Help! - Check and Stop Warning Lights On!

[Lee Bornstein]

Tried to start coach yesterday and engine batteries were dead - Replaced them this morning and coach starts ok but.....

Turn on Key, Check and Stop lights come on along with other warning lights, then go off as normal then Check and Stop come back on.

Start Engine and they remain on - Any idea where to start trouble shooting on this?

Iss this a False Error?

Im ready to hit the road but am concerned.

Lee

[Lee Bornstein]

Found problem using DDEC Flash Codes - Low Coolant.
Topped off reservoir and all is OK now.

Using Flash Codes would be a good topic for POG III

Lee

[Jon Wehrenberg]

JDUB covered it, and it will not hurt to repeat it.

The single most common cause of lights is the coolant sensor.

[Lee Bornstein]

Jon:
Missed that in Seminar - Thought Jerry was just talking about DDEC Code Reader not the Engine Override Switch method of viewing codes by flashing lights.

Lee

[rfoster]

Lee: Good Job on running down the problem with your coach following the clues. We may have to come up with a new Award for POG3 - The Cluesoe Award!:cool:

[Jerry Winchester]

Lee,

The DDEC computer is responsible for the Check Engine Light and Stop Engine Light coming on, so the code reader tells you in plain English what the DDEC issue is. The code flashing light option also does this but you must have the chart if you don't have the code reader.

Also, the chart for the codes is located in a post on the forum.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Lee, and any others interested,

There are various ways to read the codes such as Lee mentioned one, another is to put a jumper across two of the terminals (A and M?).

The point is that if you do get a check engine or engine stop light, you do have a way to get a code and even though it is not as detailed as the information you might get from the reader, it will point you toward the problem.

Before those lights start flashing, it is a good idea for you to find out how you access the codes on your coach, and make sure you have the list of codes. When you are on the side of the road in rush hour traffic you are probably not going to be happy rooting around trying to find out why your engine shut down. You should be able to flash your codes so when a problem occurs you can resolve the problem, especially since most codes are for simple things like coolant level.

[MangoMike]

I'm trying to do my due dilligence. But unable to find the list of codes on POG. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Like Jon says I don't want to be on the side of the road wondering what the flashes mean.

When you do get flashes are they just the current codes or are there some historical ones in their also?

Mike

[dalej]

Mike did you try the search tab?;) this might get you close...http://www.prevostownersgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=224&page=2&highlight=ddec+codes

[MangoMike]

Dale,
Thanks I tried that earlier, but no luck.

MM

[Lee Bornstein]

Mike - I will try and scan code pages, create PDF and post on our server for download.

Give me 24 hrs.

Lee

[Ray Davis]

I think it's safe to say the DDEC codes are not Prevost specific. Here's a link to a printable list of codes from a DD service facility.

http://www.valleypowersystems.com/products/ddc/ddeccodes.htm

Ray

[Jon Wehrenberg]

JDUB has a highly detailed list of codes if I am not mistaken. That level of detail is what should be accessed from the POG site.

[Ray Davis]

This same thing exactly happened to me when I was getting ready to leave Kerrville after the Datastorm rally. I had been sitting there for 8 days. I checked my oil before starting the engine, and it looked fine.

I started the engine and 10 seconds later, it shut itself down. The check engine, and engine stop light were on. I didn't have the info with me to check engine codes so I went around looking for issues. Checked the oil (again), and this time after running a few seconds, it was clear that it was very, VERY low.

Refilled with new oil, and started engine again. Again the same thing check engine and stop engine light. Went back and looked at coolant, and it too was low (hadn't checked it previously I guess). Added coolant, and everything started and run fine from there.

I guess one thing to ask from this thread, is when is the right time to check the engine oil? As I mentioned, I checked the oil, after engine had been sitting for 8 days, and it "looked" fine on the dipstick. Obviously after starting it wasn't fine. As far as I've heard oil is checked with the engine off, so in this particular case, I didn't get a reasonable reading until I ran the engine for at least 10 seconds before checking (after a long time sitting).

