Entertainer vs Motorhome

[gershwin]

What are the differences generally w/ an entertainer vs a Prevost motorhome conversion. Not really talking about the obvoius possible issue of a previously rented coach - I can flush that out.

I'm more interested in what prevost motorhomes have generally that the entertainers do not. Are there deal breakers w/ an entertainer? Is it just not built to the same standards - ie. insulation, operational issues and such.

Thank you,

[travelite]

From my experience, things like: size of battery bank, size of inverter, size of tanks, cabinet and drawer space, lack of finished basement space, wall separation between driver and house, small shower sometimes combined with commode, tiny bathroom, sometimes two toilets, small kitchens with no counter space and no food storage area, small refrigerators, typically no slide although that's changing. If a slide is present it's a bunch shorter in the entertainer shell than in the motorhome shell. You can be sure that most of the other electronic features we're used to are missing: Crestron, Power Management, Load centers with fancy resettable fuses and circuit breakers, etc. Entertainers don't really live in entertainer coaches. I've been told that doing number 2 in the toilet is generally forbidden. Generators are relied upon 100%. Usually just one small inverter, and a battery bank of just a few hundred Ampere-hours. Lots of sleeping space, but little in the way of cabinets or drawers for clothing and personal stuff. Entertainers and their helpers live out of suitcases stored in the basement. The basements look like OTR touring bus basements, nothing finished, no built-in storage, no entertainment centers, or refrigerators, etc. IMPO, there's a lot of work needed to turn an entertainer into a motorhome. To me, it just isn't feasible.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

David pretty much nailed it. The difference is in how an entertainer coach is used. It is not uncommon for the driver's seat to be isolated from the front stateroom. He needs some provision for keeping the lights in the rear of the coach from interfereing with his visibility via reflections in the windshield when he is driving at night.

The interiors are generally durable but lack design features we have in a MH. It is not uncommon for the interior to be modular. For example it may take little effort to convert a pair of bunks into a full height closet and vice versa.

It may have OTR, but it is likely to have at least 5 roof airs. It is likely to have 2 gensets. While we can dry camp and want the battery power and inverters to do that, it is not uncommon for the generator on an entertainier coach to be turned on at the start of the tour and kep running anytime the group is in the bus or about to be in the bus. The second genset is backup. Ditto with the 5th roof air.

Expect very little water and waste holding. The group uses the bus to travel, they do not live in it. Some leasors of entertainer coaches will not permit anyone to do #2 in a bus toilet. The kitchen if you want to call it that is for snacks, not for cooking. The rear stateroom is not likely to be a bedroom, but a second sitting area. The entertainer coaches see a lot of miles so in two years it may have the same number of miles typically found in a 10 to 15 year old MH.

The shell is not the same as a MH. It has a longer wheelbase, although future MH shells are going to have the same wheelbase as entertainer shells so that is not likely to be a show stopper. But bottom line, as David says is an entertainer coach has a significant number of changes that have to be made to it to have one begin to match a MH. But the reverse is also true. Our coaches and interiors will not meet the requirements of the typical group that leases an entertainer coach, nor will it have the durability or redundancy those coaches require

[TG Transport]

These two fellas nailed it. I've owned two MH Prevosts and traveled in quite a few entertainer coaches. That being said, entertainer coaches generally have 12 bunks, a front and rear salon, and a bathroom usually without a shower. A star coach is set up more like our coaches typically with 3-6 bunks, bathroom with shower, and a rear bedroom. Google Diamond Coaches in Nashville to see the differences.

[gershwin]

Expect very little water and waste holding.

The shell is not the same as a MH. It has a longer wheelbase, although future MH shells are going to have the same wheelbase as entertainer shells so that is not likely to be a show stopper. But bottom line, as David says is an entertainer coach has a significant number of changes that have to be made to it to have one begin to match a MH. But the reverse is also true. Our coaches and interiors will not meet the requirements of the typical group that leases an entertainer coach, nor will it have the durability or redundancy those coaches require


Well you hit on an interest item there I hadn't thought of - holding capacity. That is a problem.

Also what do you mean future MH's will have a longer wheel base and why are the entertainer coaches based on a longer w-b?

