I made a mistake

[Sawbonz]

I knew I shouldn't have done it! I went to the Tampa RV Supershow. There I ran into a really nice salesman from Millennium, where we will visit in a couple weeks to view the factory.

I still haven't driven one yet, but assuming they are as nice as my Monaco Dynasty, I would like to be well informed as to what a Prevost is worth. Seriously, i doubt I will buy a new one at $1.8M, but maybe they have a couple year old used model sitting around...

How does one get pricing? How do MSRP and real world prices compare?

If we were to buy a used one from elsewhere, how do these converters tend to react to requests to do upgrades?

Thanks all!

[ajducote]

Sawbonz,

Welcome to the group. I will give a few short answers to your questions. All the experts will chime in later.

"but assuming they are as nice as my Monaco Dynasty"
Without a doubt any Prevost conversion will be "nicer" then a Dynasty. I traded my Dynasty for a 1999 Royale 6 years ago and never looked back.

"I would like to be well informed as to what a Prevost is worth"
Very SHORT Answer, what you will pay and what the seller will let it go for. I will add some links at the bottom of this email that will take you to some of our sponsor sites that will at least give you an idea of the asking prices. Be Warned, do NOT drive a Prevost if you really do not want to spend money on one. Once you drive one, you will be hooked!

"how do these converters tend to react to requests to do upgrades?"
Very well, a big part of their business is doing upgrades.

Links to look at that should keep you busy until everyone else chimes in.

http://www.luxurycoachbrokers.com/

http://www.californiacoachcompany.com/inventory_avail.asp

http://www.prevost-stuff.com/coaches/used_coaches.htm

http://www.millenniumluxurycoachesblog.com/inventory/

All our sponsors are on this page:

http://forum.prevostownersgroup.com/



I still haven't driven one yet, but assuming they are as nice as my Monaco Dynasty, I would like to be well informed as to what a Prevost is worth. Seriously, i doubt I will buy a new one at $1.8M, but maybe they have a couple year old used model sitting around...

How does one get pricing? How do MSRP and real world prices compare?

If we were to buy a used one from elsewhere, how do these converters tend to react to requests to do upgrades?

Thanks all!

[Jon Wehrenberg]

First of all Sawbonz, welcome to the asylum. If you have read the posts here you will quickly recognize that this forum is populated with experts who will answer all of your questions. It is unlikely however the answers will be correct, but you will have fun.

We are concerned about you however, when you mention that you assume a Prevost conversion is as nice as your Monaco Dynasty. That indicates you are either pulling our chain or have never driven a Prevost.

At one time pricing actually made sense. Then the economy went to Hell and with distress sales, repo's, and lack of financing the buyers who could buy a Prevost conversion were in control and the prices turned out to be all over the map. A lot of the pricing was so low it defied description.

Today it is my belief pricing is stabilizing, and as a buyer you just have to establish what you are prepared to spend and then try to find the coach within that price range that best suits you. As you establish your budget you have to decide not only what you are going to spend to acquire the coach, but if you are going to set aside money to do any redecorating or for updating the mechanicals. If you intend to buy a coach with thoughts of updating it, it might be best to consider if you are going to do the work or hire it, and if you hire it make sure you have budgeted sufficiently for that.

In Brooksville one of our members has not only a nice coach, but a lot of knowledge about coaches and you may wish to consider contacting him. He will post here and introduce himself.

I would strongly urge you to use our sponsors in your quest. I am not trying to push them on you, but suggesting that because of the knowledge and experience they have and the help they can give you in your efforts to find a coach. Florida has a lot of our sponsors, but you may wish your search to be nationwide.

As to converters doing upgrades, they all will do them. In almost every case any converter will work on any other converter's product.

I can offer some free advice however. (Worth every cent you pay for it.) As a new Prevost owner get the best coach you can for the money you budget, and focus on the mechanicals. If the decor or colors are not quite what you want but acceptable to you, live with the coach and its decor until you have some experience under your belt. By having a coach in great mechanical condition you will avoid the "deer in the headlights" syndrome a lot of new owners experience when they realize there are issues that they must address, especially if they turn up when they are on the road. Far too often we read posts from new owners who put colors and decor ahead of mechanical condition and they realize their dream is quickly turning into a nightmare. Our coaches are strong, reliable, well built machines, but like anything mechanical they need to be serviced and maintained or they become just as troubling as any other vehicle. Don't start out with a mechanical wreck.

As you become comfortable with the coach and this lifestyle owning a Prevost provides, then you can decide how and when and for how much you will redo the colors, decor, furniture, etc. Or as a newbie you can spend an enormous amount of money up front and realize later there are a lot of ways to accomplish your goals often very inexpensively.