I was pretty sure that I had checked the oil upon arrival to Kerrville (it's an 8V, I check it often), but I must have waited too long enough to get an accurate reading?

[Ray Davis]

One other question. I wasn't able to attend JDUB's talk on the DDEC reader. I've scan the internet a bit looking for a reader, but the best I'm finding is a $1500 unit called a Pro Link. Is THAT what JDUB has? Is there another kind (perhaps a little less expensive) reader available?

[win42]

Ray: On my return trip from POG2 I got a check engine light flashing intermitently depending on down hill or up hill. I was close to the evening shut down. I checked it after I got parked. It was almost at the full mark. I remembered when they change the oil the dip stick shows high on the letters about a full inch above the full mark. I believe my dipstick is giveing false readings and the oil level should be kept above full by that inch. Any one else have an 8V with the same problem?
I guess all the faulty dip sticks aren't in Congress after all.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Ray,

It is my opinion you checked the oil properly. If it is not reading the correct level after sitting overnight or 8 days I would be very surprised. When you ran it a short period of time and then rechecked it I would expect it to read very low. It is straight 40 weight that has not yet reached operating temperature and it is probable when you rechecked it a fairly large amount was still hanging in all of the normal places in the engine still slowly oozing back down to the oil pan. It is likely you overfilled it, but I don't think an 8V92 is sensitive to that.

One additional comment about oil levels. I don't believe the DDEC is sensitive to oil levels, so unless you were so low as to not develop oil pressure it is unlikely the oil had anything to do with the shut-down.

The coolant level however is likely to have been what the real problem was. Because of the large volume of coolant (22 to 24 gallons) when it expands from the temperature rise it will literally overflow the header tank. Then when it cools, especially if you did not run your Aqua-Hot or Webasto, it will contract to the point where the header tank may only have 1/3 or so of its capacity filled.

That creates a dilemma. If you do not monitor the coolant level frequently, it will soon be down to a level below the sensor when you start. For those who have not had a long experience with these, I recommend filling the coolant, running the coach, and after it cools use a stick or some other means of determining the true cold level in the header. That is the level you wish to maintain when cold. Filling beyond that just results in coolant dumping overboard, and coolant should be maintained at the less than full level. The sight glasses are excellent for a quick check prior to start, but I don't think older coaches are equipped with them.

The reason the coolant level monitor is going to shut you down quickly is because if you have a major leak, such as a burst hose, your engine will be turned into a boat anchor very quickly unless you catch the failure and turn it off. A tremendous amount of heat is generated and without coolant that heat exceeds all limits for the coach engine rapidly.

[Jerry Winchester]

Ray,

The DDEC code reader I have looks like this;

http://jdub.smugmug.com/photos/73062432-M.jpg

I bought it used on eBay for $700. It came with a thermal printer, two DDEC cartridges (I now have the DDEC-3 module we didn't have at Santa Fe) a set of plugs for DDEC-2 and DDEC-3, a 12v power cable for the printer and the manuals for the whole thing.

I also bought a new oil pressure transducer on eBay for $20 (I paid $79 for the new one last summer) and I bought a coolant sensor, turbo boost sensor and DDEC 2-3 Troubleshooting Guide on eBay as well. All were new.

Tom and I hooked up the reader to AP's bus hoping to find a fatal flaw in the ShagWagon, but it passed with only a gazillion low coolant warnings (he must have been low and it kept sloshing and setting the warning off then resetting.)

The Detroit Diesel Code Card is posted on here somewhere. I will track it down, but it is just a more compact version of what is posted above. And it also shows you which terminals to short across.

Unless you have this switch, then just flip it and read away.

http://jdub.smugmug.com/photos/73061694-M.jpg

[Jerry Winchester]

For all the computer wizards on the board, when you are on the main page, go select

"Engines, transmissions, axles and wheels"

Then scroll down to "Detroit Diesel DDEC-II Codes" and select it.

This is how we used to find things before Lew started asking about his crapper on every thread on the board. :o


http://jdub.smugmug.com/photos/82765832-M.jpg

http://jdub.smugmug.com/photos/82765861-M.jpg