FATAL BUS ACCIDENT

[Jon Wehrenberg]

This was one of the headlines in our paper today.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2011/mar/13/police-investigate-drivers-story-nyc-bus-crash-kil/

The bus appears to have been an H3-45 and I can only guess at its speed. The bus was traveling fast enough on its wheels to run along 300 feet of guardrail, and when it layed over on its side it still had enough speed and energy so the light pole cut the bus like a knife from the windshield all the way back to the rear wheels at the level of the windows.

[BoaterAl]

If you google "New York Post bus accident" there is a video of the accident scene location.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Another link: http://galvestondailynews.com/ap/d5c51e/

This shows how the pole penetrated all the way from front to rear.

[dmatz]

According to their web site world wide tours ny, they run a fleet of Prevost. The site shows an H on the home page. Local news here in NY said the the box was sent to DC to be evaluated. I assume this is the DDEC. This will tell how fast it was going I assume.

[Mark3101]

According to their web site world wide tours ny, they run a fleet of Prevost. The site shows an H on the home page. Local news here in NY said the the box was sent to DC to be evaluated. I assume this is the DDEC. This will tell how fast it was going I assume.

I wonder about that. I have never seen what is in the DDEC in my bus, but have had lots of experience with Caterpillars ECM's in trucks and the ones we had (up to 2006) did NOT record real time, just peak speed and RPM. It also kept total miles and hours etc, but nothing like a real data recorder with up to the second recording. I wonder if charter operators have a different unit to do that??

[BoaterAl]

I have been following the story and one said there was a camera on board. Not stated if that was for traffic or passengers. Another question did it survive the crash ?

[Orren Zook]

Recent news reports and witness accounts seem to be leaning toward operator error (driver fatigue). Here's what they are checking in addition to witness interviews:
The NTSB will analyze three devices: a camera mounted in the bus facing the passengers; an engine control module, which may tell how fast the bus was going; and a GPS tracking device from the tractor-trailer.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

When I was a school board president we had our buses outfitted with what the drivers called a tattle tale.

It showed time, distance, speed, etc. It did not have GPS positioning as we have today, but by knowing the route anyone could interpret how fast the bus was going at any given time. On the only accident during my tenure we were able to determine a driver was doing 50 mph in a 35 mph zone just prior to laying the bus on its side. Today the dash cams such as the one I just installed in my bus show GPS positioning, time, speed, and records video of what is ahead of the bus in addition to a view of the interior. My guess is if this type of camera has been installed it will not onky show if the driver was nodding off, it will show if there really was a truck that passed and swerved into the bus as well as recording the entire accident including speeds.

Depending on the size of the memory card the dash cam can retain as little as the last 30 minutes up to many hours.

This device can either prove what the driver said or show his total guilt. If I were to guess I would say there had to be some considerable speed to provide the energy for the bus to slide along the guard rail for 300 feet, then lay down on its side sliding an unknown distance and then hit the pole with enough force to enable it to slice through the bus framework all the way back to the rear wheels. What puzzles me is when the bus first contacted the guard rail why the driver was not standing on the brakes to slow it down, and if he was standing on the brakes why he still had enough speed when the bus was on its side to do the damage that happened.

From 60 MPH we should be stopped, or close to stopped in around 300 feet.

[stevet903]

DDEC IV, V, and VI ECMs are enabled from the factory to record vehicle speed (mph), engine speed (rpm), brake (yes/no), clutch (yes/no), engine load (percent), throttle (percent), cruise (yes/no), and diagnostic code (yes/no). You need something called DDEC Reports which is part of the Detroit Diesel Diagnostic Link (DDDL) software to read this out.

Sample of a report: http://www.southeastcollision.com/pdf/ecm.pdf

More reading - http://www.ddcsn.com/cps/rde/xchg/ddcsn/hs/3902.htm
http://www.boster-kobayashi.com/Articles/redesign_articles/commercial_vehicle_data_retrieval.htm

[Will Garner]

Speed had to be at issue in this wreck. It happened in New York City in the South Bronx!

The pole that was struck was not a light pole from what I think I saw on the TV Newsreels. It appeared to be an upright pole supporting an overhead sign assembly. If that is so, the strength of the pole that was struck is many times greater than that of a street light pole.

It is tragic that 14 passenger souls departed in that crash and the driver survived?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I think the outcome would have been different if in fact the pole was a light pole. Had the pole broken away I am sure the pentration into the coach would have been minimal. In this instance, the pole did not yield and many people (15 as of today) lost their lives. I think if the chassis had not been penetrated this accident most of those would be alive.

[dmatz]

Breaking News

A luxury bus has crashed on the New Jersey Turnpike southbound in East Brunswick.*

[johnklopp]

Just read the data that can be collected on Steve’s link to the Detroit Diesel controls. I figured some stuff was collected but the extent of the data surprised me. There will be a factual event log generated and available for analysis by the authorities. Think the bus driver is going to the gray bar hotel.

On the positive side, it sounds like the ability to down load a lot of performance data and codes is available with a lap top computer and some software for the series 60 engines.

[garyde]

In California, where ever there is a Sign Post, Light Post, Post, or any other Freeway column or construct, there is always a guard rail, cement barrier, or similar, keeping autos, buses, & trucks etc. from crashing into them and causing such a horrific accident. If light poles are un protected, you can be sure they are designed to break away in a collision.
This has beenadobted in many states but apparently not in this area of the accident.
The collision in Paris which killed Princess Diana was in a underpass where all of the support columns were not proteced by guard rails. I've always thought about that being a sensless accident.

[GDeen]

Sounds like the driver has a very dubious history.....Bus Company will be in cross hairs for hiring him (rightfully so).

One of the articles I read said 2 delivery guys (UPS?) called police after he passed them going so fast it rocked their truck. Looking more and more like a high speed, lost control type of deal. Gruesome outcome where the driver by luck of the H design was below the intersection point of the sign post.