Motorcycle lifts

[AmeriStar]

I've been considering installing a motorcylcle lift on our coach. I know there has been alot of discussion about the negative side to this, i.e. 1000 lb maximum hitch weight, not sufficient frame to support additional weight, front axel lift and on and on.

Excalibur has devised a fairly simple additional hitch support, that they claim has preformed flawlessly on prevosts for several years. I have seen several, (only on entertainer coaches for their equipment trailers) and have witnessed no adverse effects with 200,000 miles plus.

My question is, does anyone have a Excalibur installed hitch / motorcycle lift and how is it doing for you?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Kevin, I think a better question is if the Excaliber maintains the Prevost specified limit on the receiver which I believe is a limit of 1000 poounds 8" from the face of the receiver.

I think any device which can pick up some of the load and apply it where it will not stress the Prevost structure and keep the receiver loads within limits should be acceptable. If you look at the engine cradle and how that structure is cantilevered off the rear axle structure you will see why Prevost has established weight limits.

Most owners whose coach has been damaged by exceeding the limits is completely unaware of the damage, and when those that do see the damage they likely associated the damage from the aging of the coach. It typically shows as a crack across the end cap just beneath the lower band or it shows as failed rivet holes going up the sides and across the top. I suspect those crackes are from the flexing of the rear structure and pulling down on the cap. What I don't know and have not ever seen discussed or reported is if the rear is flexing enough to fatugue crack the fiberglass cap is the structure itself beginning to fatigue crack also. If it is those cracks will be impossible to see in an inspection because I suspect they would occur in an area beneath the coach that is getting grease coated from lubing the spline and rear U joint.

[Don]

It’s your call but from my limited experience as a new member of POG and a new Prevost owner(less than a year for both) I personally would not go there. I purchased a Prevost with a matching stacker trailer that came from a well-respected converter, it had all the options that I wanted including matching color(I will not mention the converter) at any rate the trailer was rated at 20,000 pounds with a Tung weight of 2,000 pounds. As you probably know the stock Prevost trailer hitch is rated at 10,000 lbs. with a 1,000 lbs tung weight. It was not a little over it was double the coach rated capacity.
Upon arriving at Prevost Jacksonville and their inspection it was very obvious that bad things were about to happen at any time. It had been welded by someone to beef it up or to fix past problems.
Also upon our arrival in Jacksonville the engine could have fallen out and the trailer could have come loose from the coach at any time due to multiple hair line cracks, 6 to be exact. Prevost has a 20,000 lbs. pull weight with a 2,000 lbs. tong weight upgrade engine cradle which I had installed by them. Someone else had a coach at Jacksonville that I did not have a chance to talk to but it had a trailer hitch with 2 outboard attachment points to mount a motorcycle ramp in 3 places and I was advised by Jacksonville not to do that either.
Just to back up a little bit I joined POG before I made my Prevost purchase and found a world of information. I originally wanted to purchase an H 3 and put a Motorcycle in the belly and carry one on the rear (I have seen both) but most of the information I received from POG said not to do that. Looking back I am glad I did not, Jacksonville also said that it was a bad idea. My mine set is if Prevost will not approve it I will not do it.
In case you are wondering my wife and I are avid motorcyclist we attend Daytona and Sturgis every year among other motorcycle events either by Motorcycle or motorhome pulling our bikes in a trailer. Pulling a trailer with 2 bikes in an enclosed trailer has never been a problem, and I must say they stay clean. I have observed motorcycles mounted in the back of motorhomes and being pulled on open trailers and they can get very dirty in the smallest of storms.
With our previous motorhome we had a trailer that we could haul 2 motorcycles in, similar to http://www.ironhorsetrailers.com/ that worked flawless for years. It was light enough that I could push it around with both motorcycles in it, so we never had to worry about getting into a situation that we could have not unhooked and gotten out of the whatever problem. I am presently playing with the idea of purchasing a trailer from the above for when we do not want to take the car along or multiple Motorcycles.
I have found Jon to be very knowledgeable and agree with him on his input above.
Bottom line I suggest a trailer to fit your needs with the proper engine cradle, receiver hitch, and ball mount.