[Sawbonz]

"but assuming they are as nice as my Monaco Dynasty"
Without a doubt any Prevost conversion will be "nicer" then a Dynasty. I traded my Dynasty for a 1999 Royale 6 years ago and never looked back.

"I would like to be well informed as to what a Prevost is worth"
Very SHORT Answer, what you will pay and what the seller will let it go for. I will add some links at the bottom of this email that will take you to some of our sponsor sites that will at least give you an idea of the asking prices. Be Warned, do NOT drive a Prevost if you really do not want to spend money on one. Once you drive one, you will be hooked!

Thank you, Andre.

By "nice" I meant as nice to drive. My Dynasty is a tag and actually fun to drive. The biggest loss I see from moving up is losing my VORAD system....it's incredible!

I have looked through many of those sites, and thank you. While I know it is worth what someone is willing to pay, I know that somehow, somewhere, there has to be a reasonable starting point. The biggest issue I see is _massive_ depreciation in the first few years. I've seen as much as 50% in 3 years.

[Sawbonz]

Thanks for the welcome, Jon. Every asylum can use another inmate!

I have NOT driven a Prevost yet, but did mention that in my OP. We were at the show, and they weren't about to let anyone drive anything there.

Prepared to spend. Yes, that is the question. I can certainly spend more than I am willing to, but want to keep it reasonable. Mid 6-figures would be reasonable to me. Now what I want to figure out is what I can get for that, should my test drive at the converter go well and I don't decide to splurge and buy new. Are there rules of thumb on years, models, converters?

I am absolutely interested in getting the best mechanically sound coach possible. Not looking at paint reminds me of house shopping with my wife. Many times I gave her that advice! Assuming I got a coach 5-6 years old, the main upgrading I would be interested in is a basement bedroom. We discussed this with the salesman at the show and found it a very interesting proposition. We have two kids who will be willing to fight over it.

The last line of your post is what I am most afraid of, which is why I am here! Thanks for the response so far. I look forward to the next.

[ajducote]

Karl (Sawbonz),

If you have the time to do it, we are having a mini-rally on 4,5 and 6 Feb at Pt. St. Lucie Outdoor resorts. You could get a lot of questions answered there. And we would love giving you advice on spending your money.

See this thread for information on the mini-rally.

http://forum.prevostownersgroup.com/showthread.php?5273-Florida-Mini-Rally

[Sawbonz]

That sounds like fun, but we have a volleyball tournament that weekend.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Thanks for the welcome, Jon. Every asylum can use another inmate!

I have NOT driven a Prevost yet, but did mention that in my OP. We were at the show, and they weren't about to let anyone drive anything there.

Prepared to spend. Yes, that is the question. I can certainly spend more than I am willing to, but want to keep it reasonable. Mid 6-figures would be reasonable to me. Now what I want to figure out is what I can get for that, should my test drive at the converter go well and I don't decide to splurge and buy new. Are there rules of thumb on years, models, converters?

I am absolutely interested in getting the best mechanically sound coach possible. Not looking at paint reminds me of house shopping with my wife. Many times I gave her that advice! Assuming I got a coach 5-6 years old, the main upgrading I would be interested in is a basement bedroom. We discussed this with the salesman at the show and found it a very interesting proposition. We have two kids who will be willing to fight over it.

The last line of your post is what I am most afraid of, which is why I am here! Thanks for the response so far. I look forward to the next.

For mid 6 figures you are going to get a lot of coach and a fairly new one. A quick trip through the various sites listing Prevost coaches for sale will show you that.

So that being said, you now have a lot of work ahead of you. You and your family have to decide on the things that are important to you. First you have to define how the coach will be used. Will you spend a lot of time on the road, or parked? Will you be hooked up to shore power and other utilities or will you dry camp? Where will you be traveling? How many will be on board?

Then you have to decide what features work best for your use of the coach. Private toilet or open plan? Separate sleeping areas, both with access to the toilet or no? Slides? Over the road AC? Etc. Read all the posts on this site to get a sense of the importance of the various ways converters design a coach. Listen to the salesmen, but keep in mind every single one will sell you what is on their lot. You have to sort out the fact from fiction.

If I were to give you any advice it would be to rethink the basement bedroom. Any converter can create one, but to start with give some thought to how much space you give up for storage of stuff. The importance of that relates back to how you use your coach. I don't know of a single owner that has ever said they have too much bay space. I would look for the more conventional (but rare) bunk coach that can be converted back to closets or a space for a washer and dryer when you no longer have the need.

