New Thread Heading

[truk4u]

What do you say we combine General Chit Chat and Miscellaneous Items into one Thread heading and then start a new one titled, Service Facilities - The Good, the Bad, the Ugly?

The intent would be to get straight forward honest assessments of the various service facilities visited by members as they have work done.

Just a thought!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

While I like the concept of rating service facilities I think we are treading on thin ice.

On another thread I think it was Jerry that pointed out how sometimes service is a hit and miss proposition. I have to agree. Some places are really good at some stuff and they fall on their head when stepping outside their area of expertise. As a result someone may post a scathing report of a service center that is very good, but failed to satisfy the customer on one issue.

Conversely, some lousy shop may talk smooth and convince an owner they are in good hands, but actually may not be doing the job right or at all.

I think POG can create just such a rating system and place on the forum to post the results, but it has to be based on facts, not subjective criteria. The raters have to be qualified to judge the quality of the work, and the shop has to have performance standards clearly defined and measured.

To use an analogy relating to aviation, I have flown with many non-pilot passengers. I may have nailed my altitude, my course tracking and my approach procedures, yet my passengers will in all probability only rate my skills based on how smooth I touched down when we landed. If we intend to open the can of worms relating to rating service providers I think we need to looking at the big picture and not just the part visible to the rater.

[BoaterAl]

Another consideration is the shop overall has a good reputation. Unfortunately the tech put on your repair was not the best one for that job. Most of the time the tech was the reason for the bad workmanship.
Another list would be the people who are considered extremely good at that repair. Care and expertise .....pride in workmanship that in my opinion is really important.

[truk4u]

Whats the down side? If someone gets sideways with a Tech and begins a flaming session, I'm sure it will be debated at length and let the chips fall. I doubt any biased opinion would go unchallenged with this bunch. Besides, if there is a problem with a shop, we just need to step up and discuss it so the next guy doesn't get blind sided.

On the other side, it would be nice to know the positive experiences and have it all under one heading for an easier search. Maybe Rick or Ben will jump in here and give us their take.

[Jerry Winchester]

Why not. We can see how it goes then nuke it if it runs off in the ditch. The true issue is subjectivity. I read and post on the RV park rating site all the time. I rarely rate a joint a 10 them turn around and watch the trailer trash rage it like the its the best thing going because the girl was super nice and took the time to chat them up. The park could be a shit hole, but go a 10 because the folks were nice. I had a great experience with Stewart & Stevenson in Houston, but Neal and Carla had a meltdown with them in Dallas. Lots of variables; the service writer / manager, day of the week, time of the day, customer's attitude, etc. So we just need to consider that when we set it up.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The problem with trying it out is one of fairness.

I have no idea how we can eliminate unfair evaluations (in both directions) when very few owners ever have the opportunity to properly evaluate the work. Admittedly some work is easily judged. If a shop does some interior remodeling or replaces an older TV or audio system with a new one that work is right in front of the owner and almost every owner can judge fit and finish and how the new TV or sound system works.

To use an example of less easily evaluated work, what if the coach will not come up to ride height, but after turning it over to the mechanic it is returned and works properly? The repair may have been to replace an air bag that was the wrong size which might be a very good thing, or it might be the mechanic taking some stuff out of the bay to prove the coach was fine, it was just overloaded, or maybe the mechanic went to the engine driven compressor and increased the entire bus system air pressure substantially beyond the specified limits. In the last instance the mechanic looks like a genius but in fact he just made the bus owner a test pilot because nobody knows what the long term results of exceeding limits might be.

My spin is when the service is exceptionally good and it is proven to have been done correctly we need to post that. When it is really bad and the problems encountered are also documented and off the chart we need to post that. But I really don't think we need to post anything about normal levels and qualities of service since a lot of that type of post is typically subjective.

