1 of the app running, live.

Best of luck on your trip, John.

Ray

[gmcbuffalo]

Ray what is "memory leak"? I think I have this condition but I can't find any wet spots.

[gmcbuffalo]

Ray did you figure out if this was compatible with a 8V92?

[Ray Davis]

HI Greg,

Indeed I did, and I apologize for not getting back to you previously. I did test on Steve Bennett's bus, and with an extra adapter to fit the 12 pin ALDL connector, the unit will talk on an 8v92. Jim Lane will start testing on his coach fairly soon.

I'll mention a couple of things, however, with respect to 8v92.

1. In my quick test at Steve's the unit works, however the DDEC2 didn't send as many parameters as the newer DDEC's. I didn't actually drive Steve's bus, but we did start it, and saw the typical parameters go by, like engine RPM, various temperatures etc. Ultimately I want to be able to allow the user to customize which gauges they display, but that's not quite in there today.

2. In the couple of 8v coaches I've looked at, the diagnostic connector is outside in the electrical bay, rather than near the drivers left knee (or that general area). I don't know if this will present a mounting problem or not. The device talks to the iPad via wifi, and in my bus, it simply is velcroed to the wall next to my left side. In the 8v92 buses, either the device needs to be mounted in the electrical bay, or the cable run from inside to outside. I think this all has to be determined on a user by user basis. I think the unit is strong enough that the iPad can pick it up from within the electrical bay (to the cabin), but it certainly needs testing.

Ray

[charlesebrownjr]

Hey Ray, Looks great. I am still available to test for you as I posted back in October. Let me know. Thanks

[Ray Davis]

Thanks Charles, I'll send you a note.

[wyle.e.kyote]

I'd be happy to help test too.. I've been looking for something similar online and while I found a few things, this would be ideal.

[gmcbuffalo]

Jim Lane any feed back on this unit, is it working for you?

[Ray Davis]

I've currently got 8 testers out there so far. Unfortunately Jim and Chris have been sorta land-locked as I understand it, and haven't gotten a lot of time on it, other than in their driveway. We did find that the 8V92 works, however it sends less info than newer DDEC's, so some of the gauges do not get data. I think they "moved" those gauges onto the second page, where they aren't always visible. One thing I will be adding is the ability to remove gauges completely that aren't used.

Interestingly I got a call from Prevost Dallas a few weeks ago. A Country Coach owner was in for service, and his glass dash had completely gone out. He had seen Buddy Browns unit, and I guess remembered my name. Prevost looked me up, and called in his behalf. Bottom line, two days later, he was up and running with gauges!

I can certainly use a couple more testers. I'm about to get the error decode logic into the app. If anyone would like to consider testing, send me an email (you can find that via my profile, I believe), or send a PM message.

Ray