From a purely mechanical perspective a basement bedroom presents some serious design issues, not the least of which is access from the house made more complicated by considerations such as other mechanicals interfering with the access hatch location. That might make a non slide coach a more serious candidate due to the slide having the need to occupy bay ceiling space for mechanicals. Further, it might make some conversions more practical due to the need for heat and air.

[jack14r]

I think that there are some important chassis features that you should consider,the 2004 shells have 365 tires on the steering and tag axles,the steering axle is rated at 18,000 Lbs instead of 17,200 lbs. also the gross is 54,500 verses 51,500 lbs.It is also important to know how to read the year code in the serial number,(any salesman can show you where it is) count 8 digits from the end of the serial and that is the year of the shell.If that number is a 4 then the shell was manufactured as a 2004 and the conversion should be a 2005,do not let a salesman sell you a coach that is more than 1 year different from the shell unless it is priced accordingly.Also Prevost has constantly updated their slides and the 2004 shells have the next to last update,the 2007 have the "no pin slides"and are still the latest series.

[garyde]

So much to learn and so little time! The one thing I can suggest is to hang around a while ask questions and do your research. There are many choices of convertors and many very good used coaches out there. So, take your time and enjoy the journey.

[Alan__]

Also, some conversions have Vorad--think code M. Don't know how many they made but I have it and agree to its value.

Good luck on your search.

[Sawbonz]

For mid 6 figures you are going to get a lot of coach and a fairly new one. A quick trip through the various sites listing Prevost coaches for sale will show you that.

So that being said, you now have a lot of work ahead of you. You and your family have to decide on the things that are important to you. First you have to define how the coach will be used. Will you spend a lot of time on the road, or parked? Will you be hooked up to shore power and other utilities or will you dry camp? Where will you be traveling? How many will be on board?

Then you have to decide what features work best for your use of the coach. Private toilet or open plan? Separate sleeping areas, both with access to the toilet or no? Slides? Over the road AC? Etc. Read all the posts on this site to get a sense of the importance of the various ways converters design a coach. Listen to the salesmen, but keep in mind every single one will sell you what is on their lot. You have to sort out the fact from fiction.

If I were to give you any advice it would be to rethink the basement bedroom. Any converter can create one, but to start with give some thought to how much space you give up for storage of stuff. The importance of that relates back to how you use your coach. I don't know of a single owner that has ever said they have too much bay space. I would look for the more conventional (but rare) bunk coach that can be converted back to closets or a space for a washer and dryer when you no longer have the need.

From a purely mechanical perspective a basement bedroom presents some serious design issues, not the least of which is access from the house made more complicated by considerations such as other mechanicals interfering with the access hatch location. That might make a non slide coach a more serious candidate due to the slide having the need to occupy bay ceiling space for mechanicals. Further, it might make some conversions more practical due to the need for heat and air.

Good advice. If history is to be my guide, we will only get out 5-6 times per year. We are business owners, and tied to the area most of the time. We do not dry camp, but being able to is nice. You never know when you may sleep in a rest area! That said, I am not afraid to use the generator, and typically travel with full fresh water.

We have 4 on board now, but are only 3 years from college for one kid. That means, to me, washer and dryer are required. We've always had enough storage as it is, and with an H3-45 the capacity is HUGE. This makes me think that losing one bay for the time when the kids are with us is not a bad compromise. When number two leaves, we change it back, sell everything we own, and full-time.

[Sawbonz]

I think that there are some important chassis features that you should consider,the 2004 shells have 365 tires on the steering and tag axles,the steering axle is rated at 18,000 Lbs instead of 17,200 lbs. also the gross is 54,500 verses 51,500 lbs.It is also important to know how to read the year code in the serial number,(any salesman can show you where it is) count 8 digits from the end of the serial and that is the year of the shell.If that number is a 4 then the shell was manufactured as a 2004 and the conversion should be a 2005,do not let a salesman sell you a coach that is more than 1 year different from the shell unless it is priced accordingly.Also Prevost has constantly updated their slides and the 2004 shells have the next to last update,the 2007 have the "no pin slides"and are still the latest series.

Excellent, jack14r! Sooooooo, now I need an explanation of what a 365 tire is and how it compares to whatever else there is. I understand the value of an increase in gross, though I still wonder if I will need it. I guess it depends on how crazy the converter got with the granite and glass!

Then you mentioned "priced accordingly". I am still looking for advice on how to know this other than seeing what people are asking and going from there. Speaking with a lender yesterday, they decided that they couldn't use NADA and would instead just try to find 3 others with similar prices to verify value for the loan. Sounds a lot like real estate, except that real estate sales are available for comparison instead of just listing values.

[Sawbonz]

So much to learn and so little time! The one thing I can suggest is to hang around a while ask questions and do your research. There are many choices of convertors and many very good used coaches out there. So, take your time and enjoy the journey.