[gershwin]

From my experience, things like: size of battery bank, size of inverter, size of tanks, cabinet and drawer space, lack of finished basement space, wall separation between driver and house, small shower sometimes combined with commode, tiny bathroom, sometimes two toilets, small kitchens with no counter space and no food storage area, small refrigerators, typically no slide although that's changing. If a slide is present it's a bunch shorter in the entertainer shell than in the motorhome shell. You can be sure that most of the other electronic features we're used to are missing: Crestron, Power Management, Load centers with fancy resettable fuses and circuit breakers, etc. Entertainers don't really live in entertainer coaches. I've been told that doing number 2 in the toilet is generally forbidden. Generators are relied upon 100%. Usually just one small inverter, and a battery bank of just a few hundred Ampere-hours. Lots of sleeping space, but little in the way of cabinets or drawers for clothing and personal stuff. Entertainers and their helpers live out of suitcases stored in the basement. The basements look like OTR touring bus basements, nothing finished, no built-in storage, no entertainment centers, or refrigerators, etc. IMPO, there's a lot of work needed to turn an entertainer into a motorhome. To me, it just isn't feasible.

Thank you David - very helpful and comprehensive.

[TG Transport]

My understanding from Marathon is that the MH chassis is being discontinued and that future MH conversions will be constructed on the entertainer platform which has the longer wheelbase.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

When Prevost is producing the new shells they are going to have some changes. On the XLII style the stainless will now stop at the top of the bay doors. The bays have been changed and I think the fuel tank relocated and all shells including the MH are going to have the longer wheelbase of the entertainer shell.

Right now an XLII wheelbase for a MH is shorter than the entertainer shell although the lengths are the same. Next time you see a Prevost on the highway look at the rear overhang. On a MH shell the length behind the rear wheels is longer than the entertainer. On the MH shell there is a small compartment behind the tag axle. On entertainer shells the rear wheels are moved back and only the perforated radiator and eingine doors are behind the tag axle.

[gershwin]

When Prevost is producing the new shells they are going to have some changes. On the XLII style the stainless will now stop at the top of the bay doors. The bays have been changed and I think the fuel tank relocated and all shells including the MH are going to have the longer wheelbase of the entertainer shell.

Right now an XLII wheelbase for a MH is shorter than the entertainer shell although the lengths are the same. Next time you see a Prevost on the highway look at the rear overhang. On a MH shell the length behind the rear wheels is longer than the entertainer. On the MH shell there is a small compartment behind the tag axle. On entertainer shells the rear wheels are moved back and only the perforated radiator and eingine doors are behind the tag axle.

Yes, but why are they going to model based on the E? Is it because of the load behind the tag or some other reason? Will increase turning radius - that's not good - unless the front wheel radius will change. Where can one find information on the next generation Prevost chasis for the MH or are you saying there really isn't a next generation they are just discontinuing the MH and rolling only E's off the line.

[jack14r]

Prevost web site has the info,they are just not building enough XLII to justify a MH only version.I have heard that the new one with the Volvo D 13 will also have a 19,000 LB front axle.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

There are two advantages to the MH XLII shell. The longer rear overhang provides a means of getting weight off the front axle by cantilevering the weight of the engine, transmission and whatever other weight the converter can place back there to offset weight that would go to the front axle. The second benefit is the turn radius is better than on the entertainer shell.

With the use of the entertainer shell converters are going to have to work very hard to cut down on weight so the steer axle is not overloaded. I think that is why some converters are going to use the lithium ion batteries. Prevost saves a few bucks by eliminating one model from their lineup but it just transfers the cost to the MH buyer who ultimately pays for the methods used to save weight.

But the turn radius difference is a non issue. As an owner gets accustomed to his turn radius and the pivot point it is doubtful he will wish he had the shorter wheelbase. In all my years of ownership there may have been one or two instances where I was able to make a turn with 0" to spare. Turns are usually relatively easy because there is ample room or they are so lacking it is obvious there is no way to make it. A foot or two difference in turn radius is not likely to make the difference. But what will change is drivers will have to be much more aware of high centering the coach, especially if the conversion has baffles or piping that hangs below the level of the bay doors. That disadvantage will be offset to an extent by a ride that should be slightly improved as a result of the longer wheelbase.

