Getting info off the Forum

[gmcbuffalo]

Tuesday night I am at Prevost Mira Loma getting a Level 3 service Mini rally raffle winner) so I figured why not have them change out the tag axle air springs. Luis said as old as mine were I should first replace the front air springs. It appears that I still have the original Air Springs. So I went for it and would buy the others and replace them myself. The problem was what air bags to use, direct replacement would leave me with my current problem of raising the front end high enough to use Jon's stands. The ML Service guys had no idea about the issue of not being about to raise the front end with the direct replacement bags. It turned out I didn't have Mae West bags either. The guys at Prevosts were going by the books and it didn't sound right to me, I was frantic, and trying to remember what air springs was recommended got me frustrated even more. Who do I call for help, I didn't know the phone numbers of any West coast POGGERS, tried to find phone numbers on the POG site, no luck. Didn't want to call any Mid West or East coasters because of the hour of night, probably no phone numbers there either. The POG search using "Mae West" or "Air Springs" turned up with pages of unrelated posts. I was only able to find what I wanted by going to one of Jon's current posts, clicking on his name and going thru the pages of posts started by him until I found one dealing with Air Springs. I ended up getting Air Springs 630259 and I am happy with them. They are larger bags and take longer to fill if deflated, but they raise the coach up a good four inches above ride height with speed and ease. I ended up buying or getting 630104 for the tag and drive axles.

Summary
Prevost still doesn't know about our front end Air Spring problem.
POG Site search feature is of no help.

[garyde]

As I remember it, the Prevost parts dept. in their computer, has the wrong reference # for Air Bags of some older Coaches. After several poggers started talking , including Jon, they somehow arrived at what was the correct air bag to use. But owners of older coaches who start out with the wrong air bag on their coach will probably keep getting the wrong air bag when replacing them.
There is a thread regarding air bag replacement as well as several articles, one being by Mango Mike.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Greg, try 630259 for the fronts and tag.

I have 14000# on my steer axle and all it takes is about 100 PSI to bring my coach to ride height. I believe at one time Prevost was erroneously calling for a 630260 for the steer axle and I thik that is a drive axle air bag.

Check first with Prevost but I think that is a good set of numbers.

[michaeldterry]

Greg, try 630259 for the fronts and tag.

I have 14000# on my steer axle and all it takes is about 100 PSI to bring my coach to ride height. I believe at one time Prevost was erroneously calling for a 630260 for the steer axle and I thik that is a drive axle air bag.

Check first with Prevost but I think that is a good set of numbers.

Jon is correct, as usual, on the steer/tag axle air bag number. I recently had the airbags replaced on my 1995 XLV chassis and the part number for the steer and tag axle air springs was 630259. However, the drive axle air springs were P/N 630104 (from the invoice).

[truk4u]

Greg,

At the top of the page is a "Links" drop down menu. The last item in that drop down menu is "POG Member Resources" and that takes you to the various State pages that have addresses and phone numbers of all who signed up. If you get in a bind in the future, please don't hesitate to call me and I'll try to help get the information you need.

There appears to be a problem with the search function when I tried it this morning, so Skiffer will see this and check it out.

[gmcbuffalo]

Tom I remembered something about the resource page but just couldn't find it.

According to the parts people at ML Prevosts the tag and drives axles use the same bags on a 91 XL. When under the coach they don't look the same, the tags look taller than the drivers. Taking their word for it I came home with (6) 630104 in the bay for a future change out. I got the 630259's on the steer.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Greg,

They are more than likely correct. On 45 foot coaches like Michael's and mine the tag and steer share the same air bag. I think that is because the 45 footer has more rear overhang and thus loads the tag axle to a greater extent. If I recall on my 87 My tag and drive axle air bags carried about 4000 pounds less than I carry now which might be why the tag is different than ours.

[gmcbuffalo]

I hope so. Can these replacements be done without taking the wheels off? The Front drive axle bags look like the wheels have to come off because they are so high up under the coach.

[BrianE]

Greg, As we get on in years the past seems to be a blur: http://forum.prevostownersgroup.com/showthread.php?3168-Air-Springs-Revisited&highlight=

The front wheels do need to be removed and I recall that 2 jacks or blocks for the axle are needed. Also believe the top air fitting is difficult to reach and an elbow and extension pipe make future airbag replacements much easier.

Seems to me I went over the airbag info very carefully with the parts folks at ML and was assured the PN's would get revised. So much for assurances. Anybody remember Donovan? :p

[Jon Wehrenberg]

You can struggle with them from underneath, but the easiest and quickest way is to pull the outer drive wheel. You have to remove the front inner fender liner ahead of the drive axle and it is so much easier with the outer wheel removed.

I think the rear drive axle air bag comes out from beneath the bus as does the tag axle air bags

7903

This is a photo of Erioc and Debi's (Loc's) Angola and as you can see the fender liner is easier to get off with the wheel removed. The tag axle air bags look easier to remove from underneath, but there are a couple of fasteners more easily accessed from above. The rear drive axle air bag can come out in either direction.

I just put the bus on stands, pull all the wheels and then I have the option of getting the air bags from the outside or beneath. Just curious.........How much did Prevost charge to do the fronts? We have them down to a science because we cut the air line instead of fighting with the fitting and modifying the installation by adding a 4.5" 1/2" nipple to move the fitting toward the outside where it is accessible for future replacements. One hour per air bag and that includes removing and replacing the wheels.

[gmcbuffalo]

I paid for 6 hours @ 109/hr and they struggled with disconnecting the air lines. It was 1145 PM before they were done.
I was wonder if you could just cut the 90 deg fitting off the top of the bags since they replaced them anyway? Then use your extension idea.
Greg

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Greg,

This is something EVERY POG MEMBER needs to know and understand if they have a straight steer axle bus and need to get the air bags changed.