So far, so fun! I hope that we can take a little longer to do this than we did to buy the Monaco, just to make sure we get the best we can. It also will give me a chance to save some $ for a down payment!

[Sawbonz]

Also, some conversions have Vorad--think code M. Don't know how many they made but I have it and agree to its value.

Good luck on your search.

Where does one find this code?

[jack14r]

The 365/70R22.5 tire is rated at a maximum carrying capacity of10,500 LBS,the 315/80R22.5 has a max rating of 9090 LBS.If the converter is trying to sell you a coach that is called an 06 but it is a 2004 shell I would value it as an 05 because if you ever want to sell or trade it that is what it actually is.There is a used coach for sell by a used dealer in Florida that is titled as an 07 but it has a 2003 shell,if someone buys it and does not understand the date in the serial number they will be surprised when they decide to sell.There are some converters that have been guilty of not titling a conversion until it has been purchased,therefore the title can be 2-4 years newer than the actual shell.

[Sawbonz]

The 365/70R22.5 tire is rated at a maximum carrying capacity of10,500 LBS,the 315/80R22.5 has a max rating of 9090 LBS.If the converter is trying to sell you a coach that is called an 06 but it is a 2004 shell I would value it as an 05 because if you ever want to sell or trade it that is what it actually is.There is a used coach for sell by a used dealer in Florida that is titled as an 07 but it has a 2003 shell,if someone buys it and does not understand the date in the serial number they will be surprised when they decide to sell.There are some converters that have been guilty of not titling a conversion until it has been purchased,therefore the title can be 2-4 years newer than the actual shell.
Thanks, clear as day! That is also NOT something I would have thought of on my own. I did have a converter at the show tell me about another company that had a lot of left over shells, and this is probably what would happen...

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Be very cautious when dealing with salespeople that have to talk about their competition. I don't care if they are talking about someone owning an inventory of shells, or discussing the competitor's features of lack of them. Listen carefully as the salespeople tell you about their features and be prepared to ask a lot of questions.

Anytime a salesman talks bad about his competitors or even makes snide remarks in my opinion he doesn't have much good to say about the product he is selling.

There is a lot of ball breaking on this site about converters. We love jerking each other around. (I of course don't participate, but others do.) The bottom line is every conversion is good. Every converter has strengths and weaknesses, but I am not aware of any conversions you should be afraid of considering. Having said that you have to identify what is important to you in a coach and focus on those converters who produce the bus that is closest to your needs. The more people you talk to, the more questions you ask and the more coaches you go to see the better you will be as a buyer. When you find the right coach it is likely you will know it is the coach for you as soon as you go up the steps.

Some features that are important to you may only be found on coaches produced by one or two converters. That is going to sharpen your focus and make you a much better informed buyer if you take the time to learn all you can about those conversions.

As a two time buyer and hardly an expert we ended up with two coaches that have been exceptional for our needs. The first was because we were lucky. The current one is because we knew clearly what we wanted. As a result both our coaches were "keepers" and we couldn't be happier. We tend to keep our "stuff". As a result I am more likely to pay a little more if necessary to get as close to what we want as possible. Others like to trade often and then it becomes important to be extremely price conscious because trading is a huge expense due to depreciation. Buying a Prevost is a complex job and a lot of factors must be considered.

[merle&louise]

Karl & family, welcome to POG. One of your questions was how you can determine fair market value. I look at eBay and watch the bidding. I also look at the "Buy it Now" price, that of course tells you what seller's bottom line is. Record these amounts in a journal noting decreases in BUY IT NOW prices for a given coach. Also, record the brands that are selling! This will give you an idea of what the market perceives as fair market value. You will learn to make adjustments for age, converter, mileage, and curb appeal.

To start you off:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-Prevost-Country-Coach-XLII-Double-Slide-Buy-Now-/180610422238?pt=RVs_Campers&hash=item2a0d3855de

A 1999 Marathon just sold for $159,900 it had 148,000 miles and neutral colors inside and outside



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260722609509&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Also, I call sellers who have recently sold their buses (RVOnline.com, prevost-stuff.com, etc.) and talk to them. Occasionally they will tell you what their selling price was - record it in your journal. Pretty soon you will have a good idea of what buses are worth in today's market.

[Sawbonz]

There is a lot of ball breaking on this site about converters. We love jerking each other around. (I of course don't participate, but others do.)

That's MY kind of line!

I may start a war by asking this question if POG is anything like rv.net, and you already partially answered, but is there a "ranking" of converters as it pertains to quality? I know you are a Liberty guy, so you will understand the salesman I spoke with there today telling me that they have the "best quality" of any.