Silent in this discussion so far is the cost and how that impacts a report. Personally I don't care how much someone charges. My criteria for an evaluation is value for the dollar. I would be tickled to death to pay someone $125 an hour if they were efficient, outstanding in the quality of their work, and did everything they said they would do for the price they quoted, and then did stuff on their dime that they ran across and it just made sense to do. I would be all over that posting my pleasure. I personally witnessed Russell Coach eating some costs to do work on Michael Terry's coach because they knew it was the right thing to do. Michael correctly wrote a glowing report because he got not only everything he bargained for, but even more. That is a great example of documented work that exceeded the owner's expectations. I have seen Ben and Rick from Coach Worx also go beyond the call of duty with their efforts at POG rallies, something I am confident is how they run their business. Parliament did a fantastic upgrade on Rick DeSilva's coach. I cannot speak about whether the price was fair but the work quality I believe was exceptional. All of those things are great posts.

But the flip side is someone charging that amount who works slower than a mechanic at half the price and doesn't exceed the quality of the cheaper mechanic. Maybe the work is acceptable, but it doesn't justify a positive rating, or a bad rating. The mechanic who does the job for half the price and does it on time to the same quality however should get rave reviews, but since when should we rave about someone who does what they said they would do for the price they said. Isn't that what our expectations are? This is a complex issue and if we have posts, good and bad, how are we to properly and fairly rate the people being reviewed? How do we know it is not a personality conflict? How do we know what the owner thinks is great quality work is really that great?

I agree with Truk in that we need some of our service providers to jump in on this discussion. I think having witnessed some superior work I could create a list of people or businesses I would feel comfortable recommending, but I have dealt with and seen some who stubbed their toes, but not to the extent I would want to sign my name to a post trashing them. The ones who are off the chart lousy I will not hesitate to criticize, nor will I hesitate to suggest a service facility that is likely to do acceptable work is far too expensive for what they provide based on my own hands on experience.

[phorner]

How about simply a thumbs up or down regarding a service experience? Might take some of the subjective comments out leaving only a raw score.

Facilities with more thumbs up than down may be a safer bet. Eventually it will be easy to figure out which facilities provide more positive experiences than negative, realizing that no service facility is likely to please everyone every time..

[LarryB]

Good Idea. I think we are All capable of reading a posting and determine if it is a legitimate comment or not. I don't think it is important to know all the nomenclature of the repair, some folks don't care, but it is important that the complaint is repaired In Plain Sight, On Time, On Budget and the Shop/Tech took care of the Bus they were assigned to work on.

I didn't take my Bus to a reportedly Great Shop because when I looked around I didn't see any means of raising the Bus. Who will do a better job, the guy crawling around on the floor under the bus or the guy that stands under a raised bus and can see to inspect the under side? Are they going to do the job safely? I didn't like their procedures---doesn't mean they are a bad shop, it was just info I would have liked to have in advance.

[Pete]

Tom, I think your idea is a good one! I also think the majority of our group has the aptitude, and the ability, and the intelligence to post their experiences on this site for others to learn from. If someone does not agree...then don't read the post. I can't count the times I have witnessed the members post a disagreement with someones post, it does not mean that the person posting is wrong, it is their opinion/observation/experience and they should have a right to post as they see fit.

[phorner]

How about a standardized "report card" where several categories are established and each facility is rated along the same method. Results could be tabulated as an on-going log that could be down loaded or copied.

We could also have a fill-in-the-blank type of thing for essentials such as contact phone number, address, any specialties, etc. which could become a quick reference guide for those members wishing to patronize specific shops.

By the way, this is looking like work for somebody.... hey moderator!!!???!!!

[truk4u]

Paul would make a great Moderator!

[garyde]

If a person goes to one shop once and has a positive or negative experience its not going to help with any sort of rating. I have been going to prevost Mira Loma for about
4 1/2 years now so I have a longer view of their strenghts and weeknesses as it relates to me. The individual mechanic also will make a big difference .
So, be careful.