[michaeldterry]

These two fellas nailed it. I've owned two MH Prevosts and traveled in quite a few entertainer coaches. That being said, entertainer coaches generally have 12 bunks, a front and rear salon, and a bathroom usually without a shower. A star coach is set up more like our coaches typically with 3-6 bunks, bathroom with shower, and a rear bedroom. Google Diamond Coaches in Nashville to see the differences.

Towson! Where the hell you been? I need to know when either of your bands is playing in my area again! Oh yeah - these guys did nail the differences between a motorhome conversion and an entertainer conversion. I've owned both and can testify that an entertainer conversion is built for utility and durability foremost, where our motorhome conversions are built more with luxury in mind. A leased entertainer coach will get a lot of hard use by people with no vested interest in taking care of it, whereas our motorhomes are usually pampered and treated with kid gloves by the owners who absolutely love them.

Towson - get in touch, man! :p

[gershwin]

There are two advantages to the MH XLII shell. The longer rear overhang provides a means of getting weight off the front axle by cantilevering the weight of the engine, transmission and whatever other weight the converter can place back there to offset weight that would go to the front axle. The second benefit is the turn radius is better than on the entertainer shell.

With the use of the entertainer shell converters are going to have to work very hard to cut down on weight so the steer axle is not overloaded. I think that is why some converters are going to use the lithium ion batteries. Prevost saves a few bucks by eliminating one model from their lineup but it just transfers the cost to the MH buyer who ultimately pays for the methods used to save weight.

But the turn radius difference is a non issue. As an owner gets accustomed to his turn radius and the pivot point it is doubtful he will wish he had the shorter wheelbase. In all my years of ownership there may have been one or two instances where I was able to make a turn with 0" to spare. Turns are usually relatively easy because there is ample room or they are so lacking it is obvious there is no way to make it. A foot or two difference in turn radius is not likely to make the difference. But what will change is drivers will have to be much more aware of high centering the coach, especially if the conversion has baffles or piping that hangs below the level of the bay doors. That disadvantage will be offset to an extent by a ride that should be slightly improved as a result of the longer wheelbase.

Doesn't item #1 apply to both MH and E?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

A longer wheelbase (less rear overhang) increases the turn radius and by having a greater length between the axles instead of behind the rear axles the steer axle has to carry a greater load even if the house and bays are identical.

[gershwin]

A longer wheelbase (less rear overhang) increases the turn radius and by having a greater length between the axles instead of behind the rear axles the steer axle has to carry a greater load even if the house and bays are identical.

Ok so it becomes a function of space vs. load. In other words the longer wheel base I assume is more desireable because of more storage/bays between axles vs. the desire to lighten the front axle load. Is this a correct assumption?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Yes. That longer wheelbase and the increased storage is one of the reasons the entertainer coach is like that. But keep in mind that the short space behind the wheels on the motorhome is not wasted. In my coach the space behind the tag axle houses the house batteries on one side and the Webasto and associated valving on the other.

[BenC]

I did not see anyone mention the horsepower difference of the two models, due to lack of radiator/cooling in the 40 ft and entertainer shells. The last published specs said 455HP/12.7L version of the Series 60, versus the 515HP/14L version of Series 60 the the MH shells were equipped with. I have not heard of what the engine HP difference will be yet for the Volvo Engines versus models, but there has to be a difference for the same fundamental reason as before with the Detroit engine use.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ben, I think that is dependent upon whether the shell is an XL or XLII. The XLII on a MH has a much greater area for cooling air flow essentially using the space behind the tag all the way to the rear. On the entertainer the XLII loses that 18" due to the longer wheelbase. The XL only has the shorter open area for cooling because on those shells the 18" area behind the tag is usually used for something else, such as the Webasto on my Liberty.

What all POG members should realize is Detroit (and probably Volvo) will certify the engine installation and the amount of horsepower will be dependent upon the ability of the coach to cool as required. At one time owners were getting their HP "turned up" but with no other modification to the coach or the cooling system. When the HP was needed such as climbing a long hill, if the coach could not get rid of the heat produced the computer just started removing HP from the engine which negated the increase in HP.

When a coach is sold by Prevost with a given HP, the cooling system for the engine can remove the heat produced so the HP is always available.