[Sawbonz]

Great ideas, Tuga. Funny enough, that first one you linked to I just got done looking at online. I will also start looking at RVOnline.com.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

That's MY kind of line!

I may start a war by asking this question if POG is anything like rv.net, and you already partially answered, but is there a "ranking" of converters as it pertains to quality? I know you are a Liberty guy, so you will understand the salesman I spoke with there today telling me that they have the "best quality" of any.


Well Karl, since you twisted my arm I have no choice but to tell you Liberty is the best.

But all kidding aside only you can define the best. I have very strong reasons for feeling a Libery is best but they are based on what we want in a coach and may not be at all important to you. But to really play with your head I also think our vintage of rivet coach represents the best of the best and later model coaches (XLII) are not examples of ever improving conversions but are actually a step backwards.

Undoubtedly others are going to disagree proving what is "best" is as viewed by each person.

[jack14r]

Karl,I think that you will make a real mistake if you don't look at every converter,you will also learn what you might want and what is important to you and your family.

[Sawbonz]

We have plans to visit Millennium, Marathon is only a few miles from our house, and we will probably visit Liberty too. Hopefully by then we will be close to making a decision.

So, Jon, what do you look for that made the Liberty your best choice?

[Orren Zook]

Karl.

You're also only a few miles from Parliament Coach in Clearwater - you might want to add them to your list too.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Karl,

So, Jon, what do you look for that made the Liberty your best choice?

Since I previously spoke negatively about salesmen that speak bad of the products of other converters I will speak only of the positives I attribute to my coach and those of a similar vintage. Keep in mind certain of the positive attributes may not relate to all converters such as battery location or lack of power accessories.

The coach has riveted construction which allows easy removal and replacement of damaged panels. Body panels are availble from suppliers other than Prevost for economical replacement cost.
The coach has smaller windshields which can be replaced in about 1/2 hour and because of their height limit solar heating inside the coach. The windshields are often available for $150 or less
The coach has a solid front axle as opposed to independent front suspension minimizing maintenance while being very durable.
The coach has a lower weight than later models which reduces fuel consumption and allows the use of smaller tires at lower pressures.
The coach has 298 gallon fuel capacity reducing the need to visit truck stops and providing a practical range of 1800 to 1900 miles with reserves enabling fuel shopping.
The coach does not have power windows, shades, or awnings reducing complexity and need for repairs.
Coach batteries are all located where they are visible and easily accessible for checking and easy replacement.
The coach has an electrical system that can be diagnosed and serviced using simple tools and meters.
The side windows (like the windshield) are easily replacable.
The coach has a vintage of engine that provides an average fuel consumption of 7 to 8 MPG contributing to its range.
The shell configuration and conversions within the shell represent a long model run that was refined over decades and which has virtually no design issues.

[Sawbonz]

Ok, Parliament is on the list! Tomorrow morning is Marathon.

Thanks for the run down, Jon.

Now, off to peruse the other forums. Where to concentrate....

[Sawbonz]

We went to Marathon today..... There were two I liked- the 2007 h3-45 three slide (asking $945k), and an '04 XLII one slide (asking $450k). It was really like a 90% like to 60% like, if you can follow that. I just really like the big bays on the H, and the more modern the better. The Crestron is pretty neat, and the outside fixtures were impressive.

We drove the H3 for my first Prevost test drive ever. It was a nice drive. Not as much "sprint" as I expected given my experience with the 400 horse engine in my Monaco, but it did ok. I do think it would do better with another 100 ponies though! Other than that the drive was solid. There was some wind noise at the door that they intend to quiet up, but nothing terrible. They also said they will put new tires on it and replace the compressor that powered the doors among other things.

This thread did help with the one unit they showed us. It was the one they took to the Tampa show. It is billed as an '11, but they VIN tells me it is an '08! The story is that they sold the unit they were going to take to the show, then the one that was supposed to be the back up. Still they didn't seem to have any qualms about asking $1.2M for it! I guess I will wait until I get closer to a decision to check tire codes, but it is good to know about.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

I have zero experience with motorhomes. I have never driven one. So as a result I have no idea what your 0 to 60 times are or how fast you go in the 1/4 mile.

But I do know speeds in our buses is based on our senses. If you sit up high, and you cannot hear the engine it is probable you will grossly underestimate speed or acceleration. We all judge our speeds and acceleration by how fast the road slides beneath us and if we are sitting high the sensation of speed is diminished because of the distance we sit above the road. Likewise not hearing the engine also hides the fact our engine is really pulling us along.

