VIRGINIAN RV PARK JACKSON WYOMING

[Coloradobus]

We found out today that we have a fly in the ointment for camping in or near Jackson, Wyoming.
THE VIRGIINIAN RV PARK and MOTEL will no longer allow ANY coach over 40ft into their facility. Darlene, the owner, told me she will not make any acceptions even for longtime visitors like us, making enforcement easier without giving out exceptions to some guests. Now, we don't have a 45 any longer, but the 2 other coaches we will be travelling with are.
There really aren't any good alternatives. The Hoback JCT KOA has a length restriction of under 40ft. The Grand Teton Resort at Moran Jct is not desirdable/
Next is the former KOA Teton Village, now Jackson Valley RV Park is just ok. Teton Valley RV Park in Victor Idaho requires you drive over Teton Pass anytime you want to go to Jackson or the Grand Teton Naitonal Park. That's a 45 minute drive just to out for dinner. So, this news sucks since the Virginian makes downtown Jackson just a short walk.
Management states they have had some accidents in their tight park, and don't want to hassle with owner/operators of RV who shouldn't be behind the wheel, yet blame the Virginian for their mishap.
Bummer

[Jerry Winchester]

This doesn't surprise me. It's a crappy little park with it's only redeeming quality being it's location. They get pissy when it's wet in the park, which is quite often, and there is no way to get a 45'er on the pad without getting in the grass on either side. It has little to do with skill and more to do with the layout of the park. But the moisture turns the winter grass into a bog just waiting for you to pull into it.

So instead of fixing some of the spots to accommodate the bigger coaches, they just take the chicken shit way out. I have never been in there without an "issue" of some kind with the manager or straw boss / toothless moron they have running it. I hope it blows up I'm their face, but I guess they can pack enough of those Class C rental RV's in there to make the difference.

[garyde]

Sounds like an opportunity for someone who is enterprising. What are the nightly rates?

[Coloradobus]

the biggest problem in Jackson is available space. When a landowner wants to do improvements, say construct an RV park, the city shuts the idea down, by not issueing permits.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Sometimes we just have to go someplace else. Assuming Jackson shuts down efforts to build or improve then the obvious response is to take your business elsewhere. But don't go silently. Write a letter to the CG owner, the city or a letter to the editor.

It's not as though there are not options.

But as to campgrounds we all have to recognize that some CG owners will go out of their way to make their campground big rig friendly. They have long pull throughs, 50 amp power, and wide approaches to the sites so we don't have to hit the grass. But there are and always will be CG owners that for whatever reason can't or won't cater to larger RVs. It may be because their city makes reconstruction difficult or impossible, or it may be because they don't want big RVs. Whatever reason there is no sense getting pissed, just take your business elsewhere.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Sounds like an opportunity for someone who is enterprising. What are the nightly rates?

Here you go Gary or anyone actually! Convert 4 home sites to Big Rig and hire a work camper to manage the place.

http://www.mobilehomeparkstore.com/mobile-home-parks-for-sale-in-wyoming/jackson



JIM :)

[garyde]

In the last 3 years the RV park buisness and real estate has sunk to new lows. Lots of Bankruptcy and foreclosures. its gong to be a while until it rebounds. Banks don't like them.
I don't know about Wyoming but in California if you have a license as a Mobile Home Park you can't have RV's, that is a different operating license with different
laws.
The other problem with Mobile Home parks is Caps on rent, or rent control. Its a loser, you can't raise Grandpa's rent. So all of these assumptions of 7 or 8% return are bunk.

[Jerry Winchester]

Gary,

I surmise like everything real estate related, location is the key followed by a well capitalized business plan. I have been to really nice parks that were not in the center or near anything special and watched them struggle. Then you see one go in and three or four expansions later they are doing well regardless of the economy.

The only reason this POS park exists is it's location. I've lined up three metered parking in a row and parked my bus in downtown San Antonio solely because of location. I was smack in the middle of the action and the $8 in quarters it cost me per day was insignificant. The pain was getting back every two hours from 8am till 5pm to plug the meter. But so many of these parks are run by retired 5th wheel owners who are rarely customer service zealots.

Then some have great locations and poor plans. We visited a new one just across the road from the beach in Gulf Shores that looked real promising, but they had these super expensive coach houses, no trees or landscaping and a big brackish water pond beside it. Went back by there on spring break and it never made it. The model coach houses were there, but something must have gone wrong but I figure it was capital or finance related since they didn't appear to sell well while a similar set up just a few miles away with a great location was thriving. Go figure.

But you have to think that the relatively short RV season around Jackson surely drives the high prices and the lack of anyone spending the money to build a good place when folks will almost pay to park in the street.

[garyde]

I know your right about location and success. Just look at the parks around Sturgis who have a one month window to make their annual nut. Some are doing quite well.
I think most of the smaller parks are fading away for all those reasons you listed. location, not keeping up with the times, competition, poor or non existant management.
Also, County fair grounds have begun renting out spaces at rates private paks can not match, and there are Walmarts for free overnight stays.
Now if you can find a place along the ocean or lake in a busy freeway corridor, with nearby shopping, and places to tour, then you might have something.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

It would not be wrong to assume as a starting point $10,000 to $20,000 or more to develop a site in an RV park. By the time roads, infrastructure, office, pool, etc. are built the RV park has a lot of money in the ground.

I am assuming throughout time the development costs were proportional to building costs, but the thing that has changed is the amount of regulation an owner has to endure. Admittedly CA is extreme and while not the intent their laws and regulations are probably driving up costs and chasing away business. We won't even drive through CA if we can help it because of their laws and the cost.

So a RV park owner today seems to compromise. He builds his RV park where the laws and regulations are not so onerous, but tries to get at least close to some destination that attracts RVs. The New Orleans RV park is one that comes to mind when I think of the BS an owner had to endure to develop the property. Everything from the local regulations to the unions he undoubtedly had to use. But that RV park is going to always be able to charge high prices and it is likely to always have a high utilization.

The flip side to that is Buckhorn. I think their only salvation is the park is so good it will pull business from other parks of lesser quality and its proximity to the interstate. Where that park is located he probably had little BS to deal with compared to FQRV.

I don't think RV parks are going away. Those whose ground has become more valuable for other purposes such as the one that used to be on Townsend and Fourth in San Francisco will go away, and those that replace them will be located much further away. Our problem as bus owners is our numbers and size and power requirements have been growing faster than the development of parks meant to accomodate us. We see opportunities because we see things from the driver's seat of a big bus, but in reality the vast majority of rigs that use RV parks are significantly smaller than our rigs. It beomes easy for a CG owner who chooses to not put up with the local laws and regs when expanding to just cater to the folks that will fit in his park.

As to Jerry's comment about using parking meters in San Antonio, FMCA got crosswise with San Antonio in around 1991 because at the time the city would not allow the parking of RVs on the streets or even visble in people's yards. I guess by showing San Antonio the revenue producer that RVs and tourism are it prompted the city to revisit its laws regarding RVs. Follow the money.