[jack14r]

I don't know the year that Prevost changed the cradle to increase the trailer and tongue weight but I think that it was about 2003,the increased weights are 20,000 LBS.trailer weight and 1,500 tongue weight.I have towed a stacker trailer and I think that it is very difficult to get the tongue weight in spec. without the trailer having spread axles,you must have a tongue weight scale to also verify the tongue weight.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Don,

Thanks for posting that. One of the problems that prevents widespread knowledge of structural cracking that I was concerned about is that an owner is unlikely to talk openly of such damage. To do so brands a coach as having a serious defect and affects its price in a future sale. POG members are very good at tracking coaches and their history.

You confirmed what I think every owner has to understand and that is limits are established for a reason. On my coach the area of the structure that I suspect will be affected by fatigue cracking is also the area of the coach that grease from the spline and U joints is flung all over and that crud will hide structural cracks. That makes the issue even more serious because I suspect only luck and a sharp technician will be able to catch a problem before the lift, engine and transmission are all sitting on the highway.

[treedoc]

Don Could you explain where the engine cradle is mounted. Inside or outside the frame? Is it a double framing so to speak? Is prevost the only one who sells this set up? cost? Thanks Rick

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Rick,

If you will look in the engine area of a coach you will see the engine support cradle is cantilevered off the sub frame structure for the drive and tag axles. Attached to the end and bottom of that extension which supports the engine is the hitch receiver.

Basically if you imagine a pair of arms extending outward toward the rear of the coach which are attached to the structure around the rear axles you will get a picture of why excess weight beyond the bumper has the effect of a huge lever bending the arms downward. As long as the coach never hits any bumps or doesn't bounce up and down as it goes over dips in the road you are not levering the structure downward. But that is not the real world. The Prevost hitch increased weight option bringing it to 2000# tongue weight deals with that lever arm. But keep in mind that additional capacity is also weight limited and it is up to you to insure you do not exceed the limit.

When Don mentions stress cracks I believe he is talking about those beneath the coach on the frame. But since the outer shell in the rear is attached to the structure, as the structure flexes due to loading, so does the rear cap and skin on the coach. Those items are equally affected, although stress cracks on the rear cap are unlikely to cause your engine to fall out. Personally, I would not consider anything to strengthen the structure for towing that Prevost did not design. Nobody knows more about the coach and its structure, stress points, and areas of concern than Prevost.

[gmcbuffalo]

What about those trailers that attach to the bumper like a shelf and have pivoting wheels under them?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I've often wondered about them and had some questions. First, what happens if the coach has to enter or depart from a slope to a level spot and the approach angle is steep. I have had to stop and raise the coach to keep from dragging and on a couple of occasions, even then I dragged. What happens when the angle between the bus and trailer is acute? Surely those small front wheels will not support the rear weight of the bus.

What about backing up. For me a trailer would be an unnecessary item to deal with, but to mitigate the inconvenience of having a trailer at least with a conventional trailer it is easy to back up, unlike when towing four wheels down. Does the trailer act that way also?

[Don]

I agree with Jon he is right on target in my opinion.
Also Thanks to Jon and all that attended The Austin rally for your help and support.
It makes me feel so proud to belong to such a great group of people. (It’s worth 10,000 penny’s)
I arrived home safely today with the help of a backup driver, and will see my Doctor ASAP.
I have had no problem since Tuesday Oct 4 at the rally I will keep you posted on my diagnoses.

[gmcbuffalo]

Here a video of what I mean, something like this

http://www.youtube.com/user/SmartTrailersInc

http://www.smarttrailers.com/

[gmcbuffalo]

Here another idea but I don't know about length requirements.

http://www.cruiserlift.com/towdolly.html

[Jon Wehrenberg]

OK. I thought you were talking about the stacker trailers that have the normal rear axles, but have an axle at the front to carry weight that would ordinarily be on the hitch.

The swivel caster concept might be fine on a small trailer that is not rated for heavy loads, but I cannot imagine how heavy the swivel and axle assembly would have to be to handle a stacker with a car and a couple of motorcycles. Braking would be a challenge and taking a tight turn with 24 feet of stacker on the rear of a coach would wipe out a lot of cars or light poles.

[jack14r]

My Prevost owners manual states that the maximum tongue weight is 1,500 LBS and the total gross weight for the trailer is 20,000 LBS.

[rfoster]

Don:

That is good news and glad to hear you are home safe and sound. We look forward to seeing you at the next POG Rallly if not before.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Don, glad to get an update. Di and I were wondering if everything is going OK. Glad to hear from you.

10,000 pennies?

[truk4u]

Don,

Keep us posted and glad your home safe & sound.

[Sawbonz]

Don,

Glad to hear you are feeling well. Break a leg! ;)