But mechanically our buses are also not set up for acceleration but for economy if you want to call pushing 50,000 plus pounds down the highway an economy consideration. If you redo the test drive, but put the transmission into the non-default mode you will notice it hangs in gear longer and snaps off the shifts authoritatively rather than upshifting at 1400 or 1500. I don't know if the transmission pad is like mine on the newer coaches, but by pressing the mode button on mine I go into performance mode and will be able to raise the shift points to as much as 2100 significantly reducing the time to 60 or the 1/4 mile.

But since our buses are so great we drive slow to maximize the time we spend enjoying them.

[Sawbonz]

I should have foreseen that reply! I'm not concerned with top speed at all, or acceleration except when merging onto I75 while going uphill. Which is what I did.

[chtree]

Sawbonz

You can always add a middle of the road computer upgrade to the DD. It will raise Hp and Torque significantly. We did and we actually get better mileage as well as extra power. Our local mech recommended the Stienbauer chip as it is pre set. It seemed to have good reviews. Just another option with the DD:)


Good luck!

Chris

[Sawbonz]

Chris, any more details? Cost, difficulty, reasonable result expectations?

Thanks,

[chtree]

Sawbonz,

I believe the cost installed was 2700.00 . I'll look back and get actual for you. The results were very noticeable apprx. 1mpg increase in mileage when towing H-2 which I thought was OK. On the power issue getting on the on ramps was alot better for me with the new system. I was told by mech that there were other systems that could give as much as 40% more but he felt that the expected 20% from the Stienbauer would help enough without overstressing engine and drivetrain components. If you drive safely the extra power in the right sitiuations could help. I'm still a novice at this but I'm glad that we added this to our coach. We have an 04 H345 Vantare which we really like. You and you family are sure to know the coach for you when you step into it then drive it.

Chris :-)

[garyde]

What does Detroit Diesel recommend? Are they in agreement on these types of upgrades? What about Allison?
On several previous RV's I owned I upgraded to BANKS System which increases upfront torque but is not sanctioned by the engine manufacturers.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Am I alone in wondering how a modification can increase power and mileage and not be embraced by Detroit?

[chtree]

We've had it for a year now, and I like what it has done for mpg and power. As far as the DD part someone would have to inquire with a DD rep or shop and get their opinion.

Chris

[chtree]

Jon

I keep forgetting to ask. Where in Ny were you from? We are not far from Jamestown.

Chris

[Sawbonz]

Once I get a rig I will definitely look into this. On my F250 diesel I added a cold air intake, 4 inch stainless exhaust and a BullyDog chip and got enough power to smoke the tires and increased my mileage about 20%!

[truk4u]

I don't understand the need for an upgrade! I had two series 60's, they had plenty of power, good on fuel and were about as reliable as you can get. I've heard of folks having a catastrophic engine failure way out of warranty and DD stepped up and helped with the cost. Do you suppose they would be willing to offer that assistance to the engine that has been modified with chips or whatever? I don't think so.

[travelite]

I don't understand the need for an upgrade! I had two series 60's, they had plenty of power, good on fuel and were about as reliable as you can get. I've heard of folks having a catastrophic engine failure way out of warranty and DD stepped up and helped with the cost. Do you suppose they would be willing to offer that assistance to the engine that has been modified with chips or whatever? I don't think so.

I spoke with a DD service center manager and he recommended against reflashing my DDEC IV to go from 1550 ft-lb of torque to 1600 ft-lb. This is a DD upgrade. He was concerned that my Allison World 4060HD transmission may not be up to the task. Now, some of this may by CYA, but I too have to ask, if there's a simple fuel map reprogramming that increases fuel mileage by 15% I'd think DD would be all over it. Show me the numbers.... I'd like to see 7500 miles of cross country driving with actual gallons pumped and miles traveled. Skeptical... :)

[chtree]

I think more than anything it actually increases the electronic efficiency of the engine. The Stienbauer website had a lot of reviews from all around the world. I'm just a logger at heart and we always have to have a little more power when the chain hits the wood. :-) I'll keep you guys posted as time goes on.

Chris

[scott13]

Karl, Take your time and look at everything out there. There are some great deals on coaches but you need to check them all out. There are several good converters out there and even some that are not in business anymore made good conversions in there day, and there are still people out there that know the coaches as far as repair goes. It seems like the best deal shows up right after you buy. I was lucky enough to be able to hook up with the previous owner of my coach so when I have a problem I can call him. That is a great resource to have, he owned the coach for five years and really knew it inside and out. Remember a beautiful paint job overwhelms a guy but it can hide a lot. I went in them, under them, and through them. I made six trips to Florida from Iowa to look at coaches. That said I never wanted anything other than a Prevost and the first motorhome I have ever owed. I sure hope I find out that I like camping.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jon

I keep forgetting to ask. Where in Ny were you from? We are not far from Jamestown.