What ML charged is insane. They should know better and the tech needs training.

Here is the front air bag replacement procedure. Before starting get a 4.5" brass or copper nipple, 1/2" pipe size and a DOT 1/2" compression fitting to 1/2" female pipe thread. This is to modify how the air line is connected to the air bag fitting.

Remove the wheel. The bus needs to be fully raised on the suspension and supported, and the axle needs to be raised enough for the wheel to be removed.

As soon as the wheel is off, lower the axle and let it hang. Reach in and cut the air hose close to the fitting at the top of the air bag. Now you can stick a wrench on the elbow fitting on top of the air bag and remove it. That should take less than 5 minutes. Remove 3 nuts using a 3/4 inch wrench (open end on top, socket on the bottom 2. Remove the large nut from the remaining fitting (1 1/8 open end I think)

Now just compress the air bag and pull it out. By now you should have a total of 30 minutes involved, including removal of the wheel.

Place the new air bag in position. Secure it with the top nuts, and jack the axle up a little to be able to fasten the bottom nuts. Tighten all nuts.

Put thread dope on the elbow and install it in the top air bag fitting. Assemble the nipple to the DOT fitting using pipe dope, hand tight, put pipe dope on the other end of the nipple and thread it into the elbow. Tighten the nipple assembly by wrenching on the DOT fitting. When tight, swing the air hose into position, cut to the length needed and insert it into the compression end of the DOT fitting and tighten.

Replace the wheel and remove the jack.

Total time one hour. I called prevost engineering about this slight modification adding the nipple and they said it was OK and that they were doing that on later model coaches so they know how to cut the time down dramatically. As an owner, when you take your coach to Volvo they should be doing repairs in the most efficient manner instead of ripping you off.

Greg, if you want to print out what I described above, go ahead and use it to argue you should have only been charged for two hours of labor. I doubt if the Volvo folks will willingly return some of your money and undoubtedly think we are a bunch of whiners, but they need to get back to being Prevost, instead of Volvo.

[garyde]

When you go to Prevost, always ask up front what the man hours are going to be. They will have a labor book for R & R for many different parts on your bus. Now, if you want to dispute those labor hours up front based upon personal experience or informed information , you have a negotiating base line.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Their labor hours for tasks such as the steer axle air bags are bogus.

If I am correct they want at least $500 per air bag replacement and that includes the cost of the air bags which I think are less than $150. Michael knows the latest prices. So that leaves $350 for labor. I admit I have it easy to do work like changing air bags because I have a 1" impact wrench to quickly remove the wheel nuts, I have stands and all sorts of jacks. I have a good selection of tools and a good place to do the work, including a pit to work on things best accessed from the underside. But so does Volvo. And unlike me who does an occasional changeout of air bags their mechanics should be so experienced they should make me look like an amatuer.

But nobody at Volvo gives a damn about the customer or the customer's wallet. So as a result I am and have been encouraging POG members to avoid going to Volvo except as a last resort and instead use our sponsors for work such as this. I shouldn't let this get under my skin, but I remember when Prevost was one of two companies that I used as a benchmark about how a customer should be treated. Those days are clearly gone. I wish there was a way we could communicate with Volvo to make them understand their labor costs are unimportant if we get the efficiencies and knowledge that those costs should encompass. Greg got neither.

[michaeldterry]

Michael knows the latest prices.

The airbag prices for my model/vintage bus as of 10/26/2010 were:

P/N 630259 (Steer & Tag Axles) = $128.13 each - Need 4 - extension = $512.52
P/N 630104 (Drive Axle...........) = $131.14 each - Need 4 - extension = $525.76

Prices shown do not include labor.

[JIM CHALOUPKA]

Their labor hours for tasks such as the steer axle air bags are bogus.

If I am correct they want at least $500 per air bag replacement and that includes the cost of the air bags which I think are less than $150. Michael knows the latest prices. So that leaves $350 for labor. I admit I have it easy to do work like changing air bags because I have a 1" impact wrench to quickly remove the wheel nuts, I have stands and all sorts of jacks. I have a good selection of tools and a good place to do the work, including a pit to work on things best accessed from the underside. But so does Volvo. And unlike me who does an occasional changeout of air bags their mechanics should be so experienced they should make me look like an amatuer.

But nobody at Volvo gives a damn about the customer or the customer's wallet. So as a result I am and have been encouraging POG members to avoid going to Volvo except as a last resort and instead use our sponsors for work such as this. I shouldn't let this get under my skin, but I remember when Prevost was one of two companies that I used as a benchmark about how a customer should be treated. Those days are clearly gone. I wish there was a way we could communicate with Volvo to make them understand their labor costs are unimportant if we get the efficiencies and knowledge that those costs should encompass. Greg got neither.

Well,...... I thought Prevost was one of our sponsors too.

JIM

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The name Prevost might be on our website as a sponsor, but the attitude is Volvo.

[gmcbuffalo]

I did buy the tag bags on the way to Indio and was going to do them at home. after winning the Level 3 service I was going to have them install them. Realizing I had 20 year old bags I was easily talked into replacing the front bags, figuring that if the rear bag blow on California's I-5 I could still move, something I knew I couldn't do with a front blowout. So I turned my back and let them have my wallet. I did buy four bags for the drive axle at 20% out for a home project. They have a special on bags this month at 20% off.

Jon is the nipple extension used on the drive and tag bags?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

The installation of the rear air bags does not require any changes since they are easy to access and replace. The key to replacing those is getting at them such as removing the fender liner.