Chris

Panama, just west of Jamestown. Factory was at the Jamestown / Chautauqua County Airport.

I agree with Dave and his skepticism. Since I have a record of every single gallon of fuel ever put into my buses I will make a deal. Pay for the upgrade for my coach and in a year we will compare the results with my recorded history. If my mileage has gained as much as is being claimed I will pay for the upgrade and for the upgrade on your coach also.

As to the acceleration part, that's easy. We will pick a place to do a few timed runs and record the data. When the upgrade is installed we will repeat the runs on a day when the temperature is exactly the same as the previous tests.

Any takers?

[chtree]

Jon

I just check the mpg on dash. The mpg towing pre-module was 4.8 Pa to Fl , after 5.8 . As far as the pwer part like I said earlier I am a newbie still, but driving thru WV on 79 and 19 I noticed a difference. I'd like to wager but I'm not a bettin man:-). Jon we use Pat Kennedy for our Ins. guy for sawmill, he's in Jamestown at the old Erickson Swann Rolly bldg. Do you know him or Mike Latone? Mike has a Prevost and I believe he has something to do with the Prevost Prouds. Also, we've used Gene Cotter as a realtor in that area. How long have you been living in south?

Chris

[Sawbonz]

I sure hope I find out that I like camping.

Me Too! ;)

[truk4u]

Chris,

Please add a signature to your posts with your year and converter. Another upstate New Yorker here, we're from Brockport (nice in August).

[chtree]

I'll give the signature a try. I'm a little tech challenged.

Chris

[chtree]

I think my signature is set now?

[chtree]

Yep I think I got it

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Chris,

I don't recognize the name Pat kennedy, but know of the others. I flew Mike out to buy his first coach in Champaign IL. I left the snow belt in 2000 and at that time in Chautauqua County there were at least 5 of us with Prevosts.

[garyde]

I went to the Stienbauer website. I could not find anything about the DD 515. The information on the site regarding how the electronics work says that it works in parrallel with the engines computer more or less, not changing the settings but elongating some of them to paraphrase.
When I had a Monaco with a Cummins engine, Cummins changed my settings electronically . It helped a small amount for passing, etc. Then, Banks developed a electronic conversion product for that size of engine and I had that installed which helped acceleration. The only problem was, Cummins would no longer warrenty the engine.

[chtree]

Gary

I'll ask our mech where he got it I think it was from one of their regular suppliers. I couldn't find the DD 515 on the Steinbauer site either but that is whats on my box. I'll get all the details and info I can. I believe I'm out of warranty on mine because of age, we have about 55k on coach. The guy that hauls our logs has a 550cat and he uses the Pittsburgh Power module which has 7 settings that really can ramp you up but I think you could hurt your drivetrain with it. He specs his out extra heavy and even with that he typically only puts it on #3 if he has some big hills to pull on a particular job. You should visit their site it has a video of a Newell and you can plug in your engine and it will give you the specs on their product. If nothing its fun to watch the videos :-)

Chris

[chtree]

Jon

Do you know Steve Ford from up that way? I'm pretty sure he still has his Prevost. Also we bought some land from a Gary Linn. He has a sprinkler co up there somewhere in Jamestown.

Chris

[garyde]

The added accelleration and torque might be useful on Hills, on ramps, passing, etc. but its 50,000 lbs of weight I have to stop as well. Most of us don't put enough miles on our Coach to have the purchase price pay for itself over 3 years for the added mileage.
Lets say I run 5000 miles per year. At 5000 miles at 7 miles a gallon , which I average now, is about 714 gallons. At $3.30 per gal. = $2356.00
At 8 MPG / 5000 =625 gal. x $3.30 = $2062.50
The difference is only $294.00 per year.

The cost of the unit is approx. $2350.00 before tax.

So if the unit last more than 8 years it will pay for itself. It only has a 3 year warrenty.

For those who run 15000 to 20000 miles a year, and they are a small group, the savings would pay of in 3 to 4 years. As fuel prices increase, so would the incremental savings.
Also, how you drive your coach would also play a part. If you live in country with a lot of hills it might be more useful.

Anyway, I had a little too much time on my hands today so I thought I would go thru the numbers.

[Prevost1111]

I am now enjoying my second Prevost and i can say since owning a Prevost i have never had an occurance that i needed more power or more accelaration and i have never been worried about 0 to 60. Maybe i just go too slow. Have fun finding your first Prevost that is all part of the journey. We all have our own stories and experiences in buying our toy but my suggestions are don't buy new unless you just love to throw money at people you don't know. Try to buy direct from an owner or at least get to know the prior owner. In my opinion you have zero upside buying a used unit from a converter unless it just happpens to be the best deal. Good luck

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Jon

Do you know Steve Ford from up that way? I'm pretty sure he still has his Prevost. Also we bought some land from a Gary Linn. He has a sprinkler co up there somewhere in Jamestown.

Chris

Don't know Steve Ford. Do know Gary. After I fired an accountant for embezzling, he hired the guy without checking with me. He got ripped off to the tune of 6 figures.

[chtree]

Jon

Wow! thats not good. He purchased a sawmill and large quantity of land. We bought a piece that he was getting rid of. After talking to him it sounds like he is into several different ventures.

Chris

[chtree]

Gary

I dont drive any faster, and I absolutely agree about stopping. I always maintain a more than adequate following distance. I'm not in a hurry but in Va and WV its nice to have. Economically feasible? I had a friend tell me once if you think about it long and hard enough you could economically justify any purchase:-) ( the coach itself :-) ). I guess we are having fun so its somewhat justified.

Chris

[Sawbonz]

I like your math garyde. It is a good way of looking at it.

[Sawbonz]

Yesssss, but....... Buying from the owner means that I have to figger out what to do with my unit too. I don't want the hassle of working with the public, many of whom are just looky-loos.

[Jon Wehrenberg]

Amen to that Karl.

I have been trying to sell my plane and there are times I just want to choke the fools.

Our very own Truk has done a fair bit of trading and perhaps he can either provide you with a shoulder to cry on and give some advice, or he can reveal his secrets to buying low and selling high.

[truk4u]

Keep the faith boy's, there's a butt for every saddle!

[Sawbonz]

Amen to that Karl.

I have been trying to sell my plane and there are times I just want to choke the fools.

Our very own Truk has done a fair bit of trading and perhaps he can either provide you with a shoulder to cry on and give some advice, or he can reveal his secrets to buying low and selling high.

Woo hoo! I got Jon's approval (I think)! ;)

I remember selling my plane. It was a bittersweet day. The first guy that looked at it bought it. Of course, that was the end of flying.

[garyde]

Hi Karl. The larger Convertor companies will only buy your Monaco at wholesale prices whatever that is now a days. Make sure to leave out any talk about a trade in . Make a deal on a new coach based upon the Coach itself and its value.
I did have a little luck selling my Country Coach on consignment rather than trading it in but it took 8 months and it was just a little higher than wholesale. its difficult and best left to pros.
Steve Bennett from California coach sold it for me.

[Sawbonz]

The other thing to consider is if you are upside down in it, like I am. I wish I could pay cash for the new one, but I have to do it the old fashioned way, then roll the negative equity into a new loan.

[truk4u]

Karl,

If you haven't already, you should talk to Ken Robertson, one of our Sponsors, and if anyone can put a deal together, he can. Since he's in Clearwater, he's close to you.

[Sawbonz]

Who is he with?

[Jon Wehrenberg]

http://www.luxurycoachbrokers.com/

[Seabyrd]

My advise is simple Go Very Slow and shop alot It is more fun looking than writing a check No reason to buy new unless you enjoy big writeoffs Visit Google and Ebay and Phil Cooper and many others Your best buy is probably 2005 to 2007 models Two Slides are enough Best advice is to sell your coach first and when you do go through a dealer to utilize your tradein on a replacement coach Try to utilize it in your business or start a business using the motor home Buy something you can resell Do not buy funny colors or paint jobs nor ugly interiors unless you budget to change it Start now and see what you find Remember there are lots of good deals out there

[Gary Carmichael]

Karl, I was at Millennium a couple weeks ago. I was at Excaliber to get seal put in alternator so went down the street to see them and took the tour. They had a nice 2008 that was priced at around 900,000 said he would cut me a good deal, but I am a Liberty person would not change, when you look hard you will see the difference. I wondered about the weight with all the Granite and Marble floors, watched wiring installed on a new one very impressive! They only build 10 a year so the sales person said and they are taking orders for early 2013. Seems the high end stuff is selling pretty good. Good luck with your search!

[Sawbonz]

Thanks Larry and Gary. We like Millennium, and saw that coach there two weeks ago. We have to get the finances lined up first though...

I agree, 2005-07 seems like the sweet spot, but we are in no hurry. Looking is fun.

[Camc]

Hi Jon Wehrenberg (http://forum.prevostownersgroup.com/member.php?18-Jon-Wehrenberg),

I have read many of your topics that you have posted and can only say that they are great. I am pretty familiar on my 2008 Marathon coach, but I have acquired a lot of knowledge reading your messages on the forum. No doubt, you are very knowledgeable on your subjects.

Thanks,

Cam Colon